My Immortal 1

Dubioza · Aug 18, 2013

Hellow again! :wavey:

Before I start:

Thread theme: My Immortal
Big Thank You! to all the players that helped me improve my game, for sharing their knowledge and their patience in guiding me!
Big Sorry! for all the times I failed to see the brilliance of your advice. Yeah, I can be stubborn. A lot!

And another Sorry! for all my future stubbornness..ess. Cause we're not done yet! O no, no way! :devil:

Recently I took 2 months off to deal with RL and I returned with one game. Now I participate in SGOTM 18, but I'll try to simultaneously play more games when time will allow. Slow & steady, that's why I'll start my own game rather then bug you with old ones for god knows how long.

We came to here, but with new PC I'm thinking of starting with fresh Hall Of Fame. So as a reminder:

Spoiler Old Hall Of Fame :

Yeah I'm proud of my HoF, what can I say? You should be too, cause it wouldn't be possible without you! :high5:

Without further ado; I rolled few maps, better than this one but after playing few turns I think this one might be more fun. I'll save others for later! I know I got advice to play financial leader for first Immortal game, but I like starting custom game with leader & AI's set to random. With your help I hope I can win it!

Settings:

Immortal difficulty on Pangaea, standard size & random shoreline on normal speed. No huts & no events, kinda forum standard.

Spoiler Settings :

The Start:

Spoiler The Leader :

Spoiler Sevopedia :

Spoiler The Start :

We got Mao Zedong of China. I never played with him, one more reason to try this game! Chinese start with Agriculture & Mining, pretty good combo while Mao is Expansive & Protective. Not the best combo, but Expansive is decent trait and Protective hopefully won't be needed much in this game.

If it will be here's Chinese UU to help even further, the Cho-Ko-Nu; crossbowman with +1 extra first strike and collateral damage. This works well in aggressive defense - attacking AI's stack. With more survivability than Catapult and bonus against Melee units, Cho-Ko-Nu makes a great stack-destroyer.

UB, the Pavilion gives +25% culture more then a Theatre; good if going cultural or for culture pressuring border cities. But if you look at my old HoF again :lol:

you'll see I'm more of a warmonger then fan of culturising or whatever.

For those able to read from starting Demographics screen:

Spoiler T0 Demographics :

I'll let you discuss starting moves before revealing what I've done. If I missed something or your option will be better, I'll stay open for restarting or trying other options.

As always, feedback is much appreciated, any info & suggestions are very welcome as well as anyone playing & posting their game as long you use SPOILERS! First of all, have fun & I hope we all learn from it!

No changes have been made.

Dubioza · Aug 18, 2013

Reserved.

I use BUG & BULL in Custom Assets folder, so save works with no mods.

Doshin · Aug 18, 2013

Warrior 1W to scout out the Desert tiles (are they FPs?) or one SE to look for another resource.

I don't know if I'd move just for FPs... maybe. The first Worker will be slower by three turns, but then you can mine the hill and benefit from the boost to Workers (only :hammers:

boost the Imperialistic and Expansive trait, so +2H offers more when building Workers than a Pasture). FPs offer more food than the Sheep, which isn't a great resource on a PH.

Of course, skipping AH can mean missing out on Horses. You'll be damned whichever way you go.

Dubioza · Aug 19, 2013

Hehe thanks for the vote of confidence! :lol:

Although reviewing the game as early as 3000 BC I might have to agree! But I'm not signing capitulation just yet!

After careful fog-gazing:

Spoiler Image :

I decided to:

Spoiler :

send warrior SW. West would be as good (in terms of number of revealed tiles), but SE didn't even cross my mind - cause of all the forests it would reveal fewest tiles. Seeing all the riverside tiles and 3 FP's:

Spoiler Image :

there were 2 options: A) follow the warrior or B) 1N of him. Counting riverside tiles B would have more (17 vs. 14) but more fog-gazing warned me it would have no hills in BFC. So I chose option A and revealed another sheep nearby. Doshin's words started to ring in my head: "Skipping AH can mean missing out on Horses. You'll be damned whichever way you go."

