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Old Oct 18, 2010, 04:27 PM   #1
Gazebo
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Post City State Diplomacy Mod (Updated)





City-State Diplomacy Mod (CSD)



- Mission -

To give Civilization V a better, more realistic simulation of geopolitics via a new system of city-state diplomacy.


- Design Philosophy -

This mod is a complete overhaul of the city-state diplomacy system. It removes the 'Gifts of Gold' mechanic, introduces a new, unit-based system of influence, and adds many new city-state quests. This mod also greatly enhances the World Congress by adding additional means of gaining votes, new congress resolutions, and strategies for players that wish to use diplomacy to harm other players and benefit themselves.

Players are encouraged to build and use diplomatic units and/or complete city-state quests if they wish to earn influence. Because city-state diplomacy now requires production, time, and planning, players must actively and consciously strive to maintain good relations with city-states throughout the game. Furthermore, diplomatic units, being defenseless, are liable to capture or destruction if sent too far from safety, thus long-distance city-state diplomacy now utilizes a risk-reward system. In short, CSD brings geopolitics to CiV, thus forcing players to adapt to varied diplomatic situations with each new game.

All of the features of CSD, from diplomatic units to world congress resolutions, have been thoroughly tested for balance, compatibility and gameplay value. Every feature works, and CSD has been tested extensively for stability and performance. Of these features, the most exciting are CSD's tweaks and additions to the AI. The AI has been trained to utilize every new system in CSD, and will play a much smarter diplomatic game in and out of the World Congress. For example, the AI has been trained to spend its gold on buildings and units it needs, to compete for the favor of geographically significant city-states, and to use the new World Congress resolutions to either gain influence for itself, or to deny influence to other players. Do not be surprised if you see diplomatic units from many different civilizations criss-crossing the world, and your empire, in search of city-state allies!

- Screenshot Showcase -
Spoiler:


Example of Diplomatic Unit icon artwork.


Diplomatic Units as seen in-game.


Sample of Building icon artwork.


Sample of National Wonder icon artwork.



- This Mod Includes -

This mod includes 4 new diplomatic units, one new great person, one new specialist, one new improvement, two new diplomacy-centric buildings, six new national wonders, six world wonders (three used for WC projects), a modified Patronage tree, eight new world congress resolutions (and overhauls of all standard resolutions), nine new city-state quests and a modification of the AI's city-state diplomacy mechanic. There are also balance tweaks for religious beliefs, policies and civilization traits, as well as an intelligent system for AI gold purchasing of buildings and units. See the spoiler below for more details.

______________


______________

CSD-BNW Version 24 Contents:

1.) Gameplay Changes:
  • Diplomatic Units: Starting at Writing, players will be able to build Diplomatic Units in their cities. These units require Paper, a strategic resource that can only be acquired through trade with other civilizations, or through the construction of CSD buildings such as the Chancery. Once built, players must then move the Diplomatic Unit into the territory of the City-State they wish to influence, and then expend it. This consumes the unit, freeing up its Paper resource for you to build additional diplomatic units. This is now the only method, aside from quests or Spies, of gaining influence with a city-state.
  • United Nations: The World Congress no longer transitions into the United Nations naturally as a consequence of technology. In order to create the United Nations, and thus enable the Diplomatic Victory, players must first propose, and pass, the United Nations project (unlocks at Combined Arms). Completing the project will construct the United Nations wonder in the highest-producing civilization's capital, granting them important diplomatic bonuses and enabling the start of the United Nations WC session.
  • Diplomatic Victory: The Diplomatic Victory (now referred to as Global Hegemony in the game) does not naturally become available as in the base game. Now, players must have completed two international tasks first: the United Nations project must be completed, and a World Ideology must be active. If these two prerequisites are met, the Diplomatic Victory will become available. Players may disrupt this process if the current World Ideology is repealed.
  • Pioneers and Colonists: Settlers upgrade into advanced settlers during the mid and late periods of the game. These upgraded settlers build cities with larger starting populations, and a collection of basic buildings (such as granaries, or libraries) in order to jump-start new cities founded in the late-game. This is an optional feature, and can be disabled in the mod's Options.sql file.
  • City-State Quests: There are many new City-State quests available in CSD, all of which focus on elements of the game ignored by vanilla BNW (archaeological digs, tourism, etc.). If a player fails to complete a quest for a City-State (particularly a global quest, such as clearing a barbarian camp), that player will receive an influence penalty with the City-State. Lastly, two of the new quests – Barbarian Horde and Rebellion – grant no immediate benefit, but will punish players if failed.
  • AI Difficulty: I've set the AI's default handicap values to be more in line with the 'Prince' setting, and I've increased the % cost decrease for AI values as the goes along. So, if the AI's unit/building cost starts out at 100%, on Emperor difficulty it will cost them 65% of their actual cost by the end of the game. To offset these nerfs, when an AI reaches a regular intervals it will receive boosts to science, gold and happiness, as well as free units. Capital cities also start with higher base populations. These bonuses make the AI much more evenly competitive, allowing players to have access to early game wonders, but still have to compete in the late game This can be disabled in the options.sql file.


