HOF IV Update Discussion

The Civilization IV Hall of Fame has been updated. 102 games were accepted since the previous update.

Congratulations to iggymnrr for the highest score of the update with a Huge Chieftain Space Colony game for 436,462 points.

neilmeister was the most active player during this update, submitting 23 games.

Only 5 players were brave enough to take on Deity this update

• bcool
  • 860 AD Standard Deity Religious game for 103639 points
• Kaitzilla
  • 2860 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 73816 points
  • 480 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 89363 points
  • 1720 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 48801 points
• neilmeister
  • 1200 BC Small Deity Religious game for 24935 points
  • 1300 BC Tiny Deity Religious game for 33688 points
  • 1725 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 36477 points
  • 1080 BC Small Deity Religious game for 27887 points
  • 1320 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 28164 points
  • 1120 BC Tiny Deity Religious game for 31610 points
  • 1600 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 26719 points
  • 875 BC Small Deity Religious game for 21113 points
  • 320 BC Tiny Deity Religious game for 26191 points
  • 1700 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 108180 points
  • 1240 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 30852 points
  • 700 BC Large Deity Religious game for 51899 points
• shulec
  • 740 AD Standard Deity Religious game for 48222 points
  • 160 AD Tiny Deity Religious game for 22902 points
  • 1440 AD Tiny Deity Religious game for 19667 points
  • 1785 AD Small Deity Domination game for 49521 points
  • 1884 AD Tiny Deity Domination game for 21255 points
  • 1631 AD Standard Deity Space Race game for 32067 points
  • 2009 AD Tiny Deity Diplomatic game for 6737 points
• Sun Tzu Wu
  • 840 BC Duel Deity Domination game for 136739 points
  • 1560 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 40111 points
  • 600 BC Duel Deity Domination game for 201622 points
  • 280 AD Duel Deity Domination game for 127269 points
  • 410 AD Tiny Deity Domination game for 243762 points
  • 1875 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 30979 points
  • 2800 BC Duel Deity Conquest game for 41077 points

Gauntlet Results:
G-Major 92 - Space, Emporer, Quick
1^st bcool 1705 AD
2^nd tachywaxon 1790 AD
3^rd Kaitzilla 1800 AD

G-Minor 121 - Space Colony, Chieftain, Large, Epic with Churchill
1^st ozbenno 1620 AD
2^nd babaBrian 1726 AD
3^rd colonelmustard 1742 AD

** New Gauntlets Starting **
G-Major 93 - Diplomatic, Immortal, Large, Epic on Continents with Gilgamesh
G-Minor 122 - Domination, Prince, Standard, Quick

A number of players gained number one positions:

the religious battle rages on!

Indeed!

4 of my Deity #1 games were overtaken, all by Sun Tzu Wu, including my 2 quick domination games. Do I sense a little bit of payback

I'm going to have to use Mapfinder to get me some really sweet starts if I am going to continue this battle any further.

Lots of action on Deity this update. Good work all.

On deity, Sun Tzu is merciless.

neilmeister said:

4 of my Deity #1 games were overtaken, all by Sun Tzu Wu, including my 2 quick domination games. Do I sense a little bit of payback

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neilmeister, I like and respect you both as a player and a fellow human being. Please take this as friendly advice: I'm the Deity Grand Master of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories. I don't recall ever failing to win a Deity level Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory Gauntlet. You can continue to cherry pick and beat my weaker RL DV #1 games, but those wins will not stand for even a single update. There are still 7 other Deity level Victory Conditions plus Score to choose from. You are welcome to compete against me in Deity Conquest or Domination Victories or pursue other Deity Victory Conditions without direct competition with me (for the foreseeable future).

The choice is yours!

Remember: Win First, then Declare War. Do NOT Declare War First, then Seek to Win. (from "The Art of War" by the real Sun Tzu Wu)

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu said:

I'm the Deity Grand Master of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories.
Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

THIS! What an affront... A side of Sun Tzu I never saw...
Perhaps I should join Neilmester side to proove the contrary...nah I lack too much experience. Mapfinder won't be enough gentle to give me multiple maps featuring marble on hill plus 2 gems or more plus tons of forests.

