Afrikaner/Zulu Civilization

You might expected it - yeap, this thread is made to discuss and make Afrikaner, Boer or Zulu Civilization modmod.

Let's start with previous suggestions.

Shayhon said:

Inspired by a post from Sovietman in one of the main threads and the fact that Leoreth seems in a mood of putting decolonized civs into the game, I thought I'd take my chance and present you guys my ideas for a South African civilization, or better a Boer/Afrikaner civ.
I don't think it should represent the whole of South Africa nor should it be a very succesful civ or expand to much when not played by human player.

Spawn some time between 1830 and 1850 in either Pretoria or Bloemfontein (I am not sure the Dutch have this in their settler map though).


UP: The Power of the Voortrekkers: Free tile improvements when a city is built or borders expand.

This is to simulate the importance of the Trekboers, since they were experienced farmers and went to buy land from the natives (sometimes under dubious circumstances) and started to cultivate it for later arrivals.


UB: Plaas: Replaces Castle, + 1, doesn't require walls, doesn't obsolete with economics.

Plaas is the Afrikaans word for farm and during the phase of settling the country they acted in a similar way to castles, protecting families and sometimes whole villages.
I added the economics part so you can actually use it, despite the late spawn date.


UU: (Haven't found a good name yet, still looking): Replaces Grenadeer

About this one I'm not sure yet, I was thinking about something to represent the Anglo-Boer wars and the fact that the Boers were quite succesful in using guerilla techniques. Unfortunately I also don't yet know what atributes are best suited for the UU.


UHVs: 1.Kill X European units by 1902 (End of the second Anglo-Boer war)
2. Maintain 100 % Boer culture in your cities in year X (since they start relatively late with one city this might be challenging or not)
3. Acquire 10 (or maybe more) mineral resources by year X
These are all the mining resources, to represent South Africa's rich soil.

I have two other UHVs in mind in case these are not good:
Own X slaves in X (to represent the harsh treatment of the native people/Apartheid)
or just the plain "No european colonies in Southern Africa".

I think this civilization could be a very interesting one to play simply because it is different from the other newly added ones. The boers did not fight wars for gaining independence but for keeping it, making it the only european civilization to resist colonization (for some time). On the other hand they behaved a lot like the colonizing civs.

Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

civ_king said:

Leaders:
Andries Pretorius at beginning
Paul Kruger in 1880
Nelson Mandela with Universal Suffrage and Egalitarianism


1) Kill 20 native units by 1900
2) Acquire 7 gems by 1930
3) Acquire a nuclear weapon by 1970

what they require

1) Military (represents early Boer history)
2) Expansion (Five in Sub-Saharan Africa and 2 in West Africa or get Luxury Industry and buy them) (represents early 20th century Boer/South African history)
3) Technology (represents (Mid-20th century South African history)

UB:
UU: Laager 14, 2:movement:, Guerilla 1 & II, Drill 1 (or 1 first strike), +50% defense, replaces machine gun.

Click to expand...

Wondering Kid said:

Well, a Boer Civ as a conditional spawn if The Netherland's stability is below stable would do the trick. They'd be fun to play if Congo was beefed up a bit so that they actually become real contenders for Africa. And if there were even more European cities to "liberate", representing South African meddling in other African nations during the Cold War; or even a new African Civ (or respawns) it would make the Boer Civ a good addition.

Also, it'd be good to have South Africa actually have to fight for their Core Cities safe for Cape Town, to represent the Boer Wars, instead of just flipping the whole place for them.

I'd suggest for them to have the following UHVs

-Make South Africa the wealthiest country in the world, the most populated in Africa and have no Europeans in South Africa before 1930.
-Develop a Nuclear Weapon before 1950
-Liberate more than 5 cities outside your Core Area and have more Gems than any other Civ before 1990.

Click to expand...

The most important problem is that current South African Republic has various ethnic groups. I think it will better combine Zulu, Afrikaner and Boer history some what properly.

Spawn date: 1910 will be too late. Mid 19th century or 1652
Starting Point: Pretoria or Capetown


UP: There was only one suggestion before (at least in my quotations upthere)


UB: Plaas idea seems good. Any ideas?
UU: Something that represent Afrikaner's strategy/speciallity in Boer war will be best. Or maybe Zulu ones?

UHV: I think previously proposed ones are somewhat unrealistic or controversial. Let's discuss about it.

Leader: Let me sail the Ocean of Leader graphics

The Zulus are something other and IMO this civilization should be only Afrikaner/Boer. Starting date: 1854.