Spoiler Images :

Worker first and as we have Agri & Mining, tech choice was between TW-Pottery (more commerce sooner) or BW (more production sooner). I'm not gonna do the math for this, it felt like BW was better option. Or maybe I got scarred of Immortal. Demographics after settling on T1:

Spoiler Image :

On T3 I noticed I moved toward my neighbor and went closer with warrior. It's WK. Until T6 I met HC and Lizzy. Great, 3 AI's met, all 3 financial. And Doshin's words started to ring again: "You'll be damned whichever way you go."

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Anyways...put my EP's on Lizzy and saw & took the opportunity to take WK's worker. Pillaged his camp and continued S with warrior, while risked sending worker on his own 2x2E & 2x2SE to Beijing. Worked forested PH in Beijing to get bonus hammers for worker.

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It worked out! WK founded Buddhism. At T14 worker was done, T16 corn was improved and I sent workers 1S, one to chop, other to farm southern FP. T17 revealed no copper near. Doshin!! Well, it might be near I just didn't scout that much. WK finally forgave me and we make peace.

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Doshin's words are still ringing so I was thinking to go AH anyways. But I need to start cottaging soon, I can't delay TW & Pottery! TW next. Just when Beijing grew to size 2, chop was done and put into settler. Continue growing on warrior while worker joined farming FP. At T21 that was finally done and they both continue to the hill. At T23 Beijing grew to size 3 and switched production to settler. T24 mine is done. First warrior is busting 2. city location, which may not be the best one, but it has corn and will have gold.

Spoiler Images :

Now it's T25 and time to review. TW is done, 1 worker will go road toward 2. city, other will chop & mine PH. Next research Pottery, after that Myst or Writing. If I'll settle next to WK, I'll need culture not just to get gold - he has religion! I need fog-busters! Hopefully they'll be able to explore some as well. After that I think I'll need AH anyways, but I really need to scout more! E & N all the food I can see needs AH and S is tundra. There is deer there tho and furs - that will be needed soon too, so maybe Hunting - Archery then? Uff so much to do, and not all can be done at once. And warriors will have to do till then!

Spoiler Images :

Dubioza · Aug 19, 2013

Choosing early production over commerce was a good choice production-wise but I feel I should have more techs by now. Maybe that's just how it is on Immortal? :dunno:

2000 BC

Spoiler :

Continued as planned, researching Pottery and sending workers to road & chop. T28 chop came in speeding up settler for a turn - but with 82 hammers already invested, it would make a good OF. Other worker finished road and put 1T into chop on that tile before moving to road further west.

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Here I emphasized food for a turn to grow to size 4 one turn faster. Send warrior to scout south with settler on the way, while worker started mining.

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T30 started another warrior using mine again, allowing growth & warrior to be done in 2 turns. With road done and settler in place to settle next turn, revolted to Slavery. New warrior sent NE and in T31 settled Shanghai with worker started improving corn on same turn. Shanghai started with a worker getting 1 hammer bonus.

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T32 mine was done and worker sent to finish that chop. T33 Beijing grew to size 4 and started on another settler. One warrior found fish south, other FP's east. Luckily he was on forested hill and defended barb warrior attack. There is a barb city NE, 3. warrior sent to scout north. T34 Pottery is done. After long deliberation what to research next, I opted for Mysticism, I'll need it in Shanghai asap (as well as certainly in some other cities) and it'd be done just in time for worker to finish.

Spoiler Images :

T35 chop was done and corn farmed in Shanghai. T36 warriors S & E are in good position to fog-bust and I whipped settler with 60 hammers invested in him. I wanted to road toward WK, but since he did it, I'll road the corn with one and cottage FP with other.

Spoiler :

I didn't calc that, I just heard that whipping settler with 60 hammers invested makes the most OF. With this one I finished Granary in 1 turn with exactly 60 production! On T38 settled Guangzhou and started on granary. It may not be the luckiest settle, but it'll work some cottages for capitol and it blocks WK from going that way. Turn later Guangzhou got Buddhism via river. Great, it'll need all the culture it can get!

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T40 Mysticism is done and I started researching AH - next settles will be east and sheep is still only food resource around for closest ~2 cities. And since I don't have copper finding horses will be handy. Against barbs at least, it's too late for chariot rush. Although I didn't have any barb trouble so far! Beijing regrew to size 4 on another warrior then worker while Shanghai built monument. Both chopped few turns later. And I decided next settle should be NE and sent worker to road & chop it.

