Senate Authorizes Indefinite Detention of United States Citizens

JollyRoger · Dec 2, 2011

As part of the Defense "appropriations" bill that just passed the Senate, the President can indefinitely detain a United States citizen without trial even if the citizen was within U.S. borders at the time of being detained:

(a) In General- Congress affirms that the authority of the President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition under the law of war.

(b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows:

(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.

(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

(c) Disposition Under Law of War- The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following:

(1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force.

(2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code (as amended by the Military Commissions Act of 2009 (title XVIII of Public Law 111-84)).

(3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or competent tribunal having lawful jurisdiction.

(4) Transfer to the custody or control of the person's country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1867:

Notice that the "covered person" provision does not exclude United States citizens or even exclude United States citizens who were on U.S. soil at the time of detention.

This basically means that if the executive branch detains you, they can claim you are a covered person under this statute and can prevent you from having the judicial branch review the credibility of such a claim (until the war on a concept is over :lol:

).

This is not some provision buried in the statute that escaped attention. It was actually debated and attempts to change it were brushed aside.

Looks like a bunch of Senators are still personally losing the war on terror by letting the terrorists scare them to vote for such garbage.

Skwink · Dec 2, 2011

Come on Democrats, just when you think the Republican are crazy you guys let this kinda thing go to the president.

Ayn Rand · Dec 2, 2011

Why are you complaining? It was only yesterday that you said:

JollyRoger said:
As for the U.S. Constitution, given that it was a Federal power grab and kept slavery intact, I wouldn't really place it in the in the "liberty" file of a document collection.

Did the constitution suddenly become important?

Maniacal · Dec 2, 2011

Because having 25% of the world's imprisoned population is not enough.

JollyRoger · Dec 2, 2011

Ayn Rand said:
Why are you complaining? It was only yesterday that you said:

Did the constitution suddenly become important?

What is there is important. Just because it was not the shining light for liberty that we all are taught to pretend it was doesn't mean we should ignore the good provisions that are there (in this case the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments).

Ayn Rand · Dec 2, 2011

JollyRoger said:
What is there is important. Just because it was not the shining light for liberty that we all are taught to pretend it was doesn't mean we should ignore the good provisions that are there (in this case the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments).

I agree - and I don't like article 4 in your OP, which allows for transfer to any foreign country. That is a fast-track to torture.

amadeus · Dec 2, 2011

(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

Can I call the tip line and report Eric Holder? Holder's agency supplied Mexican drug gangs with arms which were subsequently used to murder American citizens under the employ of the federal government. By law, Holder should be detained and held without trial until the end of the War (on Drugs.)

Rashiminos · Dec 2, 2011

Obviously this measure is in anticipation of the conflict to come (if not sowing the seeds for it outright).

woody60707 · Dec 2, 2011

Why would you need wordage to say this doesn't apply to US citizens when the US constitution already says it?

JohnRM · Dec 2, 2011

Says it all.

GoodSarmatian · Dec 2, 2011

JollyRoger said:
Notice that the "covered person" provision does not exclude United States citizens or even exclude United States citizens who were on U.S. soil at the time of detention.

And why should it ? If the US government can ignore international law and declare anybody and their dog an unlawful combatant, it's only fair that it can indefinitely detain it's own citizens.
I think this has been overdue for years :mischief:

.

civver_764 · Dec 2, 2011

I think people who focus on the "U.S. citizen" part(or lack thereof) are really missing the point. Nobody should be subjected to this kind of nonsense.

SG-17 · Dec 2, 2011

Didn't the White House vow to veto this anyway?

El_Machinae · Dec 2, 2011

woody60707 said:
Why would you need wordage to say this doesn't apply to US citizens when the US constitution already says it?

This is my first natural question. Is there the implication that the detained will not get access to a lawyer?

warpus · Dec 2, 2011

Eh, I think they just want to create a law that only applies to "terrorists" or whatever, no matter if they're American citizens or not

galdre · Dec 2, 2011

sort of a 'we believe in equal rights for everyone, unless we think you shouldn't equal rights'

not for this, whether or not it applies to US citizens

kochman · Dec 2, 2011

JollyRoger said:
As part of the Defense "appropriations" bill that just passed the Senate, the President can indefinitely detain a United States citizen without trial even if the citizen was within U.S. borders at the time of being detained:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1867:

Notice that the "covered person" provision does not exclude United States citizens or even exclude United States citizens who were on U.S. soil at the time of detention.

This basically means that if the executive branch detains you, they can claim you are a covered person under this statute and can prevent you from having the judicial branch review the credibility of such a claim (until the war on a concept is over).

This is not some provision buried in the statute that escaped attention. It was actually debated and attempts to change it were brushed aside.

Looks like a bunch of Senators are still personally losing the war on terror by letting the terrorists scare them to vote for such garbage.

Ummm... this is a direct violation, clearly... and the Supreme Court will shoot it to pieces should the Great One sign it into law (which I am not sure even he would, despite being an abject failure).

Maybe I am missing something... it had something like 93 yes votes... meaning totally bipartisan.
Can this be right??? Am I missing something???

kochman · Dec 2, 2011

JollyRoger said:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1867:

Which part is this stuff found in?
Huge document!!!

illram · Dec 2, 2011

I thought I remembered hearing that Obama would veto this if it hit his desk.

Crezth · Dec 2, 2011

kochman said:
Ummm... this is a direct violation, clearly... and the Supreme Court will shoot it to pieces should the Great One sign it into law (which I am not sure even he would, despite being an abject failure).

Why do you always have to talk about Obama being a failure? This obsession of yours is kind of creepy.

Senate Authorizes Indefinite Detention of United States Citizens

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