Now, does that strike anyone else as a bit of an overreaction?

I'm the Deity Grand Master of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories.

Click to expand...

That is correct, I'm not going to argue against the obvious. But that doesn't mean that you own the RL DV table.

I don't recall ever failing to win a Deity level Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory Gauntlet.

Click to expand...

I'm sure there have been dozens of them.

I predict that you will continue to take my weaker Deity RL DV #1 games

Click to expand...

Correct!

and I will immensely enjoy crushing all your Deity #1 games.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't call you getting the same date as my Quick Tiny Domination 'crushing', you take the #1 slot based on score alone. But I completely expect you to continue to attempt to remove my name from the deity HoF table, your doing a good job

Remember: Win First, then Declare War. Do NOT Declare War First, then Seek to Win. (from "The Art of War" by the real Sun Tzu Wu)

Click to expand...

Ahh, but you see. I'm fighting a guerilla war. I can't hope to win, all I can try to do is annoy you. It would seem that I am succeeding

Tachywaxon said:

On deity, Sun Tzu is merciless.

Click to expand...

Yes.

Sun Tzu Wu said:

I'm the Deity Grand Master of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories.
Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

Tachywaxon said:

THIS! What an affront... A side of Sun Tzu I never saw...
Perhaps I should join Neilmester side to proove the contrary...nah I lack too much experience. Mapfinder won't be enough gentle to give me multiple maps featuring marble on hill plus 2 gems or more plus tons of forests.

Click to expand...

Yes, for that comment I do deserve having everyone gang up on my Deity RL DV #1 games and take them from me just to prove that I'm wrong. However, I believe that it is an accurate statement. I have played probably 100-200 Deity Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories, nearly 40 of which were either current or past Deity RL DV #1 games. Do you doubt it? It just seems arrogant, right?

Thanks for the response, Tachywaxon. I've revised my post in response to your comments.

Perhaps I should have let my game playing speak for me. I'm beginning to have writer's remorse. Some things are better left unsaid, right?

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu said:

Do you doubt it? It just seems arrogant, right?

Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

Tut tut tut. Of course, I don't doubt your assumptions, just surprised of the mood sudden change. I almost see Obsolete in you.
Honestly, I really liked the original one, especially the sadistic part.

neilmeister said:

Now, does that strike anyone else as a bit of an overreaction?

Click to expand...

Yes, I concur and regret that you read my post before my final changes to it. I was beginning to regret any confrontational response at all.

neilmeister said:

I wouldn't call you getting the same date as my Quick Tiny Domination 'crushing', you take the #1 slot based on score alone. But I completely expect you to continue to attempt to remove my name from the deity HoF table, your doing a good job

Click to expand...

Again, I apologize for the tasteless statement I made that you responded to above. My statement about "crushing" your games was out of line and one that I later edited out, but not before you saw it.

neilmeister said:

Ahh, but you see. I'm fighting a guerilla war. I can't hope to win, all I can try to do is annoy you. It would seem that I am succeeding

Click to expand...

I now see that you are just trying to win #1 games and if they stick great. If not, it was a #1 game for at least one update.

It does annoy nearly everyone to lose a Deity #1 game (or several). I'm not immune to this type of annoyance. I'm sure you were annoyed when I took four of yours. It is perfectly understandable.

Again, my apologies to you neilmeister for numerous comments I should not have made at all and now regret.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu said:

Yes, I concur and regret that you read my post before my final changes to it. I was beginning to regret any confrontational response at all.

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No worries, I'm pretty good at writing posts I immediately regret. So I know how it feels. I had decided to not pursue any more Deity RL DV.... until I read your post.

I now see that you are just trying to win #1 games and if they stick great. If not, it was a #1 game for at least one update.

