Austria. Broken on higher difficulties? Or just plain broken?

[Motrok]

Hello. I am a veteran player and reader of this forum, but until now I hadn't really posted much.

I usually play on Immortal difficulty, since on Deity the cheating from the AI is simply to retarded to even try, you have to exploit something to win or otherwise get stomped. On Immortal, the AI also cheats, and although it does it in a pretty grotesque way, its playable, and I usually either win or get very close to it.

Today I started playing a game as Siam, on Archipielago, Standard, Immortal, normal speed, standard on every other setting. I got a pretty decent spot, and got to it.

Then I noticed there were no City States on my island (as you can guess, my idea was to go for a cultural victory, hence the archipielago-Siam combo). So i rushed Caravels and went on to explore.

Then I found the city states. Austria had bought all of them. Since the AI cheats so damn much with gold, happiness, and with the "coups" (it attempts a coup every turn and more often than not, succeeds), Austria had already bought most city states. Ok, I kept on playing, wasn't doing so bad.

But it kept getting even more retarded. By the turn 277, Austria had bought ALL city states, but one. This, along with the inherent cheating, pumped its score up to astronomical levels. It has about four times the average score of any other civ in the game, it is building THE APOLLO PROJECT WHILE I AM RESEARCHING CHEMISTRY (and I am not far behind other civs, according to my spies, except of course Austria), granted I went the cultural tech path, but still the difference between this AI and me and any other AI is abysmal, and it has already attempted a coup at Kuala Lumpur last turn, and failed. It will succeed and insta-buy it within the next five turns, I have no doubt.

Here is a screen:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7...98919623264094

Spoiler:

So, what to do with this civ? I cannot stop it from cheating. It cheats so much that it always has gold to buy off city states. I've tried Austria and it is very, very powerful for a player too, since you get a full army and a premium city whenever you buy a city state (good location, all the buildings available) for a meager 500ish gold. BUT, you are restricted by happiness, since they are usually so big, that you cannot buy them all at the same time. The AI doesn't have this issue.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any inputs? For me, if this is not fixed, I will just have to restart any game where Austria appears.

Thanks and sorry for the long post!

[RealHuhn]

Just looking at the screenshot, your 129 science per turn is incredibly low, even for a cultural victory.
Apollo Project around turn 270 isn't that unusual on Immortal either.

On the other hand, I've never seen Austria buying that many city states. That's hilarious xD
I'm sure there are a few more hidden in the fog though.

[Motrok]

Yes, my science is low. I only have two cities, the third that you can see down there has around 2-3 turns only since i founded it. You know why I have low science? because I went full Patronage, for a cultural win with Siam, and Austria bought ALL of the city states. So I cannot get science from them from the policy that gives you science per allied city state.

Anyway, I sent a spy to Hiawatha (he is second in score, has 1/3 of Austria's) and he is only 3 techs ahead of me. Cannot steal from Maria Theresa, since she has all the anti-spy buildings, and takes over 100 turns.

It is completely broken. I know it isn't unusual to have Apollo project by that time, but since it imbalanced the game so much, she is THE ONLY ONE in mdoern era. Everyone else is entering industrial.

[prince_caspian]

The UA definitely needs some fixing, like having a 30-turn cooldown or something. I stopped from suggesting an exponential increase to the gold payment after it occurred to me that it won't make any difference whatsoever.

[Mechanicalsalvation]

@Motrok instead of restart every game where Austria appears do it like France in reality: DOW or otherwise handle them before it becomes issue.

[Udey1]

You havent explored half the map at 270.

I am playing austria immortal/bab/going space this time, keep allied with CS or else she'll buy/marry them all, granted you didnt have any on your island, but the ones austria got that werent on her island is because she found them first. Fair and square. It is a strong ability and i think when you find austria as a neighbor you need to play to it and adapt: i.e. Maybe not the patronage tree

The exploration (lack of it) contributed heavily to your situation imo.

[Motrok]

Originally Posted by Udey1

You havent explored half the map at 270.

I am playing austria immortal/bab/going space this time, keep allied with CS or else she'll buy/marry them all, granted you didnt have any on your island, but the ones austria got that werent on her island is because she found them first. Fair and square. It is a strong ability and i think when you find austria as a neighbor you need to play to it and adapt: i.e. Maybe not the patronage tree

The exploration (lack of it) contributed heavily to your situation imo.

No. The point I am making is that the ability is strong per se, but when the AI cheats (as in, succeeds in most coups or has infinite money/happiness to buy off city states so you CANNOT keep them on your side, allied to you) it is pointless. I was ally of most city states, until Austria started buying them off.

[hbar]

I just resigned my first game on Emperor. I made the mistake of not DOWing Austria right away (she was on the other side of the continent and in constant war with Japan - how strong can she get?), and she pretty quickly became the runaway. The science disparity wasn't too bad (She completed the Manhattan Project around the time I got my first GW Infantry), but by then Ptolemy came out with his handy "Pointiest Sticks" report.

