The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #16 Siam

All games in this series will be set to IMMORTAL difficulty. User civilizations, maps, and opponents will change each game, but the pace will always be set at standard and the starting era will always be ancient. We will try for a variety of starts, and not just having a crazy warmonger as your next door neighbor (although there will be that too). This isn't a competition so there will be no predefined victory conditions. New challenges in the series will be posted every other Wednesday.

Who can play?
Anybody can play. The more the merrier. Even if you normally don't play immortal games you are still welcome to try. The games can become great learning resources for the player trying to improve. Even if you don't finish the game, we are still interested to hear about your experience.

Do's and Don'ts
We are going to be using the honor system. Feel free to restart, reload, play the same game multiple times, but don't use the science overflow exploit. Also please don't edit the game in IGE. If you do chose to cheat, please don't share your results in the comments. Also, please use the spoiler tag if you post a picture, comment about neighboring civs, close by wonders, or locations of ancient ruins.

Also, please tell us about your Build Order, Social Policies, Tech Order, and what type of wonders you went after. I know a lot of this stuff seems pretty mundane to the experienced player, but the details are incredibly useful to people trying to learn.

Future Games in the Series
I want users to submit saves from turn 0. Preferably the person submitting the game has played enough turns to know the map is either difficult, fun, or unique in some enjoyable way. Write a short description as to why it is special and email the save to immortalchallengelineup@gmail.com

Important
If you submit a game for the challenge, you must have the DLC map packs disabled. Not everybody has them and they are honestly kind of useless. Having them disabled will allow more participants.

FoY, lots of nearby CS and luxes. A warmongers dream. Am gonna push for sub-T150, if at all possible.

Won't clear the map before T150 - it's too weirdly-shaped and no-one has any money to buy my luxes to speed the thing along. Elephants and XBs should finish it, but I'm guessing around T170ish. I'm 4 down 3 to go.

No real problems, except Songhai were overseas, seemingly on their own continent. I just landed on the beach and bought open borders, walked in and shot Askia full of Cannonballs. I don't think my play was that sloppy, but there is definitely room for a much faster sweep. I'm sure Acken will do sub T160.

My Social Policies were Full Honor - Full Commerce. I built an early settler to beat Poccy to the FoY spot, then units to smash Attila before he got ideas above his station. Then I built some more units. And more units. And, when I had enough units, built Petra and The Oracle since no one had bothered. My CPT was pathetic until taking the last 2 capitals (in the last 10 turns). Less than 50 CPT. You don't need it for DomV on Immortal. Full Honor is enough. Commerce just helped a bit.

OMG that starting location. It's Immortal I'll just be happy to win and hopefully sub T300. I do have some experience as Siam but was a few patches and versions ago. I was hoping for a new challenge as I'm laid up at home for a few more days. I'll finish this and then back into a few unfinished.

Horrid spot, c'mon Bud, couldn't you reroll so we get more than 3 salt in sight? j/k

Ok Shoshone is close but can be killed pretty easily right? FoY!? ...Oh man this is going to make some players very happy. I guess I can go with Full Piety this game to make it a bit harder! Also Brussels right next door for easy early culture... actually I DOWed them immediately to farm but probably better to just ally up with them instead but of course it is not hard to flip them from enemy to ally down the road!

I wanted to mess about with Piety but I just couldn't resist Liberty with this start and FOY and close Civs. So I got the war going taking down Shoshones Capital around turn 55 and pressing into Rome now after taking Cumae and putting him to war with Assyria. I got the Huns to war with Portugal and IFE but it is taking him forever to take down IFE... I wish he would hurry that up! I think this map is a pretty good set up for early war and just plain out war the whole game with FOY, all this Salt and other Luxes around. I am just going to try to stomp this one out. I just have a hard time trying to play kb27787 peacemonger style!

I did try to get Terracotta Army but it was started a bit late missing out by 5 turns but I took the large amount of gold and bought out Brussels. Oh ya I did build the Pyramids on something like turn 43 so Exploit! Exploit! Exploit! ... which I find pillage/repair in one turn very fun and I have about 7 workers in the front lines now. It looks like Oracle will finish on turn 84 and I most likely am going to use a GE for the NC.

Well, FoY was a nice surprise... the land is a bit cramped and liberty Shoshone kinda took the spot I wanted, but I managed 3 huge cities in the end.
ToA, HG, Petra, Great wall, Oracle, Hagia, MoH, in no particular order.. ended up with 26(!) WWs.
As usual, no bulbs, no bribes, no bombs, and no conquest allowed (only liberation)


Shoshone's huge borders kinda working against them... if they send a worker out into the 3rd ring, I can take it with impunity. Settled right here (did not know FoY was there until my borders reached it!); I wanted desert for Petra and be two tiles away from mountain for certain WWs. I just took one worker and made peace (no need to beat him down too much this is on immortal)


t80 and so far Atilla has not shown any interest in coming for me (I have archers blocking the river just in case anyway) great wall built in 6 turns! Crazy strong game so far despite getting forward settled.


War... what a pathetic attack force he sent...


He offered peace without his horse archers firing a single shot.... lame.


I had planned to build twin coastal cities and make a canal city so cargo ships can reach but this stupid piece of ice ruined my idea. So I had to make do with land caravans. I had all 6 routes be internal.


Does he really think his forces stand a chance against XBs...?


Hunnic war #2 ended.


Meanwhile Assyria had taken Te-Moak and Agaidika (after crippling Rome) from Shoshone, so I DoW'd and liberated those cities back (Assyria is kind of an ass and I didn't want him as a neighbor)


War#3 ended.


War#4... Atilla simply does not quit does he?... (I already had frigates! What was he thinking attacking so close to the coast...)


Uh... well war kinda defines who you are, Atilla, but sure... I'm sure someone will pay me a good price for that city...