It does annoy nearly everyone to lose a Deity #1 game (or several). I'm not immune to this type of annoyance. I'm sure you were annoyed when I took four of yours. It is perfectly understandable.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I will freely admit I was a bit annoyed at losing the Tiny Quick Domination #1, I was quite proud of that game. Please, humour me by saying it took more than 1 attempt

neilmeister said:

No worries, I'm pretty good at writing posts I immediately regret. So I know how it feels. I had decided to not pursue any more Deity RL DV.... until I read your post.

Click to expand...

Doesn't matter to me either way now. If you don't beat some of my weaker RL DV #1 games, someone else eventually will.

neilmeister said:

Yeah, I will freely admit I was a bit annoyed at losing the Tiny Quick Domination #1, I was quite proud of that game. Please, humour me by saying it took more than 1 attempt

Click to expand...

In my first attempt, my first victim still had two smaller cities left when my second victim to be submitted his DoW. That was turn 77 and I decided that my prospects for beating your date (turn 87) went from slim to nill and I abandoned the attempt. The game I submitted was the second one I attempted; I barely missed winning on turn 86, but won on the following turn to tie your date and secure the #1 slot via a higher Score.

Sun Tzu Wu

Congratulations to all those who submitted Deity games and so many of them:

Denniz said:

Only 5 players were brave enough to take on Deity this update

• bcool
  • 860 AD Standard Deity Religious game for 103639 points
• Kaitzilla
  • 2860 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 73816 points
  • 480 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 89363 points
  • 1720 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 48801 points
• neilmeister
  • 1200 BC Small Deity Religious game for 24935 points
  • 1300 BC Tiny Deity Religious game for 33688 points
  • 1725 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 36477 points
  • 1080 BC Small Deity Religious game for 27887 points
  • 1320 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 28164 points
  • 1120 BC Tiny Deity Religious game for 31610 points
  • 1600 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 26719 points
  • 875 BC Small Deity Religious game for 21113 points
  • 320 BC Tiny Deity Religious game for 26191 points
  • 1700 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 108180 points
  • 1240 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 30852 points
  • 700 BC Large Deity Religious game for 51899 points
• shulec
  • 740 AD Standard Deity Religious game for 48222 points
  • 160 AD Tiny Deity Religious game for 22902 points
  • 1440 AD Tiny Deity Religious game for 19667 points
  • 1785 AD Small Deity Domination game for 49521 points
  • 1884 AD Tiny Deity Domination game for 21255 points
  • 1631 AD Standard Deity Space Race game for 32067 points
  • 2009 AD Tiny Deity Diplomatic game for 6737 points
• Sun Tzu Wu
  • 840 BC Duel Deity Domination game for 136739 points
  • 1560 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 40111 points
  • 600 BC Duel Deity Domination game for 201622 points
  • 280 AD Duel Deity Domination game for 127269 points
  • 410 AD Tiny Deity Domination game for 243762 points
  • 1875 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 30979 points
  • 2800 BC Duel Deity Conquest game for 41077 points

Click to expand...

Denniz said:

A number of players gained number one positions:
Kaitzilla with a 480 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 89363 points.
Kaitzilla with a 2860 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 73816 points.
Kaitzilla with a 1720 BC Tiny Deity Conquest game for 48801 points.
neilmeister with a 1300 BC Tiny Deity Religious game for 33688 points.
neilmeister with a 1240 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 30852 points.
neilmeister with a 700 BC Large Deity Religious game for 51899 points.
shulec with a 1631 AD Standard Deity Space Race game for 32067 points.
shulec with a 1785 AD Small Deity Domination game for 49521 points.
Sun Tzu Wu with a 840 BC Duel Deity Domination game for 136739 points.
Sun Tzu Wu with a 600 BC Duel Deity Domination game for 201622 points.
Sun Tzu Wu with a 1560 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 40111 points.
Sun Tzu Wu with a 1875 BC Duel Deity Religious game for 30979 points.
Sun Tzu Wu with a 410 AD Tiny Deity Domination game for 243762 points.

Click to expand...

Congratulations to Kaitzilla for his trio of #1 Tiny Conquest games! Glad they weren't all Quechua powered! War Chariots were used in the Quick game as I recall.