2.) The Diplomatic Units:
  • Emissary (unlocked at Writing); Costs 1 Paper.
    Promotion: Initiate– Grants 20 Influence from Diplomatic Missions.
  • Envoy (unlocked at Education); Costs 2 Paper.
    Promotion: Adept– Grants 30 Influence from Diplomatic Missions.
  • Diplomat (unlocked at Industrialization); Costs 3 Paper.
    Promotion: Professional– Grants 40 Influence from Diplomatic Missions.
  • Ambassador (unlocked at Atomic Theory); Costs 4 Paper.
    Promotion: Plenipotentiary– Grants 50 Influence from Diplomatic Missions.
  • Great Diplomat; Great Person.
    Promotion: Master Diplomat - Grants 75 Influence from Diplomatic Missions. This value scales as the game progresses. Can also build the Embassy in City-State lands, which grants +1 World Congress vote.

3.) The Buildings:
  • Chancery (unlocked at Civil Service) Increases Diplomatic Unit production speed and increases the amount of Influence received for Diplomatic Units built in the city. The Civil Servant specialist of this building offers a little Culture, Science and Gold, in exchange for Food and Production. The additional Production granted upon City growth makes it important to build this building early on to maximize the boost.
  • Wire Service (unlocked at Steam Power): Increases Diplomatic Unit production speed and increases the amount of Influence received for Diplomatic Units built in the city. The Civil Servant specialists of this building offer a little Culture, Science and Gold, in exchange for Food and Production. The additional Production granted upon City growth makes it important to build this building early on to maximize the boost.
  • Scrivener's Office (unlocked at Writing) This National Wonder is unique, in that players may build it in their Capital without any other prerequisites. The Scrivener's Office gives a small production boost when building diplomatic units in the capital, and one Paper resource. Build this building if you want to secure a city-state ally or two during the first few eras of the game.
  • Gutenberg Press (National Wonder - unlocked at Printing Press): This National Wonder cannot be built unless the civilization has a Chancery built in all of its cities. Build it to receive a production speed increase for Diplomatic Units in the city where it is built, increased movement and influence for all your Diplomatic Units and the ability to allow your Diplomatic Units to ignore terrain penalties.
  • Foreign Office (National Wonder - unlocked at Railroad): This National Wonder cannot be built unless the civilization has a Wire Service built in all of its cities. Build it to receive a production speed increase for Diplomatic Units in the city where it is built, increased movement and influence for all your Diplomatic Units and the ability to send your Diplomatic Units through rival territory without an Open Borders agreement.
  • International Finance Center (unlocked at Nuclear Fission) This National Wonder cannot be built unless the civilization has a Stock Exchange built in all of its cities. Build this national wonder to receive additional votes in the World Congress based on the number of Declaration of Friendships you currently have with other players. You will also receive a large boost to the Food and Gold output of the city where it is built. (Freedom only)
  • Hall of Honor (unlocked at Rocketry) This National Wonder cannot be built unless the civilization has a Military Academy built in all of its cities. Build this national wonder to receive additional votes in the World Congress based on the number of enemy Capitals you have conquered. You will also receive a large boost to the Tourism and Faith output of the city where it is built. (Autocracy Only)
  • Palace of Science and Culture (unlocked at Computers) This National Wonder cannot be built unless the civilization has a Public School built in all of its cities. Build this national wonder to receive additional votes in the World Congress based on the number of Research Agreements you currently have with other players. You will also receive a large boost to the Culture and Science output of the city where it is built. (Order Only)
  • Consulate (National Wonder - reward from United Nations Project): The Consulate gives its owner a slight edge in the World Congress by granting an additional Delegate. May only be built collaboratively through the World Congress.
  • Forum Romanum (World Wonder - unlocked at Mathematics): Build this world wonder to receive a permanent boost to your relations with city-states through better-trained Diplomatic Units. Provides a free Great Diplomat to send to nearby city-states.
  • Summer Palace (World Wonder - unlocked at Gunpowder): Build this wonder for your Diplomatic Units to be able to enter a rival's territory without an Open Borders agreement centuries before anyone else. Provides a free Chancery in the city in which it is built.
  • Grand Canal (World Wonder - reward from Treasure Fleet Project): Build this wonder to boost the strength and durability of your navy via the Treasure Fleet promotion, and to receive an additional trade route. May only be built collaboratively through the World Congress.
  • Crystal Palace (World Wonder - reward from World's Fair Project): Like its real-world counterpart, the Crystal Palace dabbles in a wide varitey of bonuses. Players with a large number of cities, and Factories, will benefit most from the Crystal Palace, however the additional Great Work slot is useful for any Civilization. May only be built collaboratively through the World Congress.
  • Olympic Village (World Wonder - reward from International Games Project): Combining the strengths of the Hotel, Stadium and Hermitage in one, the Olympic Village is a powerhouse of late-game culture. May only be built collaboratively through the World Congress.
  • United Nations (World Wonder - reward from United Nations Project): When paired with a high rate of Great Person production, the United Nations grants a significant boost to diplomatic power in the World Congress for its owner. It also provides an additional Delegate, and triggers a Golden Age. In addition to these immediate benefits, the construction of the United Nations triggers the start of the United Nations Special Session of the World Congress, which enables the Diplomatic Victory. May only be built collaboratively through the World Congress.