Still African natives are major population in South African Republic, but for gameplay-wise it might be appropriate to follow only Afrikaner/Boer history.

I like this idea, atleast it will make africa more challenging to colonize for the europeans, also it doesnt interact badly with Portuguese and English UHVs for the colonies and gives Ethiopia another ally for their UHV aswell, the no colonies one.

I am happy about this and support it

And, a question. Am I need to merge it with Australia mod? Or make it separated?

Novicenoble said:

And, a question. Am I need to merge it with Australia mod? Or make it separated?

Click to expand...

I would combine them and allow the human player to decide if both are included or not. (like you can disable Tibet)

Can you modularize them? C++ files need bunch of works to combine, and merged c++ files will be easier to work.

Nope. You have to include both civs in the DLL.

Hmm. One DLL means I need to merge two mods anyway.

Well, I am gladly surprised you mentioned me as a suggestion to take into consideration. Cheers pal! Although, having done some reading afterwards, I think I might need to readdress some points. i didn't feel like doing my Business Law homework on time anyway.

Hmm, see, from these three suggestions I think we could take out some elements...

First of, we should decide whether South Africa is a conditional or a fixed spawn; if the player chooses to start with another civ at another starting year that is. Before we move on, I propose making South Africa a Civ to be chosen only for the 1700AD starting year. Doing anything but that might be... well... not advisable.

But I digress, thing is, the British and the Dutch tend to colonize spots that well, are not precisely "iconic" nor appropriate, which limits South African development as a colony (and in this case, Civ). Add it to the point that Johannesburg, Pretoria and Bloemfointain are so close to each other; we'd have to choose one of them.

What I know for sure is that, if the player chooses to play as South Africa, Cape Town ought to be (auto?) settled and controlled by the British. It needs also to be well developed, and well protected. It has to be conquered by the Player.

In any case, I'd say putting Pretoria (Next to the copper) as the nominal spawn point, at some year between 1850 and 1860. The Player would need to go and settle Durban as to gain access to the sea. Whether they get a second settler or not, I do not know.

After a few turns, the British (or whomever owns Cape Town really) should declare war on them; for representing the Boer Wars. At the same time, the Player would need to be attacked by Native Impi stacks. Won't be easy.

If you want to make it even harder, throw in Pombos and Oromo warriors bearing Zulu/Xhosa names.

That's when Shayhon's suggestions come in.

UP: The Power of the Voortrekkers: Free tile improvements when a city is built or borders expand.

This is to simulate the importance of the Trekboers, since they were experienced farmers and went to buy land from the natives (sometimes under dubious circumstances) and started to cultivate it for later arrivals.

UB: Plaas: Replaces Castle, + 1, doesn't require walls, doesn't obsolete with economics.

Plaas is the Afrikaans word for farm and during the phase of settling the country they acted in a similar way to castles, protecting families and sometimes whole villages.
I added the economics part so you can actually use it, despite the late spawn date.

The UU would need to be one that replaces the Rifleman, with some of civ_king's suggestions: 14 STR, 2 movement, and either Guerilla I & II or Drill 1 (or 1 first strike).

The goals, however, would be as he suggested:

1) Kill 20 native units by 1900 (Alt: Make South Africa the wealthiest country in the world, the most populated in Africa and have no Europeans in South Africa before 1910)
2) Acquire 7 gems by 1930 (Alternatively mineral resources, although that might be too easy)
3) Acquire a nuclear weapon by 1970 (Alt: Liberate -Euros would need to have more cities over there- more than 5 cities outside your Core Area -which need include two cities in what is now Namibia, and another one in what is now Botswana) and have more Gems than any other Civ before 1990)

They represent:

1) Military (represents early Boer history)
2) Expansion (Five in Sub-Saharan Africa and 2 in West Africa or get Luxury Industry and buy them) (represents early 20th century Boer/South African history)
3) Technology (represents (Mid-20th century South African history)

For the voices, well, mix some of the Dutch and Zulu sound bytes and there you go (unless you speak Afrikaans/Xhosa?)

I think that would be it for now, you go pick the Leader as you've stated. Best of luck, looking forward to see what comes out of this! Now, time to go my dreaded homework...

Thanks for information! It will take some times to start from ground again, but I will keep follow nice ideas that given to forum.

Free improvements is a bit too powerful in my opinion (also, which improvements?). Voortrekkers is a good UP concept but instead it should give a free worker in every acquired city.