Spoiler :

T48 whipped a granary in Shanghai, chopped a granary in Guangzhou and started on settler in Beijing after it regrew to size 5. T49 borders of Guangzhou expanded revealing HC's borders close up north. 2 chops came in Beijing.

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T50 AH is done and revealed horses on the radar. Whipped a settler (with 58 hammers invested) - looks like I chose perfect location for him and timing of chops & roads can't be much better.

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Next research probably Writing, but I'll stop to review here. After that I have no idea - no stone or marble, only horses...I guess I'll research some trading chip. I think I'm in good position and early WK's worker is helping a lot. What or who should I be worried about? No more AI's met made me check if this is Pangaea again - yes it is, so ftw? Are they so far away or are their scouts getting eaten? Maybe they're blocked somehow? Anyhow, I have some good spots I'll settle asap, pushing east. A lot of health resources means I don't have to settle strictly next to fresh water or coastal and after I grab those 2-3 happy resources it'll be great. So rexing I guess, for now. I'll deal with WK after IW or Construction. Unless...

Sorry for the weird Imageshack resizing fails.

Doshin · Aug 20, 2013

Looks very solid to me.

The only thing that leaps out is that your fog-busting is a little off (Warrior 3 is wasted right now, and the southern tundra will spawn barbs soon, because the AI won't keep their units there).

Wang and Lizzie are both very peaceful. HC is a bit of a zealot, but becomes less dangerous as the game goes on.

If you can settle all that space in the east, you should have enough good cities to win Lib. Just don't get too greedy: Lizzie is one of the few AIs that likes to target Lib, unless she builds the Shwedagon Pagoda first.

That's how I'd play this, as long as I could stay on good terms with Wang and HC.

pomthom · Aug 20, 2013

Sounds interesting, will try to shadow so we can compare games. Hope I'll be able to help!

However, through reading some of your posts you really don't strike me as someone that's going to have trouble mastering Immortal :lol:

: your micro skill looks way above mine and I win consistently at that level

Dubioza · Aug 20, 2013

Thanks you for the info and vote of confidence!

TBH I was (and still am) a bit scarred of Immortal with all the players saying jump from Emperor to Immortal is like jump from Noble to Emperor. As I'm still rookie in this game and experience is factor that can't be dismissed, I still have a lot to learn and it might take time to get use to Immortal. So first few games will probably be "getting to know the level", finding it's balance and "getting back in the zone" - cause I'm still feeling a little rusty, I'm catching myself starring at the screen longer then usual. :lol:

Even though I'll probably loose first few games I wanna start playing it, I believe I outgrew Emperor.

Onto the game:

I know my fog-busting is a bit off, there were AI units running around in southern tundra though and I wanted to scout east first. Will address that shortly. East looks very good to me, I hope I won't mess it up my weird settling. :mischief:

So yes, rex-ing in BC's then Lib race. Unless worker-steal will have greater effect, then I might do some warring too. :yup:

pomthom · Aug 20, 2013

I don't know, I really didn't experience that Emperor/Immortal jump thing... I had been stagnating at Monarch for quite some time when I stumbled upon AZ's videos. Watched 3 or 4 of them over a few days without playing and when I got back to the game I directly tried Emperor to see how I'd do: I won while playing poorly and without feeling endangered once! Since then I play only at Immortal

. Deity however... well that's another story

(as my S&T games seem to show :lol:

)

Seeing your moves I have absolutely no doubt you have what it takes for Immortal. Actually I look forward to comparing our games because your micro looks solid, and micro is (one of) the area where I really suck (especially :hammers:

micro).

I'll get to the game and write-up tomorrow!

RagingHordes · Aug 20, 2013

Good luck, Dubioza! :thumbsup:

Feels good to be able to post in your thread, what with SGOTM18 on the way...
I see the SGOTM fever has not left you unaffected - hearing Doshin's fateful haunting words over and over and over and over and over... :lol:

Dubioza · Aug 20, 2013

Yeah I love those Let's Plays! That's how I actually found this forum, started with quill18 videos that lead me to TMIT and AZ, actually even before I started playing. And Sullla's LP really helped my basics back then! Looking forward to your input, sorry for lengthy story in advance. It will get shorter, but start is the most important so I wanna let you know the details.