4.) Policies: Patronage Branch
  • Consulates: Resting point for Influence with all City-States is increased by 15. The Gutenberg Press boosts Gold production by 10%.
  • Philanthropy: Quantity of Resources gifted by City-States increased by 100%. Happiness from gifted Luxuries increased by 50%. Schools of Scribes produce 1 Happiness.
  • Cultural Diplomacy: Receive 1 Influence per turn with City-States with which you have Trade Routes. The Foreign Office produces +3 Culture.
  • Merchant Confederacy: +4 Gold for trade routes with City-States. 25% faster production of Great Diplomats.
  • Scholasticism: All City-States which are Allies provide a Science bonus equal to 25% of what they produce for themselves. Telephone Networks boost Science production by 10%.

5.) World Congress: New Resolutions
  • Enact Open Door Policy: All civilizations have their influence set at 40 with target city-state. Available with Economics.
  • Demand Sphere of Influence: Proposing civilization has their influence set at 150 with target city-state. Available with Industrialization.
  • Enforce Decolonization: Ally of target city-state has their influence reduced to 50. Available with Radio.
  • AAC (Aerospace Advisory Council): Gives a -25% production penalty when building SS parts, +25% gold cost for SS parts and +25% faith cost for engineers. Available at Rocketry.
  • Casus Belli: The world recognizes the need for justifiable war to resolve diplomatic disputes. While this resolution is active, unit maintenance costs are lowered by 15% Gold. Warmonger penalties for capturing cities and declaring war are greatly reduced, and Warmonger scores decay much more rapidly than normal.
  • Cold War: Ideological differences have pushed the world into a cold war, and economic and political factions are forming based on ideology alone. While this resolution is active, players may only make Trade Routes with civilizations that follow the same ideology, or with allied City-States. Furthermore, Influence levels with allied City-States do not decline. Available at Atomic Theory
  • Treasure Fleet: (Available at start of WC) - has the following tiers:

    a.) Bronze: Frigate and 300 points towards next Golden Age.
    b.) Silver: Admiral and 3 free maintenance for military units.
    c.) Gold: Grand Canal
  • Global Wargames: (unlocks at Replaceable Parts) has the following tiers:

    a.) Bronze: Infantry and 4 free maintenance for military units.
    b.) Silver: Great General appears near Capital and +4 Happiness.
    c.) Gold: +25% attack power for 30 turns.
  • United Nations: (unlocks at Combined Arms) has the following tiers:

    a.) Bronze: Receive a free Great Diplomat.
    b.) Silver: Receive an immediate boost of 25 Influence with all City-States. The Consulate National Wonder appears in Capital.
    c.) Gold: United Nations wonder appears in Capital.