I'm playing a culture game, 3 cities with a reasonably sized, highly promoted and fully upgraded defensive military. I score about 2000 points; not great, but not bad.

Then I see Austria's score. 78,000.

She completed the Manhattan Project three turns later and I resigned, knowing fully what was coming next.

[Motrok]

Originally Posted by hbar

I just resigned my first game on Emperor. I made the mistake of not DOWing Austria right away (she was on the other side of the continent and in constant war with Japan - how strong can she get?), and she pretty quickly became the runaway. The science disparity wasn't too bad (She completed the Manhattan Project around the time I got my first GW Infantry), but by then Ptolemy came out with his handy "Pointiest Sticks" report.

I'm playing a culture game, 3 cities with a reasonably sized, highly promoted and fully upgraded defensive military. I score about 2000 points; not great, but not bad.

Then I see Austria's score. 78,000.

She completed the Manhattan Project three turns later and I resigned, knowing fully what was coming next.

And that is on Emperor. On Immortal the cheating is way more obscene.

[Udey1]

Originally Posted by Motrok

No. The point I am making is that the ability is strong per se, but when the AI cheats (as in, succeeds in most coups or has infinite money/happiness to buy off city states so you CANNOT keep them on your side, allied to you) it is pointless. I was ally of most city states, until Austria started buying them off.

It is true, my spies just plain suck compared to any AI spies. So much so that i dont hardly bother. In my game i stopped traveling down patronage right when i met her, because her ability is strong, and went rationalism instead. I was peaceful play this time, like you are, i just kept cash on hand to buy back any CS i wanted
To keep before she could convert them.

I wouldnt say "cannot" though, im 4 cities on immortal and i own 12 CS, all allied, (turn 255) , the rest, she has converted. Quests really help, and
Exploring helps that, i still find half map explored at that turn not adequate.

I think austria ruined your plans this game, and youll take a loss. Curse those austrians!

[nefloyd]

-Gold cost for buying them should increase (more a fix to player than to AI)
-Those cities should be able to be liberated (they act as if they were founded by Austria)

She becomes a runaway easily. Control her or kill her off asap.

[strijder20]

In my current game, Catherine got 3000 score by 1700 AD and completed Apollo and completed Manhattan. So while it's definitely possible they got so powerful thanks to their UA, it's also possible they 'just' ran away by themselves.

[Hammer Rabbi]

Originally Posted by nefloyd

-Gold cost for buying them should increase (more a fix to player than to AI)
-Those cities should be able to be liberated (they act as if they were founded by Austria)

She becomes a runaway easily. Control her or kill her off asap.

that i didnt know. that is huge and should definitely by changed. when i played as Austria I married into 4 CSs but i also lost one and sold another one late game. The one i lost wasnt liberated but i also just assumed the AI wanted it for themselves.

I wonder if I marry into one, then lose it to a neighbor, then take it back if I can liberate it since i got it from a neighbor. that would be something to try. it also a terribly impractical strategy but still something to try.

Edit: for convenience/accommodating reasons, Motrok, try to 'hide' the screenshot in the advanced posting options. the image you used is so large that it wont fit on my monitor which requires side-to-side scrolling to read the text as it doesnt wrap to a particular width smaller than the image. its only a minor inconvenience but just a suggestion.

[chazzycat]

I have been able to control them fine on immortal...haven't tried deity yet. They are definitely one of the more dangerous AI though. Even without the UA they seem to do well. Their capital is always HUUUGE too. Like double whatever my capital is.

[Motrok]

Originally Posted by Hammer Rabbi

Edit: for convenience/accommodating reasons, Motrok, try to 'hide' the screenshot in the advanced posting options. the image you used is so large that it wont fit on my monitor which requires side-to-side scrolling to read the text as it doesnt wrap to a particular width smaller than the image. its only a minor inconvenience but just a suggestion.

Can't seem to find the option. Do you happen to know the command tag? It is inconvenient even for me. Sorry.

[chazzycat]

Spoiler:

it's called "spoil"

[Motrok]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

Spoiler:

it's called "spoil"

Spoiler:

It's actually called spoiler, but that was enough for me to get it. Yhanks

[elprofesor]

[*SPOILER] [/SPOILER*]

Remove both "*".

EDIT: Gah, ninja'd.

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by Motrok

Spoiler:

It's actually called spoiler, but that was enough for me to get it. Yhanks

oh, right. i just use the little button that says spoil. that way you just have to select the text and click on the button.

[Hammer Rabbi]

haha, well there is spoiler but i also see "hide" buttons in many threads (im pretty sure). i dont post things worth spoiling/hiding often enough to know those mechanics well. glad to see them addressed. thanks.