Playing with and learning from Doshin & the team is a great honor & really valuable experience even now, at the beginning. And fun! :lol:

pomthom · Aug 20, 2013

Dubioza said:
Playing with and learning from Doshin & the team is a great honor & really valuable experience even now, at the beginning. And fun!

I'm certainly not ready for SGOTMs but you guys sure are very entertaining to read :goodjob:

Dubioza · Aug 20, 2013

Thanks! There is room for improvement in writing skills as well. And by seing some of your games I can say you ARE ready for xOTM type games with 100% certainty. You can only improve by playing, reading and applying what you learn there!

Patchface · Aug 20, 2013

13 million bushels of food! Sounds like a lot for pop 4 but hey, you're number 1! Good writeup so far.

Patchface · Aug 20, 2013

Played through 1 AD

Spoiler :

ben-jammin · Aug 20, 2013

It's going to take you quite a while to get that gold, it's in his 3rd ring but that's a holy city. He'll undoubtedly build a temple, probably a monastery, and if he shrines it that's a lot of culture to be fighting in your second ring.

pomthom · Aug 21, 2013

Played up to 1880 BC (so just 3 turns more than you) and yowza how far behind am I!?!

Interesting how small choices snowball in completely different openings... write-up coming next

Dubioza · Aug 21, 2013

Patchface so your saying I should've cottaged FP in capitol instead of farming it? Food > commerce early game, right? It allowed faster units, faster cities...it can be changed later to a cottage. Looking at it now, it's freaking Immortal and I'm already paying for units & will have problems even with teching Writing! So maybe you're right, maybe I should've go commerce before production..
Edit: Could you attach a save of your game? To compare when I get to 1AD?

ben-jammin Thanks, I thought about that. Solution: :hammer:

The way I scouted & started I had no other option but to settle that city, it was the best revealed site. For now, I think you're right, I'll have to get eastern gold. I played through Writing, will update shortly.

pomthom Interested! :yup:

pomthom · Aug 21, 2013

ben-jammin said:
It's going to take you quite a while to get that gold, it's in his 3rd ring but that's a holy city. He'll undoubtedly build a temple, probably a monastery, and if he shrines it that's a lot of culture to be fighting in your second ring.

I agree. As we say in French: "tu n'es pas prête d'en voir la couleur!"

And as you say, there's always this:

Dubioza said:
Solution:

Didn't settle that city myself and I don't really like the spot, but it has a very important quality that I find very hard to evaluate/quantify in Civ IV: it denies land to your closest neighbour...

Dubioza · Aug 21, 2013

Ok short turn-set, decision time. I'd like to play it without reloads and stuff, but for learning it might be better to do it with SGOTM type testing? Not as elaborate though.

What do you think?

1680 BC

Spoiler :

Queued up a worker in Guangzhou to put a chop in, next turn will swap it with warrior to continue growing. Similar thing with Beijing, put OF in another settler, then resume growing on warrior. On T52 settled 4. city, Nanjing. Started with worker, worked forested plains hill until worker improved horses.

Spoiler Images :

Had to decrease slider to 40% for a turn and was doing this (next image) to avoid unit maintenance at least until I finish Writing. And cause I don't need more warriors really and another settler so soon would be too soon too.

T55 borders of Shanghai expanded and I went to chop that tile before WK get it. Also, Judaism was founded and WK settled city on northern ivory.

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Now is T58 and Writing is in. Queued Libraries in border cities (maybe I should put a Monument in one that doesn't have it too?)

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What next? To go to eastern gold and do some binary while waiting to decide next tech or another diversion to Hunting first and settle furs? I'd really like some happy resources asap, to be able to work ~2 tiles for capitol and some specs in those satellite cities. The problem with going east is that it would ruin another satellite city east of capitol or require Monument first to get the gold. Or would be too far for next city if I'd squeeze later another in between (1E or 1NE of sheep). Then it can't be on marked spot, would have to be further east on a FP with keeping in mind that it doesn't ruin crab spot. Or should I go to crab spot, between crab, wheat & gold? How would you do it?
Satellite city could be S of sheep too, but it would ruin city 1N of fish. As always, I'm having trouble deciding city spots...
Edit: Actually, marked spot next to gold is a bad one, so...

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Spoiler Info Screens :

My Immortal 1

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Drive & Reverb

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