6.) World Congress: Modified Resolutions
  • Sanctions (formerly Embargo X): No Trade Routes can be established with the sanctioned player(s). Warmonger penalty greatly reduced when declaring war on the embargoed player(s) or conquering cities owned by them.
  • Global Peace Accords (formerly Standing Army Tax): Unit maintenance costs are raised by 25% Gold. Warmonger penalties for capturing cities and declaring war are greatly increased, and Warmonger scores decay much more slowly than normal.
  • World Religion: Designate a religion as the official World Religion. Civilizations who have a majority of the cities in their empire following the religion get an additional Delegate. The founder of the religion and/or the controller of its Holy City receive 1 additional vote for every other Civilization following the religion. The religion spreads 25% faster, and its Holy City receives +50% Tourism. There can only be one World Religion at a time.
  • World Ideology: Designate an Ideology as the official World Ideology. Civilizations following the Ideology get an additional Delegate, plus 1 Delegate for every other Civilization that follows the Ideology. Public opinion in favor of that Ideology is increased for all Civilizations. Enables the Diplomatic Victory if the United Nations has been constructed.
  • Scholars in Residence: Civilizations research a technology 20% more quickly if it has been discovered by at least one other Civilization. This value is increased by an additional 5% for every City-State ally the Civilization currently maintains.
  • Cultural Heritage Sites: Each World Wonder provides +2 Culture to its city, and each Great Work provides +1 Science to its city.
  • Natural Heritage Sites: Each Natural Wonder provides +2 to all Yields when worked.
  • Historical Landmarks: Great Person tile improvements provide +1 to Production, Food, and Gold when worked, and Landmarks built by Archaeologists provide +1 Culture, Science, and Faith when worked.
  • Endowment for the Arts (formerly Arts Funding): Increases generation of Great Writers, Artists, and Musicians by 33%. Decreases generation of Great Scientists, Engineers, and Merchants by 33%. Civilizations with Scores below the global average will receive a boost to Production and Culture anywhere from 10-30%.
  • World Science Initiative (formerly Sciences Funding): Increases generation of Great Scientists, Engineers, and Merchants by 33%. Decreases generation of Great Writers, Artists, and Musicians by 33%. Civilizations with Scores below the global average will receive a boost to Food and Science anywhere from 10-30%.
  • Claim Global Hegemony (formerly World Leader): Designate a player that has achieved Global Hegemony. Automatically proposed at regular intervals once a World Ideology Resolution is active.
  • World's Fair (now unlocks at Industrialization): has the following tiers:

    a.) Bronze: Free Social Policy.
    b.) Silver: Culture increases by 100% for 20 Turns.
    c.) Gold: Crystal Palace wonder appears in Capital
  • International Games: (unlocks at Radio) has the following tiers:

    a.) Bronze: Tourism increases by 100% for 20 Turns..
    b.) Silver: Receive a free Great Person of your choice.
    c.) Gold: Olympic Village wonder appears in Capital.

7.) City-State Quests
  • Build National Wonder: The first civilization to build the specified national wonder receives influence. Is a personal quest.
  • Declare War on a Major: When a city-state is bullied, there is a chance that they will ask you to declare war on a major for them. Doing so earns influence.
  • Find a City-State: Find an unmet city-state to increase influence. Quest prioritizes distant city-states.
  • Tourism Race: The capital with highest Tourism-per-turn output after 30 turns gains influence.
  • Influence Boost: +25% influence from Diplomatic Missions with city-state for 30 turns.
  • Circumnavigate: The first player to circumnavigate the globe gains influence.
  • Archaeology Quest: Race to be the first to dig up an archaeological site to gain influence. Works like the 'clear barbarian camp' quest, but for dig sites.
  • Liberation Quest: Liberate a City-State conquered by a rival civ to receive a major boost to your influence with the quest-giver, as well as a big boost from the liberated city-state.
  • Barbarian Horde: A horde of barbarians has emerged near a City-State! If the barbarians maintain their siege at the end of 20 turns, the City-State will be sacked, and become a Barbarian city.
  • Liberation Quest: Citizens of a City-State have started a revolution against a player! If the rebels maintain a presence for 20 turns, the City-State will fall to the revolution, and it will break its alliance.

