Wonder why they chose a British monarch i.e. Queen Victoria, to represent England, when they could have chosen a pre-1707 figure such as Queen Elizabeth I who ruled England (and not Scotland) for 45 years. Happy that England is in the game, thus allowing Scotland to be added at some point. However, slightly baffled as to why they chose Victoria.
England vs United Kingdom discussion
- Thread starter paulmclem
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Kouvb593kdnuewnd
Left Forever
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Victoria's rule symbolism the peek of the british empire. During Elizabeth I England was pretty weak and had rather little influence. Nations like the Republic of Neatherlands was the truly naval and trade powers during her time and beyond.
During Victorian time United Kingdom was the most dominant country in the world.
During Victorian time United Kingdom was the most dominant country in the world.
So why then have her representing England and not Great Britain? Although, as I said I'm happy for this to be the case as it leaves Scotland free to be a future CIV
DeutschDachs
Emperor
But the UK is pretty English dominated...
sonicmyst
Emperor
So why then have her representing England and not Great Britain? Although, as I said I'm happy for this to be the case as it leaves Scotland free to be a future CIV
IIRC the greeting message of Queen Victoria in the leader screen mentions that she is the queen of Great Britain.
Interesting. All a bit weird, but I do understand the world's confused view of the UK. There aren't many places like us i.e. in essence 4 separate countries (especially Scotland and England) which come together under one banner for some things (Olympics) but not others - Football, Rugby etc.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
The UK is Great Britain + Northern Ireland, no? So I don't see the issue with Victoria and calling the civ England. I mean, "United Kingdomese Empire" wouldn't really work as a civ name, and even "United Kingdom" sounds far too much a nation than a civ (the same criticism could be leveled at the United States, but that's a separate matter). Perhaps people would be happier to have Henry V or something leading the English, with little to no representation of the modern United Kingdom?
SJSerio
Centurion
What about calling a Civ Germany when the leader chosen to represent them is from HRE? Does it really matter?
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Amightymuffin
Chieftain
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yea its a little wierd its not UK or GB but i guess that is the world view that the UK = England
would prefer it changed to GB or UK however
stealth_nsk
Deity
England here is the name of the civ, UK or GB are country names. That's the difference and it's ok. There were never countries officially called America, Russia or China. Still they are totally valid civilization names.
Not sure I agree with your comparisons. However, time to move on. I'll just need to wait until a Scotland CIV exists and then roll over England when I'm good and ready
yea its a little wierd its not UK or GB but i guess that is the world view that the UK = England
would prefer it changed to GB or UK however
Actually rather than being an insult at Wales/Scotland/Ireland, this is probably a well intended effect of them planning to add a celtic nation to the game.
Possibly right. Not that fussed they did what they did. Was just interested to know why. I'd like to think it wasn't historical ignorance of our septic isle.
SMcM
Emperor
Please tell me you are joking! Ever heard of the 'British Empire'?
Anyway, I think that they always call British empire 'English empire' because it was England dominated. Same way Austria-Hungary was Austrian empire in Civ V. Only problem is that Britain is arguably one culture, unlike AH (Some would say Scots nationalism exists due to the revival of a long dead culture, Scotland had previously ceased to exist as a distinct nation, and Wales the same).
Firebug
Not-so Great Engineer
England is the head of the UK government and the former British Empire. Parliament is found there, and the ruler resides there. There are seperate parliaments for the other parts of the UK, but they're still considered lesser then the main parliament and only control their own 'country'.
We'd probably be viewed a lot more dimly if we didn't give Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland some democratic freedoms.
You don't ask why Roosevelt is leading America and not the United States of America, either.
Also, Civilizations are never named after their full title (Kingdom Of, United States of, etc.).
We'd probably be viewed a lot more dimly if we didn't give Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland some democratic freedoms.
You don't ask why Roosevelt is leading America and not the United States of America, either.
Also, Civilizations are never named after their full title (Kingdom Of, United States of, etc.).
criZp
Deity
British Empire is what it should be, easy enough to fix that in the settings thought.
Amightymuffin
Chieftain
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im sure it is but we still (for the moment anyway) have a UK and people are still able to talk about each country individually so not really sure that a strong enough reason to use England instead of UK.
had they been using a pre-UK ruler then it makes sense but it just kinda stands out as being wierd to have it as it currently is. Hopefully firaxis may see it and change it ?
Firebug
Not-so Great Engineer
I just figured the real reason why it's England and not the United Kingdom.
The Royal Navy has always been a predominantly English thing, it wasn't named the Royal Navy all the time, but varying versions of it existed before the UK did - So the Royal Navy Dockyard is an English unique.
The Sea Dogs were authorised by ELIZABETH I OF ENGLAND, so they aren't UK either. so again, the Sea Dog is an English unique.
The British Museum - the name is misleading. It's found in England. This is the debateable one however, since it could also be said to be UK since the majority of UK countries are found on Great Britain.
That leaves the Redcoat. this is Victoria's unique. and Victoria and the Redcoat are the only 2 uniques that link to the United Kingdom and the British Empire. These would change with an Alternate leader.
This means any alternate leader for England in the future is entirely open to be an English leader. Calling the civilization United Kingdom would restrict any future leaders to UK rulers and politicians. naming it England allows for English Kings and Queens and even Cromwell.
Similiarly, naming it British Empire would restrict alternate leaders to rulers of the Empire.
The Royal Navy has always been a predominantly English thing, it wasn't named the Royal Navy all the time, but varying versions of it existed before the UK did - So the Royal Navy Dockyard is an English unique.
The Sea Dogs were authorised by ELIZABETH I OF ENGLAND, so they aren't UK either. so again, the Sea Dog is an English unique.
The British Museum - the name is misleading. It's found in England. This is the debateable one however, since it could also be said to be UK since the majority of UK countries are found on Great Britain.
That leaves the Redcoat. this is Victoria's unique. and Victoria and the Redcoat are the only 2 uniques that link to the United Kingdom and the British Empire. These would change with an Alternate leader.
This means any alternate leader for England in the future is entirely open to be an English leader. Calling the civilization United Kingdom would restrict any future leaders to UK rulers and politicians. naming it England allows for English Kings and Queens and even Cromwell.
Similiarly, naming it British Empire would restrict alternate leaders to rulers of the Empire.
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