Do you build swordsmen?

bhavv · May 18, 2012

Right, I'd actually skip IW if going straight for catapults, though in my test game with Tokugawa, I also had 2 jungle gems so I did IW > Construction.

With catapults you can use any units to attack with, and mixed stacks of axes and spears will generally fare better than swords because they are much more resistant to attacks.

Tlalynet · May 19, 2012

Yep, so would I.

Thats part of the problem with swords.

Silv Something · May 20, 2012

When I barely knew how the game worked, I would always build swords instead of axes because I saw they had 6 strength and axes had 5. But then I finally found out about the +50% vs melee for axes . . .
I do axes now, and rarely swords

digitalcraft · May 20, 2012

I usually have some with my main invasion force because they're a good all-around unit if the opponent has horse things. Stick them with the axemen and send them in first after catapults because of their stronger strength, or use them just to protect the axement from chariots or horseman, but never for defense.

noto2 · May 21, 2012

What I was talking about was timing. Often if you rush IW you can just send a stack of swords/axes and mop up 2-3 AI cities, you know, the ones that the AI settles RIGHT ON TOP OF YOU and doesn't bother to defend well (2 archers, no walls). Axes have a harder time alone and catapults take too long - the AI then defends those cities well. HOWEVER, once you've taken the fringe cities you get to the AI core cities and those always require catapults to take no matter what (unless you're Ghengis or Julius, or something along those lines)

Nick Carpathia · May 22, 2012

Why would swords be useful against a metalless opponent? If they lack metal, you go for Horse Archers. Not Swords.

Pisskop · May 22, 2012

At the end of day even legions need ax/horse support to operate efficently. Cats to really take off. Even veteran swords fall to axes. IRL Rome had its auxillia, and before them... it had cool javalins and got sacked.

King Kalmah · May 22, 2012

Nick Carpathia said:
Why would swords be useful against a metalless opponent? If they lack metal, you go for Horse Archers. Not Swords.

There have been times that horse is just too far away...

For example lets say its three/four tiles east of that new capitol you want to take with your swords...(pop a monumant and a lib and boom)

I mean it is rare,but I have seen iron in my BFC,but no horse...happens if you have elephants I think with jungle...

I play tropical maps...so more importance on Iron Working in my EXp,,,the other AI may turtle up if the jungle is too thick.Kinda like the Incan and Mayan did in real life...

Nick Carpathia · May 22, 2012

Fair enough. However, you'll discover your horse resource many many turns before Horseback Riding. If you have horse, I'd rather go HBR than gamble on Iron.

Um the Muse · May 23, 2012

This is an interesting discussion because I thought that swords + catapults was the way to go according to consensus (assuming you don't have elephants).

Without ivory, what do you guys use then? It seems like many of you like axes. Has anybody tried chariots? What about cheap UU's, like War Chariots? Maybe use Skirmishers or Holkan?

Edit: Obviously, I know that you want at least a little bit of everything for defense. What kind of mixes do you guys use, though?

Antilogic · May 23, 2012

Axes are the plurality of my early combat forces if I have copper (or later iron) available. I usually have a few swords to specialize as city attackers, but nowhere near the number of axes present. #2 in terms of numbers usually goes to horse archers or catapults.

I also have a couple spears in my main stack plus a few reserve in border cities to deal with raiders. Obviously, if I have horses I always have a few chariots and plenty of horse archers. Foot archers and warriors are a tiny fraction of my troops--they only exist so I can move the early axes I made for defense/garrisons to the fronts.

TheMeInTeam · May 23, 2012

those always require catapults to take no matter what

That's only true if the rush arrives too late. For example, when you wait for swords.

Tlalynet · May 24, 2012

Yeah, normally if I don't take their core cities long pre catapults I don't consider it a 'rush'.

plasmacannon · May 24, 2012

TheMeInTeam said:
That's only true if the rush arrives too late. For example, when you wait for swords.

Yes exactly!
Chariots work so much better.

Spoiler :

??? hmm. That didn't view as I expected.
The link itself can be copied/pasted.
It is 3 images of a chariot rush (before, ready to attack, after).

r_rolo1 · May 24, 2012

Moderator Action: Say, this images ?

Spoiler :

From Here

plasmacannon · May 24, 2012

Yea. That's it.
I copied the line imgur provided.
It looks like I just needed the web link.

That has been a fun game.
By year , I have had 119 kills, not includung animals. Only 2 were American archers.
Raging Barbs makes the game so much more interesting. Not a quick teching game.
I wish there was a way to block out the Great Wall's ability to block barbs and only inpart its 100%GG, when using "Raging Barbs". It would then grant a level playing field. But this might be for another topic.

Pisskop · May 24, 2012

Play terra or some other map w/a New World and ragers on. For a few turns(until you establish a production city) the barbs can do a surprising amount of damage... esp. if you are amoung the first to astro or rush it w/out same tier military.

Archon_Wing · May 24, 2012

Um the Muse said:
This is an interesting discussion because I thought that swords + catapults was the way to go according to consensus (assuming you don't have elephants).

Without ivory, what do you guys use then? It seems like many of you like axes. Has anybody tried chariots? What about cheap UU's, like War Chariots? Maybe use Skirmishers or Holkan?

Edit: Obviously, I know that you want at least a little bit of everything for defense. What kind of mixes do you guys use, though?

In a catapult war, you have 3 goals

1.) Defend the Stack
2.) Finish off enemies weakened by siege
3.) Defend the cities you captured

Swords don't contribute much to this. They are useless as stack guarders because they are worse than spears at defending vs horses and worse than axes at fighting other melee. They are good defending... against archers. :lol:

They are the best at finishing off enemies weakened by siege but the siege did all the work already. So that was why in the first post I asked if sending in swords after 1-2 catapults attack could be useful to save catapults.

An army of axes and spears can go well enough with catapults. Of course it will struggle against elephants, but what doesn't?

People have reported success using archers to escort catapults. That seems nice to guard cities with, but it's for me to imagine since wouldn't the catapults defend the archers due to higher base strength? I'd assume you'd have to find a road completely done from defensive terrain then.

twansalem · May 25, 2012

If I haven't completely finished a war by the time I get swordsmen, I'll typically mix in a few with my axes and catapults for the final mopping up.

My other most common use of swordsmen is more of a desperation move. If I'm falling behind my enemy in tech (more specifically, he's researched feudalism and I don't yet have both machinery and civil service), city raider II swordsmen supported by suicide catapults can often do enough damage to longbows to get a peace treaty.

Pisskop · May 25, 2012

What is the general ideal ratio ppl typically use? Swords.Axes.Spears.Horse?

Praet stacks are for me a standard 5.1.1, not including siege and smaller horse stacks, if applicable.

Standard swords, I use ~2.6.1.3 w/hopefully 4 cats per. These horsies differ from praet horsies in that they defend the stack and cause more selective damage(land improvements, stray workers,settlers).

Do you build swordsmen?

Do you?

Often

Sometimes

Rarely/Never

What's a sword?

Are you sure you're not talking about praets?

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