Trying to figure out some common denominator for getting/not getting the badge, if you got it, can you please tell everyone:
1) Single player or Multiplayer (hot seat) game?
2) Your civ
3) Your opponent(s) civs, and whether (S)elected by you, or chosen (R)andomly by computer
4) MAP size and type
5) Your religion (and did you change name of it)
6) Opponent(s) religions
7) HOW did you get the badge? for example by sending prophet to convert enemy capital(s); by conquest, then conversion; by spread of religion, etc.
8) WHEN did you get the badge - end of turn when you converted last enemy capital? Several turns later? Only after winning game?
9) Features of your religion
10) Date you got the badge
111) Anything else "interesting" such as BNW and/or G&K running or not
I was looking through my missed achievements this afternoon and decided to see if 'We are Family' was fixed yet. Couldn't find anything to suggest it had been. Found this thread (and others like it) but still can't bring myself to use one the published saved games and didn't really like the idea of playing a one-person hot-seat just to get it either.
However, I was finally able to do it on a single-player game around turn 67. Underwhelming, but I'm glad I understand why now.
Longer description:
It was quick, religion/culture focused, two-civilization (#1 celts, #2 byzantium) game with no city-states, but all those settings make little difference. Only the map size explicitly affects it (that part is at least as-per the description). Everyone knows the achievement is bugged but it occurred to me that with the source code in the SDK, the mod community would probably now understand why. Another search didn't turn up anything specific unfortunately, so figured I'd take a look myself. Turns out, yes, it will never work as described, but it can be triggered in a few nonsensical ways, even in single player. I've not seen it explained so I'm sharing my understanding in case anyone is in a similar position (even if it is four months on from the most recent thread I could find) but also doesn't want to dig around the code. Anyone left who would be willing and able to test it for themselves?
SpoilerGory Details :
As you might guess the achievement (ACHIEVEMENT_XP1_19) is tested when a city "converts". Specifically when a current capital city (not an original capital, as I've read a few times) "converts" to your religion. Doesn't actually matter how it "converts" or who owns the city, though obviously each civilization can only have one capital at a time. Note I'm quoting "converts" because this can trigger even if the majority hasn't changed. Only the number of followers has to change, while your religion is the majority. For example, due to a re-computation because the population changed.
Test the following and stop on "achievement" or "no achievement":
If the current map size is smaller than standard: No achievement.
(Technically: the ID of 'WORLDSIZE_STANDARD' in the database >= the ID of the current map's WorldSizeType in the database...)
If the first civ is not alive: achievement!
(Quite evil: The first civ is always you in single-player I think; this would only be possible in hot-seat)
If the first civ is alive but has no capital city: achievement!
(More evil! Might be possible with complete kills turned on if you lost all your cities but still have a GP/missionary or influence elsewhere on the map to trigger a capital city conversion)
If the first civ has a capital with no religion (not even a pantheon): achievement!
(Weird one this: don't think you can do it in single-player because you would have to drop the pantheon belief from your capital after founding a religion. Pretty sure it can't happen; and you need to found the religion in order to have it spread to another capital. Possible if you're not the first player though, in hot-seat for example.)
If the first civ's capital has a religion (pantheon included) and that religion has the same database ID (pantheon is 0, buddhism is 1, etc.) as the founder of the religion that triggered this test (i.e. the active player's ID; 0 for first civ, and so on through the list, is the founder of the religion that just spread to a capital): achievement!
Otherwise: No achievement.
The test works like this because of two bugs in the "CvCityReligions::CityConvertsReligion" method.
The first is the Religious Majority test (CvReligionClasses.cpp:3276). The code confuses "Founder" with "Religion" and compares them for (in)equality, using "pNewReligion->m_eFounder" (player id) rather than "pNewReligion->m_eReligion" (religion id). Easily missed if you just skim read the code. Means you have to pair up religions and founders.
The second bug is a scope / brace in the wrong place problem (CvReligionClasses.cpp:3284/3289). The code starts by assuming the player's religion has spread to all capitals and then iterates through all of the civilization to find a contradiction. The "is alive", "has a capital", and "capital has religion" tests are intended to skip invalid/inactive civilizations in the list. The broken Religious Majority test is supposed to stop the process as soon as a valid civilizations doesn't meet the criteria, recording the fact that the spread has not happened.
Unfortunately the achievement unlock is inside the same iteration, meaning that if any of the skip conditions are true, or the broken Religious Majority test is true for the first player, then the achievement unlocks. If the broken Religious Majority test is not true for the first player, it can never unlock.