8.) Other Changes:
  • Full Civilopedia Entries for all items included, modified or used with CSD.
  • New Resource: Paper produced by CSD buildings, used by CSD units. It is strategic, and can be bought/sold (but the AI values it greatly!).
  • New Improvement: Embassy can only be built by the Great Diplomat in City-State lands. When constructed, it grants +1 vote in the WC. A player cannot receive more than 1 vote per owned embassy in a City-State's land, and only the first Embassy in a City-State earns the vote.
  • 'Gift Gold' option disabled in favor of diplomatic units. Can be re-enabled in the options.sql file.
  • AI trained to use diplomatic unit system and to select targets based on distance, active quests, chance at becoming an ally, as well as alignment with victory goals. (DLL version).
  • AI trained to intelligently purchase units and buildings with gold (DLL version).
  • Swedish national trait modified. All Swedish diplomats begin the game with the 'Nobel Laureate' promotion, which grants all Diplomatic Units more influence from Diplomatic Missions. Starts disabled.
  • Mausoleum of Halicarnassus bonus tweaked to prevent exploitation. Now grants 20 Gold per great person expended and a Golden Age when finished. Starts disabled.
  • Charitable Missions Belief is now called 'Divine Right,' sets minimum City-State influence at 15 for city-states following this religion (instead of granting additional Influence from gold gifts).
  • Reliquary Belief changed to 15 Faith per expended Great Person (instead of 50). Starts Disabled.
  • Treaty Organization Freedom Ideology policy now grants +2 Influence per turn from trade routes (instead of +6).
  • Gunboat Diplomacy Autocracy Ideology policy now grants +2 Influence per turn from fear (instead of +4).
  • Mausoleum of Halicarnassus Grants Golden Age and less gold per great person expended. Starts disabled.
  • World Congress Tweaks to make the AI vote smarter for host, city-state embargo (Bismarck) and nuclear ban.
  • Embassy Tooltip to indicate player that built an Embassy.
  • Grand Temple produces 1 WC vote per 4 cities following your religion.
  • World's Fair unlocks at Industrialization.
  • Computers and Radio grant +25% empire-wide Tourism when researched.
  • Ideology Unhappiness increased, especially as a result of the Global Ideology WC resolution.
  • Options.sql in CSD main directory for mod customization and compatibility.
    Options include: tweak the competitiveness of the AI, the cost and influence value of gold gifts, enable/disable the Patronage policy modifications, tweaks to Sweden's trait, non-DLL AI changes, Beliefs, and more.

Instructions and Compatibility

If you are using Enhanced User Interface by bc1:
Spoiler:

Delete the CityView.lua file from the following folder:
Code:
C:\Users\~\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\City-State Diplomacy Mod (CSD) for Brave New World (v 20)\Assets\UI\InGame\CityView


If you are using the Communitas mod:
Spoiler:
Open the Options.sql file with a text editor in the following folder:
Code:
C:\Users\~\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\City-State Diplomacy Mod (CSD) for Brave New World (v 21)
Once opened, scroll down to this section and replace the higlighted '1' below with a '0' :

Code:
/*
CSD Patronage Policy Modifications
1 = Modified Patronage Policies Enabled (Default)
0 = Modified Patronage Policies Disabled
*/

INSERT INTO CSD (Type, Value)
VALUES ('CSD_POLICIES', 1);


To edit the Options.sql file:

Spoiler:
  • Open the Options.sql file with WordPad (or your word processor of choice)
  • Scroll down until you see the following:

    Code:
    /*
    Gold Gifting and Gold-Related Quests with City-States On/Off
    1 = Gold Gifts Enabled
    2 = Gold Gifts Disabled (Default)
    */
    
    INSERT INTO CSD (Type, Value)
    VALUES ('GIFT_OPTION', 2);
  • To enable gold gifts, change the integer after GIFT_OPTION to '1'
  • The final code should look like this:

    Code:
    /*
    Gold Gifting and Gold-Related Quests with City-States On/Off
    1 = Gold Gifts Enabled
    2 = Gold Gifts Disabled (Default)
    */
    
    INSERT INTO CSD (Type, Value)
    VALUES ('GIFT_OPTION', 1);
  • Save the file and launch the game!


