Israel

Pavel Chichikov · May 29, 2012

I gave this some thought, and I actually think this could work.

Spawn date: 1948
(Babylon, Arabia & Phoenicia get fixed re-spawn at 1946 if independent or the Civ controlling the territories is less than Very-Solid.) All middle-Eastern AI nations declare war on them on spawn, Israel gets huge bonuses to deal with them, as the date is so late its not such an issue.

UHV:
- Never lose a City before 2020
- Vassalize 3 middle-Eastern civs by 1990
- Have open borders agreements with 14 civs by 1990

UB - Mossad Agency: 100%

UU - Strong Paratrooper

UP - The Power of Citizen Armies:
All units in Israeli territory take heavy attrition damage.

BenZL43 · May 29, 2012

I think the problem in Israel, as the real country is pretty small, it would only contain 1 city (Jerusalem) in the DoC Map; yet the country is only around 3-4 tiles in size.

IMO, Israeli is a better idea if someone makes either of these following:

-Ancient SoI as Kingdom of Judea
-Modern SoI as Israel

SoI map cover more details etc on the Israeli region.

soul-breathing · May 29, 2012

I also think it's almost impossible,because the area is too small,and Turk's UP is also a big problem.

strijder20 · May 29, 2012

I don't like this suggestion, there is no reason to represent every tiny little nation around the world, especially if they are much better represented by independents, like in this case.
You also need a new UA, this is just the same as the Russian one.

aviv135 · May 29, 2012

speaking as in Israeli, although I would love to see my country represented in civ it's just not practical in this case

Tomorrow's Dawn · May 29, 2012

Apart from everyone else's suggestions that I for the most part agree with,
"Strong Paratrooper" is a terrible name and concept. Why not Shayatet 13?
The UP would be broken as well, considering as Israel, you are not like Russia
and holding a defensive posture. If you're Israel, you'd be conquering everywhere
and expanding that attrition zone.

aviv135 · May 29, 2012

UP can also be Merkava tank mark IV

Arizael · May 29, 2012

Izralei civilization would do more damage than fun. but what should be imho fixed is the city of Jeruzalem, since now if u don't raze it upon conquest you are hurting your economy which is bad.

Tigranes · May 30, 2012

We have too many civs already. Tibet, Vietnam, Poland, Scotland, or Khazars deserve to be represented more. The mod is already crowded and slow.

I would love to see more modern UHVs for existing civs though. Civs like China, India, Japan, Britain, France could have ancient, medieval and modern goals. How many civs now end up researching (almost) the entire tech tree? US, Germany, Russia -- is the modern world represented by those 3 civs?

Leoreth · May 30, 2012

Japan

MontcalmXVI · May 30, 2012

I actually highly support an Israel. They're one of the more important modern countries in the world. Independant nations can't represent it well because Israel has such a diplomatic entanglement with the middle east, along with alliances with the West.
Though, it's not worth the effort to put it in right now. There are a lot of other things more important than like the last 50 years of the game. We already took out Judaism to save space.

Actually, why not make it a rebirth? Find a middle ground here. Rebirth of the Pheonecians.

Tigranes · May 31, 2012

Pheonecians are Lebanon, IIRC...

Pavel Chichikov · May 31, 2012

Lol Tibet. (Poland would be perfect as minor-civ buffer-state between HRE & Russia though, they'd be turtle-AI, white, & get gobbled up by Germany/Russia by 1820)
I think Israel has much stronger historical & gamplay claim to inclusion status than say, Thailand, Ethiopia or Maya (who plays seriously ever played Maya except to cripple themselves for challenge anyway, ditto Ethiopia).
I was thinking it would be a 1 city challenge game from the beginning.
Obviously "strong paratrooper" isn't the name, just suggestion.
I think vassalizing 3 civs would be interesting, you could try and dominate the Middle-East from 1 mega-city. Instead of conquering, the player would beat Phoenicia, Babylon & Egypt into submission with espionage & advanced technology and capitulate them. (smash Nasser & Saddam & set up the Maronite state!

)
The UP could be a big boost relating the Capital city, for playing a very small Civ with such a huge impact.
Would be one of the most challenging Civs to play in the game, and not in a boring way like the native-american civs or mali either.

Leoreth · May 31, 2012

Pavel Chichikov said:
Lol Tibet. (Poland would be perfect as minor-civ buffer-state between HRE & Russia though, they'd be turtle-AI, white, & get gobbled up by Germany/Russia by 1820)
I think Israel has much stronger historical & gamplay claim to inclusion status than say, Thailand, Ethiopia or Maya

All those states you mention at least have a history. Israel exists only for 64 years, and I couldn't think of anyone who would wait until its spawn to play for such a short time. It's essentially work put into something you won't see in 95% of the games.

iOnlySignIn · May 31, 2012

Leoreth said:
All those states you mention at least have a history. Israel exists only for 64 years, and I couldn't think of anyone who would wait until its spawn to play for such a short time. It's essentially work put into something you won't see in 95% of the games.

(1) You will see it in most games if you play the 1700 Scenario.

(2) It could spawn in 1915 as the British Mandate of Palestine.

Leoreth · May 31, 2012

iOnlySignIn said:
(1) You will see it in most games if you play the 1700 Scenario.

Intriguing. I'll wait until it is finished then

MontcalmXVI · May 31, 2012

Why not just change it from Lebanon to Israel then? Israel has a MUCH bigger part in history.

Tomorrow's Dawn · May 31, 2012

The game is a little crowded as is.
I also don't think that Israel should be referred to as a "civilization"
for such a modern inception, and rather, it is just a state.
I stand by that Israel should not be included.
I do however, think the Jerusalem city site should be improved.

Also, don't knock on Maya.
Maya is really fun; I have no idea what you're talking about.

Dumanios · May 31, 2012

Israel as an additional civ would be silly, but I agree that Phoenicia should respawn as Israel, and not Lebanon. Israel has fought successful wars against large parts of the Muslim world, has nuclear weapons, and took out Adolf Eichmann. What has Lebanon done in comparison?

Having a Phoenician respawn as Israel would complete a Modern Middle East with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq as a respawn of Babylonia, Iran, Turkey, and Pakistan as a respawn of the Mughals.

Bair_the_Normal · May 31, 2012

Pavel Chichikov said:
I think Israel has much stronger historical & gamplay claim to inclusion status than say, Thailand, Ethiopia or Maya (who plays seriously ever played Maya except to cripple themselves for challenge anyway, ditto Ethiopia).

...What. Israel's historical claim's got nothing on either Maya or Ethiopia. Plus, both Ethiopia and Maya are fun and not a challenge at all, the only thing that inhibits them are constant native/barb attacks.

Israel

King

awkward cat

Emperor

Wallowing in irony

Chieftain

Heroes Never Die

Chieftain

Chieftain

Armenian

Bofurin

Chieftain

Armenian

King

Bofurin

Prince$s

Bofurin

Chieftain

Heroes Never Die

Hakugyukurou Gardener

転輪聖王

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