In summary:
Play on a standard or bigger map and:
--- Single-Player and Hot-Seat ---
As Player 1, with no cities, spread your religion to another player's capital city. As player 1 spread your religion to a capital city, while having a pantheon as the religious majority in your capital. (Note: Your Holy-City must be in another city, preferably far enough away to not spread quickly to the capital)
--- Hot-Seat Only ---
As player 2 spread your religion to a capital city, while having Buddhism as the religious majority in Player 1's capital.
As player 2 or above, once Player 1 is completely defeated, spread your religion (of any type) to any remaining capital city (including your own if it doesn't already follow it). There are many more possible combinations but it would take too much space to list them all.
I used the line in bold above and it worked. I've not tested the other options but am pretty sure they're correct. As far as I can tell founding a religion would be sufficient to spread it in this context, but I've not tested that either, obviously.
Lastly, I also tried to load MrOz80's save to see if my understanding matches the conditions, but I can't open it and his post doesn't give enough detail to be sure. It is also possible the code has changed since such that the source I looked at is different. If so, all bets are off. He was using Buddhism and pantheon, with two players, though, so it is conceivable it triggered on a follower count change while player 2 was active. Per the first hot-seat only option above.
Thank you notimminently for your detailed analysis of the bug! Very impressive systematic problem solving
After trying to get the achievement on my own as I understood it from the description and wasting half a day, I could complete it in 10 minutes with your help.
I just created an account here to thank you
I have tried for three days to get this achievement. All capitals on standard map or larger following my religion. I was going to kill two birds and play an easy game with Enrico. I sent out my prophets and converted all the capitals, but I still didn't get the stupid achievement. I'm wondering if it is because some poor player got wiped out early... so maybe their capital doesn't count anymore?
Norweigan Ski Infantry achievement and Barbary Coast also do this to me. I swear I do what they want me to do, but I don't get the achievement
We are family achievment is really bugged one. You can look to lua scripts or this thread for more information.
Try on standard map found a religion in your non capital city. You must have also a pantheon in capital and then spread your religion to capital. After this achievment should pop out.
For Norvegian Ski Infantry make sure quick movement is disabled.
Which one is Barbary Coast? If you mean Barbary Pirate, then this can be obtained only on vanilla game (disable all expansions).
I tried this a couple of days ago and it didn't work; I spread my religion to my own capital. Did I need to spread it to someone else's capital? I played it out; got a cultural victory and eventually spread my religion to every city in the world.
(also not sure if I was playing on a standard map or a small map, I'll have to look at one of the saves)
At least it was a fun game. Classical era start, epic speed, the Celts.
Edit: last time it was a small map. Just tried it again tonight on a standard map; made Dublin my holy city instead of Edinburgh (had to plant my first GP as a holy site to keep him from being captured by barbarians, and founded with the 2nd prophet) Picked Buddhism for my religion, and when it spread to Edinburgh, which only had my pantheon, nothing happened.
As player 1 spread your religion to a capital city, while having a pantheon as the religious majority in your capital.
(Note: Your Holy-City must be in another city, preferably far enough away to not spread quickly to the capital)
You have to spread your religion to a foreign capital before you spread it to your own?
Edit: That worked. I made Dublin my holy city instead of Edinburgh, used my 2nd GP to enhance, and then bought a missionary and converted Delhi first (which had its own pantheon but no religion yet) and then Edinburgh. It unlocked at Delhi.
I was looking through my missed achievements this afternoon and decided to see if 'We are Family' was fixed yet. Couldn't find anything to suggest it had been. Found this thread (and others like it) but still can't bring myself to use one the published saved games and didn't really like the idea of playing a one-person hot-seat just to get it either.
However, I was finally able to do it on a single-player game around turn 67. Underwhelming, but I'm glad I understand why now.
Longer description:
It was quick, religion/culture focused, two-civilization (#1 celts, #2 byzantium) game with no city-states, but all those settings make little difference. Only the map size explicitly affects it (that part is at least as-per the description). Everyone knows the achievement is bugged but it occurred to me that with the source code in the SDK, the mod community would probably now understand why. Another search didn't turn up anything specific unfortunately, so figured I'd take a look myself. Turns out, yes, it will never work as described, but it can be triggered in a few nonsensical ways, even in single player. I've not seen it explained so I'm sharing my understanding in case anyone is in a similar position (even if it is four months on from the most recent thread I could find) but also doesn't want to dig around the code. Anyone left who would be willing and able to test it for themselves?