Look for 'City State Diplomacy' in the Steam Workshop and in the Civfanatics downloads section.

Looking for older versions of CSD? Click here!
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Last edited by Gazebo; Jul 24, 2014 at 04:44 PM. Reason: v24 of BNW
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 07:08 AM   #2
V. Soma
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wow!

In another thread I was just about complaining about city states and diplomacy victory

I will try this!
(perhaps with other modpacks, like CCMAT - I hope that will be possible...)
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 07:11 AM   #3
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Gazebo, you write:
"you cannot save up your gold, build the UN and then buy off all the votes– you have to maintain good relations with your city-state friends by sending diplomatic units to them over a longer period of time."

Could you be more specific?
Is the mod with a Read me on things? Civpedia?

Keep up the promising work!
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 09:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V. Soma View Post
Gazebo, you write:
"you cannot save up your gold, build the UN and then buy off all the votes– you have to maintain good relations with your city-state friends by sending diplomatic units to them over a longer period of time."

Could you be more specific?
Is the mod with a Read me on things? Civpedia?

Keep up the promising work!
Soma,

This mod is compatible with everything in the CCMAT except for R.E.D. For some reason, that mod makes the diplomatic units turn into spearmen!

So you can use it with CCMAT, just don't be alarmed if this happens.

As per your second question, I have fully updated the game's civilopedia and tooltips for the new system– the way the game's new mechanic works is as follows:

Researching 'Writing' will give you access to the first diplomatic unit, the Messenger. He has a move of 3 (ignoring terrain costs) and costs 100 Production to make (so he's quite expensive in the beginning). Once built (like any other unit), you have to move him across the game-map into a city-state's territory. Once in their territory, send him on a 'trade mission' by clicking the trade mission button on the left side (just like with Great Merchants). This will net you 50 influence points with the City-State and will expend the Messenger.

As you progress through the game, you will unlock buildings, policies and new units that make City-State diplomacy easier– each new diplomatic unit moves faster than its predecessor (i.e. Messengers move 3, Envoys move 4, Emissaries move 5, et. al.)– this simulates the increasing rapidity of communication throughout history.

Once you research globalization, you will have access to both the UN (as normal) and the Ambassador diplomat unit. The Ambassador has a move of 7 and, by the end of the game (if you've built the Foreign Office wonder and Forums in your cities) should be fairly easy to build. You will then have to send ambassadors to all of the world's city states to boost your relations with them if you want to win the Diplomatic Victory!

Does this make more sense?

Hope you enjoy it! I've worked on this quite a bit– unit graphics, icons, artwork, civilopedia entires and AI modifications are all customized and polished.

-G

Last edited by Gazebo; Oct 19, 2010 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Edited syntax and grammar to reduce confusion.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 10:09 AM   #5
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RED doesn't turn your units into spearmen.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 10:13 AM   #6
Gazebo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonereal View Post
RED doesn't turn your units into spearmen.
Are you saying you tried this mod and it didn't turn them into spearmen or that the purpose of R.E.D. isn't to turn your units into spearmen? Now I'm confused as well!

I know what R.E.D. is for (and enjoy using it), however the last time I tried to use it with this mod it caused my diplomatic units to look like squads of spearmen. Perhaps we each (unknowingly) removed the glitch that was causing this problem?

I'll test it out and let you know.

-G
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 12:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazebo View Post
Are you saying you tried this mod and it didn't turn them into spearmen or that the purpose of R.E.D. isn't to turn your units into spearmen? Now I'm confused as well!

I know what R.E.D. is for (and enjoy using it), however the last time I tried to use it with this mod it caused my diplomatic units to look like squads of spearmen. Perhaps we each (unknowingly) removed the glitch that was causing this problem?

I'll test it out and let you know.