Congratulations to neilmeister for his trio of #1 RL DV games that continues to prevent Sun Tzu Wu's domination of the Deity RL DV Table.

Congratulations to shulec for his pair of #1 games.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu said:

I'm the Deity Grand Master of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories.
Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

I would recommend that you reserve that title for use only after all of your #1 spots are unbeatable. No doubt, there are many beatable #1 spots. It may be worth beating at least one of your games every update, just so I can see a stain on you Grand Master title!

The fact that losing your number one spots annoys you will make it all the more enjoyable!


shulec,
part time religious leader antagonist.

EDIT: Congrats to you as well for your #1 deity games.

Awesome update! 7 more tables filled (#1-#10). New #1 spots all over the place.

Enjoy the stats!

New Stats: Added stat for number of games bumped from the HOF

Sun Tzu Wu said:

You can continue to cherry pick and beat my weaker RL DV #1 games, but those wins will not stand for even a single update.

Click to expand...

Hmmm... a question I forgot to ask. What are the 4 strongest submissions as far as you can remember?

shulec said:

I would recommend that you reserve that title for use only after all of your #1 spots are unbeatable. No doubt, there are many beatable #1 spots. It may be worth beating at least one of your games every update, just so I can see a stain on you Grand Master title!

Click to expand...

Sorry, I regret mentioning "Deity Grand Master of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories". It was only meant to be part of a logical argument to dissuade challengers of Deity Religious Leader Diplomatic #1 games from even attempting the feat, because their #1 win would be lucky to survive a single update. I realize the futility of such attempts now; some players will win a #1 game, even though they know the current holder of the title is both capable and motivated to retake that #1 game.

The title of "Deity Grand Master of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories" was supposed to be an analogue to Grandmaster of Chess. I didn't even spell "Grand Master" correctly; it should be "Grandmaster". Before the International Chess Federation began conferring "Grandmaster" titles to its members, the title was applied by players and chess critics to players with exceptionally good records. The Civ IV HoF doesn't confer specialist titles to its players, but does confer generalist Quattromasters and Elite Quattromasters awards. It has been noted by several respected Civ IV players by various comments that I'm a rather good player of Deity Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories. However, none of them suggested the title of "Deity Grandmaster of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories" or anything similar.

Therefore, I suggest that the title "Deity Grandmaster of Religious Leader Diplomatic Victories" remain buried in these archives until such time there is a consensus to confer such a title to a player.

Regarding unbeatable #1 games: There really isn't such a thing. Every #1 game, no matter how well played can be beat in many ways. Even Ironhead's Deity, Large, Marathon, Space Colony 775 AD Win is technically beatable, but one would be a fool to try to beat it, because almost any other slot would be easier to beat. Therefore, you can't base a title on having unbeatable games, because it literally can never happen. It's far better to use an objective measurement such as holding every #1 game in a Victory Condition or other category of games for at least one update, or multiple updates. One could define Master status as holding all #1 games for three updates (45+ days) and Grandmaster status as holding all #1 games for twelve updates (6 months). Such status could be conferred at each Difficulty level.

shulec said:

The fact that losing your number one spots annoys you will make it all the more enjoyable!

Click to expand...

As I stated before, I believe that any player is annoyed by losing a #1 game. I'm not special in that regard.

What really annoys me is being beat by a Civ and Leader that should be totally banned (not banned only for only Elite Quattromasters), namely Incan Empire/Huayna Capac.

In any case, if you decide to beat any Deity RL DV #1 games, I promise to retake them. I will take special pleasure in beating your game, if you decide to use the "evil" Ican Leader.

shulec said:

shulec,
part time religious leader antagonist.

EDIT: Congrats to you as well for your #1 deity games.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your well balanced comments. I behaved badly and you were relatively kind in return.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu said:

Sorry, I regret mentioning ...
Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

Awwww! Your taking all of the fun out of it! I love a little light-hearted trash talking. It elevates the spirit of competition! I know none us push it too far.

I didn't get your reference to chess. I prefer to take my own inference from your comments!