A defensive UU that either replaces Grenadiers or Riflemen makes sense. Guerilla is an appropriate promotion.

I like the UHV idea, especially collecting Gems sounds like fun and is a must for this civilization. I would make the nuclear weapons goal more ahistorical and let them be the first to build an ICBM, shouldn't be too hard.

The Zulu would need to be an actual challenge to make this work, though. Impis need to be reworked in this case (it good idea for accuracy in any case), so that they are a threat to 19th century units, which of course means that the normal native spawns need a new unit type.

No idea about the UB but maybe also something diamond oriented?

Nevermind.

Wondering Kid said:

First of, we should decide whether South Africa is a conditional or a fixed spawn; if the player chooses to start with another civ at another starting year that is. Before we move on, I propose making South Africa a Civ to be chosen only for the 1700AD starting year. Doing anything but that might be... well... not advisable.

But I digress, thing is, the British and the Dutch tend to colonize spots that well, are not precisely "iconic" nor appropriate, which limits South African development as a colony (and in this case, Civ). Add it to the point that Johannesburg, Pretoria and Bloemfointain are so close to each other; we'd have to choose one of them.

Click to expand...

I think a conditional spawn, depending on any European colony in Cape Town, would be good. I once tinkered with world builder a bit (see the master map thread) and added an additional column to South Africa. With that it was quite easy to have 2 or 3 Boer cities with the same amount of European colonies. I would also like to include Namibia and Zimbabwe into the historical area, the first obviously was occupied by SA for a time, the second had a large English and Afrikaans population.

Wondering Kid said:

What I know for sure is that, if the player chooses to play as South Africa, Cape Town ought to be (auto?) settled and controlled by the British. It needs also to be well developed, and well protected. It has to be conquered by the Player.

Click to expand...

I like this suggestion a lot. Also the one about the Native stacks.

Wondering Kid said:

The UU would need to be one that replaces the Rifleman, with some of civ_king's suggestions: 14 STR, 2 movement, and either Guerilla I & II or Drill 1 (or 1 first strike).

Click to expand...

There was once this idea about some kind of waggon (Boer-Laager) to replace the machine gun. It would be unique, don't think we have a machine gun replacement yet?

Wondering Kid said:

For the voices, well, mix some of the Dutch and Zulu sound bytes and there you go (unless you speak Afrikaans/Xhosa?)

Click to expand...

I actually do Well, Afrikaans at least, and the essential bits of Zulu...

Really? How awesome! Of course, I'm biased, since I'm Dutch, but Afrikaans is a cool language.

I went to school in South Africa for a few years and had classes in both English and Afrikaans. I used to call it "Drunk Sailor's Dutch" though, since German is my first language (kind of)

I submit

Leaders:
Andries Pretorius at beginning
Paul Kruger in 1880
Nelson Mandela with Universal Suffrage and Egalitarianism

UB: Plaas (suggested above)
UU: Laager 14, 2, Guerilla 1 & II, Drill 1 (or 1 first strike), +50% defense, replaces machine gun. Machine gun was decided because the fortified nature of the machine gun matches with the fortified nature of the laager.
UP: A free worker with each city built and first culture expansion (hidden buff to worker speed).


1) Kill 20 native units by 1900
2) Acquire 7 gems by 1930
3) Acquire a nuclear weapon by 1970

what they require

1) Military (represents early Boer history)
2) Expansion (Five in Sub-Saharan Africa and 2 in West Africa or get Luxury Industry and buy them) (represents early 20th century Boer/South African history)
3) Technology (represents (Mid-20th century South African history)


1) they'd need to resist Impis,
2) They'd need to expand into Central Africa, Kenya/Tanzania and either West Africa to get the Gems or acquire the Luxury Industry (De Beers) to monopolize the Gems. Using military to get those Gems would further #1 and also #3 because of commerce
3) They'd need to invest heavily in tech and either get Gabon's Uranium or Madagascar's Uranium which incidentally would further #1

As you can see I deliberately made the goals a) historical and b) interlocking such that multiple can be further simultaneously.

I'd have them spawn inland in either the Orange Free State or the Transvaal. They'd have to take Kaapstad. Their primary cities would be Pretoria, Durban, Walvis Bay and Cape Town.

I'd make Impis replace Pikeman with similar strength levels.

is it available for the latest SVN?or did the mod stop?

I think there have only been concepts in this thread so far.

I forgot to write will because I copy pasted the question