-G
I meant that I'm playing with CCMAT which includes RED and your messenger units look like messengers, not spearmen.

Love this mod by the way.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 12:57 PM   #8
Gazebo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonereal View Post
I meant that I'm playing with CCMAT which includes RED and your messenger units look like messengers, not spearmen.

Love this mod by the way.
Excellent! It is probably because I switched to using settler pieces to make the new units (as opposed to the scout pieces I used in previous versions). I will update the mod info to inform people that it is, in fact, compatible with CCMAT.

I'm glad you like it! Any suggestions for improvement?

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Old Oct 19, 2010, 03:23 PM   #9
Dhaeman
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Suleiman's new trait seems too powerful compared to Arabia only receiving +1 gold per route (in addition to their oil bonus). I would say give Ottomans +1 gold per route in addition to their base trait. The point of this mod appears to be to change diplomacy and adding other things may make people not want to play.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 07:53 PM   #10
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Suleiman's new trait seems too powerful compared to Arabia only receiving +1 gold per route (in addition to their oil bonus). I would say give Ottomans +1 gold per route in addition to their base trait. The point of this mod appears to be to change diplomacy and adding other things may make people not want to play.
Thanks for the advice– I'll simply make this mod 'modular' (ha!) and allow players to choose their parts a la carte (Diplomacy/Medical Units/Suleiman's trait)

Will put them online once finished.

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Old Oct 19, 2010, 08:32 PM   #11
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Excellent! It is probably because I switched to using settler pieces to make the new units (as opposed to the scout pieces I used in previous versions). I will update the mod info to inform people that it is, in fact, compatible with CCMAT.

I'm glad you like it! Any suggestions for improvement?

G
Not really. The mod is simple but at the same time pretty deep. It increases the geopolitics of the game and as soon as PBEM is released, it'll probably make diplomacy games verrrrry interesting.

The AI is definitely using it to good effect. Siam actually has allies in my game.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 09:21 PM   #12
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The AI is definitely using it to good effect. Siam actually has allies in my game.
Ha! Good to know they are using them- hopefully not to excess...

How's the production balance? What's the average number of turns it is taking you to build one of the units?

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Originally Posted by Sonereal View Post
Not really. The mod is simple but at the same time pretty deep. It increases the geopolitics of the game and as soon as PBEM is released, it'll probably make diplomacy games verrrrry interesting.
That's what I was going for- one small addition that can change the game without destroying the vanilla gameplay.

One last question- what do you think about the Forum? Too strong, or not strong enough?

Also, the mod is now modular- I split Suleiman's Trait and the Medical units off into their own mods.

Thanks again,
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 01:47 AM   #13
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Can I come up with ideas?

I believe that getting influence over a CS should be scaled, based on:

- the civ that has the present BEST relation with the CS should be in best position to gain new influence,
say, 100% value
(eg. if I have allied relation, that is the best, no other major civ can have that,
so when I send a unit to the CS to gain influence, I get 100% value, say 50 influence points)
(also, if I am the first to get influence with the CS, in this case all civs have equal levels, so mine is "best" /no worse than the others'/


- all other civs, not with best position with the CS, trying to get influence,
should gain less than 100% value with the unit - there would be a formula to it...
the worse the position, the less inflence can be gained...
(eg. I am neutral, with bar filled up 2/3.
3 other civs are better: 1 allied, 1 friendly, 1 neutral with bar filled 4/5...
then I have hard time to gain influence on the CS, as it has 3 more important relations...
so I can get, say (calculated by the 3 better ones) sg. like 60% influence point gain with my unit sent there)


I hope you see the "method" idea

Basically:
The first who comes to contact and deal with the CS (investing influence there)
should be in better position than the others.
But any civ can work out the way to be in leader position...

The aim with this:
To make it more difficult for civs to "buy" votes at the end,
and to make it important that you get into contact with CS early, first,
and that you hold position with CS, "fighting" with other civs...

Has does this sound?
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by V. Soma View Post
Can I come up with ideas?

