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Old Nov 30, 2010, 06:03 AM   #1
Moriboe
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Production Building Made Fun



More strategic options for Builders.


This mod has been assimilated by Uomo Universalis. Check it out!

Last edited by Moriboe; Mar 22, 2012 at 07:35 AM.
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Old Nov 30, 2010, 06:54 AM   #2
alpaca
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Welcome to the forums. Must be one of the most substantial first posts ever

Sorry for no mod comments.
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Old Nov 30, 2010, 09:53 AM   #3
Panda_Power
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Sounds excellent! Will def try it out when I have some time.

These forums need new people like you contributing to make the game better!
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 02:00 AM   #4
Moriboe
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Thanks for the welcome

I've been lurking since civ3 and had an account with a handful of posts at some point, but I wanted to align this account with that of steam/gamespy.
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Old Dec 04, 2010, 08:28 PM   #5
Louis XXIV
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I like some of your late game tech changes. I can't figure out all the changes on the tech tree just from that, obviously, but it's intriguing to say the least.

What is Augmented Reality supposed to represent?
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Old Dec 05, 2010, 06:19 AM   #6
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From Wikipedia: "Augmented reality is a term for a live direct or indirect view of a physical real-world environment whose elements are augmented by virtual computer-generated sensory input such as sound or graphics."
It's an existing technology; e.g. there are many iPhone apps offering this kind of functionality (no personal experience). I take a broader view here, hinting at some imaginary next-gen MMORPG games, or even a highly futuristic kind where you could be hooked up to some virtual world (national wonder), cyber punk style.
The latter would require advanced bio-/neurological knowledge, somewhat justifying the genetic engineering link (but really it's just so the tree converges neatly ), for the link to mechs I can see a sensory feed augmented with al kinds of layers for the operator.

For a next version I'd like to add one more modern tech; I probably will have to increase the number of columns to 4 to keep the tree clean.
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Old Dec 05, 2010, 10:59 AM   #7
Louis XXIV
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OK, that's what I figured it meant. People used to say Virtual Reality, but Augmented makes more sense in this context. I wish there was a better name for Mechs, though. Maybe something related to Artificial Intelligence. My suggestion would either be Machine Learning or Computational Neuroscience. Basically, the idea is Artificial Intelligence that either adapts and evolves on its own or mimics the human brain. The former would fit well for Giant Death Robots, the latter would make sense following Augmented Reality.

I was going to argue that Genetic Engineering should be in future tech, then I realized we already have it. Strange world we live in
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Old Dec 10, 2010, 05:11 AM   #8
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Thanks for the advice Louis XXIV

I revisited the modern tree and took a somewhat different approach this time. I scrapped Augmented Reality as it didn't have enough raison d'ętre; the Mechs technology was nothing more than a way of delaying GDR's a bit, so I took that out as well. You were right about the poor definition of the tech.

The new tech tree is in the OP. I'm playtesting v3 of the mod now (v2 just had bugfixes), will update soonish.
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Old Dec 10, 2010, 12:31 PM   #9
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Cool. The Modern tech tree needed the most work in the original game, so I'm glad that's getting a lot of attention. One concern. It always felt like Mech Inf were too easy to get in the original game. I wonder if it would be a good idea to move them a bit later.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 02:33 AM   #10
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True. It best belongs in the Combustion branch. I'll put it at Rocketry (which now requires Combustion and Flight) and see how it works out. I'm following Thalassicus in making Tanks 55 strength, so there's still enough reason to build those.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 02:58 PM   #11
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My Mod Browser isn't working, so could you possibly upload this? It seems interesting.
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Old Dec 12, 2010, 06:17 AM   #12
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Sure. I'm finishing up v3 now, will probably upload tonight (CET).
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Old Dec 12, 2010, 04:35 PM   #13
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Version 3 is ready; there's new additions and balance tweaks.

Spaceship parts have gotten really expensive (engine is 2400 ), but in a specialized city it's no biggie (see screenshot, didn't even have railroad connection there).

Tech costs are ramped up as I was teching way too fast in my last test game. Some things I did was make public schools 2 per 3 (up from 1/2) and give some buildings tech-dependent bonusses. To compensate the higher base research I reduced % bonusses on the other science buildings. What puzzles me in the upcoming patch is the even stronger public school and no compensation in other buildings.

As for the upcoming patch with this mod: the new Natural Wonders won't work with the National Park and maybe cities will have too rapid growth in the late game. Other than that I don't see any issues now. The patch looks fantastic
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Old Dec 13, 2010, 06:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by alpaca View Post
Welcome to the forums. Must be one of the most substantial first posts ever


And v. 3 already! Can´t believe I missed this...
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 09:59 AM   #15
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I agree with the "already": the version number seems way too high compared to the scale of the updates. I'd preferred 1.2; reserving a higher base number for proper milestones. My plan is v4 for rebalancing/aligning with the upcoming patch. Then some more time and hopefully feedback for releasing a final v5.
I feel there's nothing more I want to do with the XML. I'd like to get my hands on lua/c++ (I have decent programming experience), but it will have to wait until at least July due to other priorities.

Just for the heck of it a screenshot from my last test game. I made tech costs a bit high in v3; I only managed to launch in 2026. Research agreements got expensive too and only a few were signed during the game. Augustus was ahead of me all the time, should he have recognized he wasn't going to get domination in time and switched his victory plan to science, I would have lost.
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 07:24 AM   #16
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Sounds great, will try it out.
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Old Dec 23, 2010, 04:12 PM   #17
Moriboe
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v4 is available.

I played several test games and again moved some stuff around in the tech tree (see OP). The problem was that the bulk of science and production improvements were in the same branch, making it nearly always the best option. Additionally, lack of military units in the top branch made it risky.

