Multiplayer - Just how OP is China? (6 Pan FFA)

slyrp · Oct 9, 2012

After quite a bit of discussion in the Multiplayer Forum, I decided to create my first Lets Play video demonstrating how to create a Cho Cho Train Rush using China. It's very effective for MP Quick speed games and probably translates pretty well in to Single Player games also.

Link to video.

Unlike the Hun Battering Ram upgrade, Spain Wonder / El Dorado unit spamming, this is not luck based, it's repeatable and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop this rush if happen to have China as your neighbor.

Any ideas on how to rebalance (but still keep the double shot, coz that's neat)?

Tabarnak · Oct 9, 2012

slyrp said:
Any ideas on how to rebalance (but still keep the double shot, coz that's neat)?

Attack China with CBs before they do.

BBMorti · Oct 10, 2012

Great you took the time to make this. I always wondered how there was next to none MP footage of Civ5.

slyrp · Oct 10, 2012

BBMorti said:
Great you took the time to make this. I always wondered how there was next to none MP footage of Civ5.

BuilderFTW has done a couple, including one of Ethiopia where he manages to defend against an unorganized El Dorado / Longbow Rush which is fun to watch - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjNv0vfriU8&feature=plcp

As for me, I plan on releasing part 2 some time this week, and then recording a couple of other videos for other map types people like playing.

smallfish · Oct 10, 2012

BBMorti said:
Great you took the time to make this. I always wondered how there was next to none MP footage of Civ5.

Tabarnak has quite a few on his channel, IIRC some games involving tommynt too. MadDjinn has a couple of duel games on his twitch account

slyrp · Oct 10, 2012

Tabarnak said:
Attack China with CBs before they do.

That maybe would work if China was following what I did to the letter. The difference between a good player and a strong player is the ability to understand that you need to adapt your strategy. For example, in our game, since i know you are a great player (even better than a strong player like myself), I researched Construction almost right away except for _one turn_ so that I could upgrade to comps with a 2 turn delay if need be. I kept a couple of scouting units to give me warning of you coming near so I had those "2 turns". Also, my policy tree decisions were different in that game (I went with the bombard one early on just in case

) I was also constantly checking the diplomacy screen to see if you had more than one city / how much cash you had. So you could do damage, maybe even take a city, but not my capital, and not enough to prevent me from getting Chos eventually and turning the tide.

As soon as you declared on the Maya, I chilled out and focused on getting Chos (hence the kinda late turn 77ish)

China doesn't mean instant win (an all out warmongering doesn't work when players team up against you), but it looks like it does mean instant loss if you happen to be their neighbor.

Anyone had experience with 1v1 with China? If so, how have you managed to beat it?

BBMorti · Oct 10, 2012

slyrp said:
That maybe would work if China was following what I did to the letter. The difference between a good player and a strong player is the ability to understand that you need to adapt your strategy. For example, in our game, since i know you are a great player (even better than a strong player like myself), I researched Construction almost right away except for _one turn_ so that I could upgrade to comps with a 2 turn delay if need be. I kept a couple of scouting units to give me warning of you coming near so I had those "2 turns". Also, my policy tree decisions were different in that game (I went with the bombard one early on just in case ) I was also constantly checking the diplomacy screen to see if you had more than one city / how much cash you had. So you could do damage, maybe even take a city, but not my capital, and not enough to prevent me from getting Chos eventually and turning the tide.

As soon as you declared on the Maya, I chilled out and focused on getting Chos (hence the kinda late turn 77ish)

China doesn't mean instant win (an all out warmongering doesn't work when players team up against you), but it looks like it does mean instant loss if you happen to be their neighbor.

Anyone had experience with 1v1 with China? If so, how have you managed to beat it?

Depending on the terrain I would expect longbows to beat them. I have never seen two players China/England toe to toe, though :v

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of some footage Slyrp and smallfish, appreciated.

slyrp · Oct 10, 2012

BBMorti said:
Depending on the terrain I would expect longbows to beat them. I have never seen two players China/England toe to toe, though :v

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of some footage Slyrp and smallfish, appreciated.

Hmm, England and China using this strategy would be an interesting battle. In an even fight, with England on defense, I think England could hold out. It wouldn't quite be an even fight, as China will have more units thanks to the money generating libraries, though I still think England should be ok.

I played a quick hotseat game, and since England has sight from his city's cutural tiles, he should be able to keep his long bows behind city lines, making them hard to take out with horses / chos. So as long as England has room, and clear territory, and can click just as fast as the other player, I think it should be pretty easy to defend against the rush.

So, China doesn't mean instant win, but it does mean instant loss if you are next to them, unless you are England

God of Kings · Oct 10, 2012

BuilderFTW played one game against TommyNT (Builder was Iroquois and TommyNT was Aztec) and it was a 4-player FFA Inland Sea game. The game is very long and very close.

Here is the conclusion of that game:

Spoiler :

apocalypse105 · Oct 11, 2012

China isn't overpowerd range units are because you aren't playing turn by turn but simuntaniously so its who shoots first

slyrp · Oct 12, 2012

apocalypse105 said:
China isn't overpowerd range units are because you aren't playing turn by turn but simuntaniously so its who shoots first

Hmm, interesting point. Has anyone played a GMR game with China?

Tabarnak · Oct 13, 2012

slyrp said:
Hmm, interesting point. Has anyone played a GMR game with China?

I can ask Islandia. Problem is that he faced a weak civ.

Islandia · Oct 13, 2012

One thing about simultaneous versus turn by turn is that you can't shoot 3 times with the CKNs before someone even gets one shot off. I think that the CKNs are a bit more balanced in GMR games, due to that but they are still very powerful. Plus they are worth less military strength than crossbows so you can build up quite a few of them in stealth mode without someone finding out.

tommynt · Oct 13, 2012

Unlike the Hun Battering Ram upgrade, Spain Wonder / El Dorado unit spamming, this is not luck based, it's repeatable and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop this rush if happen to have China as your neighbor.

Any ideas on how to rebalance (but still keep the double shot, coz that's neat)?

maybe put a competant neighbour there?

Might try it vs me - i m kinda out of duel shape but then I still can offer a decent challenge i guess

Multiplayer - Just how OP is China? (6 Pan FFA)

slyrp

Chieftain

Tabarnak

Cut your lousy hairs!

BBMorti

Warlord

slyrp

Chieftain

smallfish

Immortal

slyrp

Chieftain

BBMorti

Warlord

slyrp

Chieftain

God of Kings

Ruler of all heads of state

apocalypse105

Deity

slyrp

Chieftain

Tabarnak

Cut your lousy hairs!

Islandia

King

tommynt

Emperor

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