SpoilerGory Details :
As you might guess the achievement (ACHIEVEMENT_XP1_19) is tested when a city "converts". Specifically when a current capital city (not an original capital, as I've read a few times) "converts" to your religion. Doesn't actually matter how it "converts" or who owns the city, though obviously each civilization can only have one capital at a time. Note I'm quoting "converts" because this can trigger even if the majority hasn't changed. Only the number of followers has to change, while your religion is the majority. For example, due to a re-computation because the population changed.
Test the following and stop on "achievement" or "no achievement":
If the current map size is smaller than standard: No achievement.
(Technically: the ID of 'WORLDSIZE_STANDARD' in the database >= the ID of the current map's WorldSizeType in the database...)
If the first civ is not alive: achievement!
(Quite evil: The first civ is always you in single-player I think; this would only be possible in hot-seat)
If the first civ is alive but has no capital city: achievement!
(More evil! Might be possible with complete kills turned on if you lost all your cities but still have a GP/missionary or influence elsewhere on the map to trigger a capital city conversion)
If the first civ has a capital with no religion (not even a pantheon): achievement!
(Weird one this: don't think you can do it in single-player because you would have to drop the pantheon belief from your capital after founding a religion. Pretty sure it can't happen; and you need to found the religion in order to have it spread to another capital. Possible if you're not the first player though, in hot-seat for example.)
If the first civ's capital has a religion (pantheon included) and that religion has the same database ID (pantheon is 0, buddhism is 1, etc.) as the founder of the religion that triggered this test (i.e. the active player's ID; 0 for first civ, and so on through the list, is the founder of the religion that just spread to a capital): achievement!
Otherwise: No achievement.
The test works like this because of two bugs in the "CvCityReligions::CityConvertsReligion" method.
The first is the Religious Majority test (CvReligionClasses.cpp:3276). The code confuses "Founder" with "Religion" and compares them for (in)equality, using "pNewReligion->m_eFounder" (player id) rather than "pNewReligion->m_eReligion" (religion id). Easily missed if you just skim read the code. Means you have to pair up religions and founders.
The second bug is a scope / brace in the wrong place problem (CvReligionClasses.cpp:3284/3289). The code starts by assuming the player's religion has spread to all capitals and then iterates through all of the civilization to find a contradiction. The "is alive", "has a capital", and "capital has religion" tests are intended to skip invalid/inactive civilizations in the list. The broken Religious Majority test is supposed to stop the process as soon as a valid civilizations doesn't meet the criteria, recording the fact that the spread has not happened.
Unfortunately the achievement unlock is inside the same iteration, meaning that if any of the skip conditions are true, or the broken Religious Majority test is true for the first player, then the achievement unlocks. If the broken Religious Majority test is not true for the first player, it can never unlock.
In summary:
Play on a standard or bigger map and:
--- Single-Player and Hot-Seat ---
As Player 1, with no cities, spread your religion to another player's capital city. As player 1 spread your religion to a capital city, while having a pantheon as the religious majority in your capital. (Note: Your Holy-City must be in another city, preferably far enough away to not spread quickly to the capital)
--- Hot-Seat Only ---
As player 2 spread your religion to a capital city, while having Buddhism as the religious majority in Player 1's capital.
As player 2 or above, once Player 1 is completely defeated, spread your religion (of any type) to any remaining capital city (including your own if it doesn't already follow it). There are many more possible combinations but it would take too much space to list them all.
I used the line in bold above and it worked. I've not tested the other options but am pretty sure they're correct. As far as I can tell founding a religion would be sufficient to spread it in this context, but I've not tested that either, obviously.
Lastly, I also tried to load MrOz80's save to see if my understanding matches the conditions, but I can't open it and his post doesn't give enough detail to be sure. It is also possible the code has changed since such that the source I looked at is different. If so, all bets are off. He was using Buddhism and pantheon, with two players, though, so it is conceivable it triggered on a follower count change while player 2 was active. Per the first hot-seat only option above.
Thank God for your post. I have been wondering about this achievement for a while.
So I can confirm you that your analysis is still correct, the code is still buggy, and the method you describe works perfectly well:
- Single Player
- No religion in capital (but a pantheon)
- Found a religion somewhere else on the map
- Convert another capital to my religion
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