Buildings are more aligned with the latest patch. Maybe it was just the regular "runaway"-effect, but near the end of my games everything seemed ridiculously cheap. So tech costs went up more and many buffs are reduced in magnitude.

Oh, and I made a lot of new icons
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 07:36 AM   #18
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I like it altogether, but six trees is simply too much. I think adding a system in which the later policies cost slightly more to make up for two or three policies would be better (this shouldn't effect early game). Also, increasing unhappiness to 3 per city is FAR too much, it makes early game expansion impossible. I don't really see the need for the increase in unhappiness; just take out the happy bonuses from opera house and theatre, which are unnecessary IMHO. I also found that in late-game the amount of happiness was too much! -2 gold per trade route also seems very excessive, although to be honest I didn't notice this in terms of my economy, so I may be wrong here. But it does make most trade routes rather pointless. Finally, although I like increasing cost of research agreements, I think as the game develops they cost just a tad too much. Everything else is great and a step in the right direction and makes the game far better (I can't really play the game without your mod TBH). But really, you need to fix the issues listed above, especially the unhappiness one. Thanks for an altogether great mod.
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 04:00 AM   #19
Moriboe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civnoob13 View Post
I like it altogether, but six trees is simply too much. I think adding a system in which the later policies cost slightly more to make up for two or three policies would be better (this shouldn't effect early game).
Not sure. It would slow down late game policy acquisition for all strategies, which is not something I want. For the culture victory I don't like the idea of postponing advancing to a next age in order not to increase policy costs.
I could split the modern era in half, calling the second half the Information Era. Increasing policy costs here makes sense. I haven't looked at the parameters yet though.

I figured that with all the culture options I added, increasing to 6 trees would be realistic, but I admit I haven't tried achieving the victory. I mostly based my assumption on the speed at which I could acquire policies after giving my cities internet access. I'll look into it.
Quote:
Also, increasing unhappiness to 3 per city is FAR too much, it makes early game expansion impossible. I don't really see the need for the increase in unhappiness; just take out the happy bonuses from opera house and theatre, which are unnecessary IMHO. I also found that in late-game the amount of happiness was too much!
The idea is to alter the tradeoff between growing your cities and settling new ones; and to add importance to location, as you can have less cities early on. I'll add 2 more base , so the "default" is having 3 cities early on.
I found it to be fine in my test games. I try to grab the luxuries (and horses) I can and let me hit the 0 happiness mark. Let some selected cities grow, then expand further, just staying above very unhappy. Fix with amphitheatres. It's quite similar to how you could crash your economy in civ4 and fix it when done expanding.

I moved one happiness from the theatre to the opera house as most of the time I am in need of happiness before hitting the Renaissance era. Now the upper path offers at least some (but little) opportunity to let some cities grow for further specialisation. Also the division in vanilla seemed to say "opera is for snobs, theatre for the plebs", which didn't feel right.

Late game I had the same observations. I thought it could be a combination of wonder/policy overkill on my behalf, while maintaining a pacifist playstyle. But now I will fix it I'll (at least) take one off the cable network, maybe move the bonus from wildlife preserves to a new Environmentalism policy, and taking more off national wonders.
Quote:
-2 gold per trade route also seems very excessive, although to be honest I didn't notice this in terms of my economy, so I may be wrong here. But it does make most trade routes rather pointless. Finally, although I like increasing cost of research agreements, I think as the game develops they cost just a tad too much.
Say you connect a city by roading 4 tiles, then the break even point is size 4. Gold increases with 1.25 per pop; still worth it imo.
I still tend to sign all the reseach pacts I can late game, and enough AI's have the money for it in my games, so I'll leave it at that.


Thanks for the insights! And of course I'm very happy you like my mod
A next version will probably not come before march due to exams and stuff.
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 01:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Moriboe View Post
Not sure. It would slow down late game policy acquisition for all strategies, which is not something I want. For the culture victory I don't like the idea of postponing advancing to a next age in order not to increase policy costs.
I could split the modern era in half, calling the second half the Information Era. Increasing policy costs here makes sense. I haven't looked at the parameters yet though.

I honestly don't know how you could solve the problem, but six policy trees is too much. Your idea does sound good though.

I figured that with all the culture options I added, increasing to 6 trees would be realistic, but I admit I haven't tried achieving the victory. I mostly based my assumption on the speed at which I could acquire policies after giving my cities internet access. I'll look into it.
I honestly don't know how you could solve the problem, but six policy trees is too much. Your idea does sound good though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moriboe View Post
The idea is to alter the tradeoff between growing your cities and settling new ones; and to add importance to location, as you can have less cities early on. I'll add 2 more base , so the "default" is having 3 cities early on.
I found it to be fine in my test games. I try to grab the luxuries (and horses) I can and let me hit the 0 happiness mark. Let some selected cities grow, then expand further, just staying above very unhappy. Fix with amphitheatres. It's quite similar to how you could crash your economy in civ4 and fix it when done expanding.
If you take the second policy tree (can't remember it off the top of my head) then your cities will grow very quickly. A city, costing 3GPT before even citizens are taken into account, will quickly far outweigh the happiness from one luxury resource. I usually expand to three cities early game, otherwise it gets too boring and you will really fall behind, but this penalty just hinders expansion too much. Maybe adding ampitheatres a little earlier on would fix the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moriboe View Post
Say you connect a city by roading 4 tiles, then the break even point is size 4. Gold increases with 1.25 per pop; still worth it imo.
I still tend to sign all the reseach pacts I can late game, and enough AI's have the money for it in my games, so I'll leave it at that.
Okay about RAs, they are acceptable for me and still worth it. I have done the maths and trade route penalties aren't that bad either. My bad.

Again, other than what I said, great mod
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