I believe that getting influence over a CS should be scaled, based on:

- the civ that has the present BEST relation with the CS should be in best position to gain new influence,
say, 100% value
(eg. if I have allied relation, that is the best, no other major civ can have that,
so when I send a unit to the CS to gain influence, I get 100% value, say 50 influence points)
(also, if I am the first to get influence with the CS, in this case all civs have equal levels, so mine is "best" /no worse than the others'/


- all other civs, not with best position with the CS, trying to get influence,
should gain less than 100% value with the unit - there would be a formula to it...
the worse the position, the less inflence can be gained...
(eg. I am neutral, with bar filled up 2/3.
3 other civs are better: 1 allied, 1 friendly, 1 neutral with bar filled 4/5...
then I have hard time to gain influence on the CS, as it has 3 more important relations...
so I can get, say (calculated by the 3 better ones) sg. like 60% influence point gain with my unit sent there)


I hope you see the "method" idea

Basically:
The first who comes to contact and deal with the CS (investing influence there)
should be in better position than the others.
But any civ can work out the way to be in leader position...

The aim with this:
To make it more difficult for civs to "buy" votes at the end,
and to make it important that you get into contact with CS early, first,
and that you hold position with CS, "fighting" with other civs...

Has does this sound?
I like these ideas a lot– the key will be figuring out how to code this in. We will have to hard-code that there can be only one 'ally' of a C-S at a time (perhaps by creating a new category of friendship: neutral (0), cordial (30), friendly (60), ally (90)). The problem with this, however, is that if it is easier to gain influence as an ally, then it might become near-impossible for another civ to gain influence in that city. We will have to figure this out (I imagine, since there is currently no mathematical language for this in the game, we will have to have access to the core files first).

Perhaps we could also make influence gain scale relative to your capital's distance to a city-state?

Good stuff!
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:51 AM   #15
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Yes, relative distance can also be a factor

I don't think it is bad that it is hard to gain influence for the civs that come late in order...
in fact, this is kind of the point in this idea!
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:52 AM   #16
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Isn't it already so that there is only one ally for a CS at a time?
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:01 AM   #17
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pretty interesting idea. May I make some suggestions?

You should have diplomatic units perform missions like the great merchant. Doing so will boost relations with the other civ or city state but consume the unit. You should still allow gold to boost relations but the amount you give will depend on how far you are away from them. So to gift a city state gold on the other side of the globe would cost lets say 500 while the one close to you would cost 250. Doesnt have to be those exact numbers, just giving an example. I'll def check this out.

Good luck!
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:12 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by blazekid87 View Post
pretty interesting idea. May I make some suggestions?

You should have diplomatic units perform missions like the great merchant. Doing so will boost relations with the other civ or city state but consume the unit. You should still allow gold to boost relations but the amount you give will depend on how far you are away from them. So to gift a city state gold on the other side of the globe would cost lets say 500 while the one close to you would cost 250. Doesnt have to be those exact numbers, just giving an example. I'll def check this out.

Good luck!
Blazekid,

Your first sentence is exactly what these units do, so yeah!

For the second, my only problem with that is that it puts us right back where we started in terms of gameplay– I still think that throwing money at a city-state is an...odd way of conducting diplomacy.

Glad your interested.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:14 AM   #19
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How's the production balance? What's the average number of turns it is taking you to build one of the units?
I've only used the Messenger so far (super slow game speed but with CCMAT). Production really isn't out of hand. The only thing I've noticed is that the AI likes to build them just to have around. In my current game, Japan has a ton of them but they don't have astrology (or whatever tech allows ocean-going) so they just have a butch of messengers hanging around.

Quote:
One last question- what do you think about the Forum? Too strong, or not strong enough?
The Forum, relatively speaking, takes a long time to build in my core cities but its pretty balanced.

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Isn't it already so that there is only one ally for a CS at a time?
Yes.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:14 AM   #20
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Isn't it already so that there is only one ally for a CS at a time?
Yes– its early and I'm sleepy. I guess what I meant is that it shouldn't be possible for two people to gain benefits from the same C-S– it should be an 'all or nothing' affair.

And I agree that it should be difficult for Civs to gain influence over a CS if that CS is already an ally, but you don't want it to be so hard that players have to constantly build diplo units to make ends meet. Guess its just a factor of balance.

If you know how to code this, feel free to take a crack at it. I have no idea where to begin when it comes to distance equations, etc.

<-- History Professor, not a mathematician!

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