neilmeister, please don't take my recent statements so personally. I don't doubt you were not aware of my view of the Incan Civ. Even if you did, I certainly wouldn't expect you not to use it. However, I will not respect a player's Player Civ choice when he chooses the Incan Civ when viable alternative Civs exist for the target HOF slot.
I certainly do not deny a player's right to use the Incan Civ, especially when HOF table is its exclusive domain, such as Conquest Duel Quick, Conquest Duel Normal, Conquest Duel Epic, Conquest Duel Marathon and Conquest Tiny Marathon (3700 BC is simply too early for any other Civ to beat). I believe that Conquest Tiny Quick can be beat by an non-Incan Civ. I'm still undecided about Conquest Tiny Normal and Conquest Tiny Epic.
neilmeister, as you may see below, I added some additional context from my post you quoted to help respond to your concerns ...
The fact that losing your number one spots annoys you will make it all the more enjoyable!
As I stated before, I believe that any player is annoyed by losing a #1 game. I'm not special in that regard.
What really annoys me is being beat by a Civ and Leader that should be totally banned (not banned only for only Elite Quattromasters), namely Incan Empire/Huayna Capac.
In any case, if you decide to beat any Deity RL DV #1 games, I promise to retake them. I will take special pleasure in beating your game, if you decide to use the "evil"
Ican Leader.
You just can't let it go, can you?
My comments above were in response to
shulec's comments which I added above. They were not directed at you. I'm simply expressing my assessment of the Incan Civ as a Civ that should be banned. Is it surprising that I take special pleasure in beating #1 games that used the Incan Leader when I believe that Leader/Civ should be banned as unbalanced?
I beat your #1 in the previous update using Bismark & Qin, and it was these wins that so provoked your ire to target all of my other Deity #1's. (where I used Romans BTW)
Yes, I have a high regard for those games you played, not just because you did not use the Incan Civ, but because they were well played, especially the Tiny Quick Domination game.
I did not target all your #1 Deity games. I did not attempt nor do I have any plans to beat your #1 Deity Cultural game. Also, I did not go out of my way to target your Quick Duel and Tiny Domination games. I had actually started a Normal Duel game near the end of the 2nd last update and finished it early in the last update period. My plan was to do the Duel and Tiny Quick games next (I was already holding the Tiny Normal #1 game). Also, I did previously hold the #1 Tiny Quick game which I believe you took from me).
Most players would probably be willing to believe you were targeting my #1 games (nothing wrong with that of course) and I was simply returning the favor (nothing wrong with that either, right?).
Inca is barred because of the Quecha, and the rush that they make possible. Are you saying that Industrious & Financial are somehow "evil"
Inca is good for Religious due to the traits and starting techs. Industrious & Financial are custom made for a early Religious win, where all that matters is building a single wonder, and teching to Alpha to make everyone pleased.
You will need to build a few TAP Religion Missionaries too, right? Alphabet to give technologies may not be enough to get enough Civs to +8 Diplomacy. One will need Favorite Civics, Open Borders, and other means to garner the needed Diplomacy points.
The Quechua unique unit makes the Incan Civ unbalanced and in my opinion fit to be banned. However, the HOF will only ban it in Gauntlets and Challenges when it is not specifically allowed as a Player Civ. I've tried to ban the Ican Civ in the HOF tables and failed, probably because I tried too late and too many Incan games were already submitted. The answer I got back from the HOF staff was the Incan Civ would be allowed in the HOF tables as long as the game designers don't remove it in an update.
The Industrious and Financial trait pair is an extremely powerful combination which makes the Incan Civ even more unbalanced. One can do an extremely early rush (Monarch to Deity level), capture and eliminate a small number of Civs and have several high quality cities (many with improved plots) much earlier than would be possible using only one's own Settlers. It doesn't matter that the Quechua units are not used, because the AIs Civs will not attack the Incan Civ's Quechua units with Archers or Skirmishers (Mali Archer based unique unit - I may be wrong about Skirmishers not attacking Quechuas). If you don't believe me, when you are at War as a non-Incan Civ, the AI Archers will almost always attack a Warrior on flat plot without a defensive bonus. They will not attack a Quechua in the same type of plot, because of its huge +100% bonus versus archery units.
The other thing that makes the Incan Civ unbalanced is its unique building, Terrace, which provides +2 Culture per turn in addition to the normal functions of a Granary. This can be an important factor when under heavy Culture pressure from a nearby Civ that is culturally removing access to important improved plots like a Gold Mine or Gems Mine.
What is more unbalancing? Inca, or using Mapfinder for hours on end to find the
perfect start. It was only in this update that I used Inca, but I didn't use Mapfinder. Are you capable of winning a #1 without Mapfinder?
Inca. Mapfinder never finds a perfect start. With regard to
<EDIT> G-Minor-122<END EDIT>: How did you ever find an eight Cows in the BFC with Settler on PH start? (I rarely see starts better than five Cows in the BFC on Great Plains.) You didn't use Mapfinder to get that start? If so, you are very lucky with manually generating starts.
Its not about perfect starts. Its knowing what to with the best start you can find that counts, no matter how perfect or imperfect it is.
Yes, I'm quite capable of winning a #1 game without MapFinder. Just use the regenerate key. This key can be used to do manually what Mapfinder can do automatically. I just choose to use the best start (never perfect ever) I can find. Mapfinder makes this easier to do and is permitted by HOF rules, so why shouldn't I use it?
Sun Tzu Wu