Got Volunteer Army and Atilla never dared rear his ugly head again. Good riddance.


Oops... I won... (didn't keep track...) Here, I haven't even finished getting everything yet...


Complete dominance--no GM concerts required, if they wanna see how awesome my music is they should send their tourists over to my lands to visit! (this is MY kind of domination victory, you dominate their people without firing a single bullet)


Reason I played on is because I wanted to see if the required culture for the next SP would go into 5 digits, or would it simply max out at 9999 like some games do... it seems it's possible to get into the 10k culture range for an SP cost.

Of course I could've won a diplo V probably several dozens of turns earlier if I had just bulbed my GSs (when the world leader vote came I simply just did not take the DV)... (but seriously as a DC player when you play on immortal it's a disgrace to win by anything other than domination or culture... and you should give the AI some sort of handicap like not bulbing and not bribing )

Moson Kahni and was advancing on Rome, I was DoW'ed by Ash and Attila, which felt like a Roman bribe. Attila had a single CB, but sent it anyway (fool). Ash gave me 2000+ gold with his sacrifices before I made peace with him, because he was the only one who I thought might not be completely sick of war after getting a thorough pasting!

Settled on spot, got some nice ruins giving me AH early which led me to research archery and actually built the ToA. Got lucky with my warrior placement as Pocahontus sent a settler to the FoY site so I took the free worker. Settled my 2nd city on the desert hill to the North in range(3rd ring) of FoY(natural border growth went for it instantly didn't even need to buy it). Managed to get the Petra in that city after delaying it by 10 turns to get the library done first. 3 city-states wanted HG and no one else went Tradition so built it before NC, 3rd city on the coast to the East of FoY. NC at around T105, 4th city on the coast to the West near Brussels.

Was the last to a pantheon(earth mother) but still managed to get the 3rd religion(tithe, pogoda, +2ftp wonders, 30% further influence). World congress took forever to be started as Askia was only on his continent and no one could find him(happy it wasn't a culture runaway). Proposed world religion and slowly converted my neighbors to my religion(fighting Portugal's religion, but now have a strong hold on Shoshone and Huns cities). 13 turns til vote hoping I can pass it(never been able to pass world religion ever same with the +5cpt from world wonders).

Policies so far: Tradition(5), Patronage(20 resting point), Aesthetics(5), Rationalism(opener).

Wonders: ToA, HG, Oracle, HS, FP, Globe Theatre, Uffizi in capital and Petra, LToP, Sistine Chapel in FoY city.

Portugal will be tough to crack, might have to use a few GM on her.

I didn't find FoY until t27, LOL. I saw messages talking of a surprise, so I assumed it was Attila next door. I settled a river hill W of start, in range of 3 salt and incense. Once I found FoY I started building a Settler at pop 2 to make sure I nabbed it. Built 2nd one at pop 4 to get a W coast spot before Poc stole a bunch of land. Apparently both he and Attila settled away from me - my scouting is horrid because I kept units to block Poc.

Got ready to settle E in Attila's face after building 6+ Archers to prep for a good defensive war, but he snuck a Settler past me and settled 5 S of his cap but NOT on the coast - argh! So my defensive war became offensive - I was able to get 4 CB upgrades and started pounding him, but he had so many Rams that it was useless to take the city because I knew he could take it right back and I'd lose my upgraded Spear. Probably a 10 turn war, getting more upgrades, building 1-2 more CBs and a Pike... He had quite a few Warriors and probably fielded 8 Rams (he had an early war with Maria up N I guess). But only 1 HA, huh??? Finally took it and have been cleaning up his army and could easily take his cap now. Not sure I want more hate, I was going to play pretty peacefully. Poc's cap also looks ripe - both caps have some nice lux. Hmmmm. I am tempted to plop a 5th city near the marble NE of FoY to get whatever sea routes may be there.

I was set for a quick NC with my 3 cities very early for me, but suddenly had wonder plums dancing in my head, so went for ToA (t61) and HG (t87) first. I screwed myself by forcing an early Library out W while stuck at pop 2 - but not building NC for 20-30 turns, LOL. Am now trying for Borobudur. Got Petra hard-built in FoY city (t106), which really surprised me. So my growth is actually TOO good.

Went full Tradition, but took wonder boost as 3rd policy. I have Patronage opened, will likely take Consulates next, then maybe try to fill Piety. Full Rat makes Immortal too easy - Austria game I only let myself go 2 into it, it seems more fair to not allow that until Industrial.

Late to Pantheon (Earth Mother) but got 4th religion, and only Cathedrals had been taken! Took Tithe and Pagodas, hope to Enhance soon and get another building. With all this food a Wide Tradition might not work as well as normal, but I guess there are a lot of hills to work.

I played the end game very poorly. I had my cont wiped out basically by around turn 165 and I took the long way on the backside across the ocean to move my troops. I played really bad taking one of Songhai's cities and gave it away for free when I should of not worried about the unhappy and started to citatdel bomb Gao since I had 5 GGs.

Anyway I had to take peace and I got a city and he gave me open borders so I could move the troops over and upgrade. Very nice of him. After that I took down a few cities onto the capital and won on turn 269. If I would of thought about it instead of just rushing I think I would of finished around turn 220. No Civ, including myself, got to get into Ideology this game

Pretty easy map for Warmongering though but fun for me until I made a mess out of the end. I guess for a bonus I did finish before the Modern Era but that isn't so great since I did not get to play with all those fun units. I guess I felt like beating a baby seal as kb27787 says !

4 city tradition. which became 5 city when Attila attacked and I retaliated by taking his cap and ending his life, and then 6 cities when I stupidly built a coastal city down south of the furs think I needed to buy a caravel but my scout at see was adequate.