Classic 33: First Spoiler (end of ancient age)

Classic 33: Spoiler 1 - end of ancient age.

This is the first spoiler for GOTM 33: Greece.

Given that this month's map is a pangea, you should have been able to make contact with all civs and also have a fairly-comprehensive map by the end of the ancient age. There may be some isolated black areas remaining, but the requirements for this first spoiler are:

1. Contact with all civs (or their remains)
2. 'World Map': At minimum showing the locations of all other cities. The map should also show the outline of the lobe of the map that you started on.

We will allow some leniency regarding how much 'black' area there is, but please don't read these spoilers if you haven't uncovered most of the map.

Screenshots are fine, but please avoid any that show the locations of middle-age or later resources.


The initial starting position gave you the option of settling near the jungle, or looking for something better. What did you do? Would you have settled somewhere else in hindsight?

The extra civs than normal on a standard map shouldn't have crowded you too much, as you still had a bit of room to move. But were you neighbours uncomfortably close? Did you manage to beat them to secure key strategic resources and luxuries?

OPEN PTW 1.27

I sent my Worker NE and then the Settler N. The Settler moved one more square N and then founded Athens. I still think that was the best move. Of course, with all the land to the S and SE I might have moved differently if I had known at the time, but who did.

The Worker mined and then roaded the BG. Then connected the Wines and went to the Deer forest and started chopping.

I built 2 Warriors and sent them exploring. Then started a Granary prebuild. My Warriors didn’t meet anyone until 2750 when India showed up. In 2670 I met China. Started trading with each of them and managed to do pretty well.

Built my first Settler in 2190 and founded Sparta to the NE of Athens. Here is a picture at that time: Well, no image because the server is down.

I didn’t meet any other civ until 1725 when all of a sudden Korea showed up on the diplomacy screen. That started a round of trading that gave me contact with Korea, Rome, Arabs and Egypt. In 2 more turns I had contact with everyone and also had tech parity. At that point tech parity was Horseback Riding, Mysticism, Writing and Iron Working. I was researching Philosophy at 40 turns.

1425 was another trading turn. In that year I got Philosophy and Math. Only the Arabs were ahead of me with Code of Laws.

At this point it became clear that I was going to have to expand to the S and SE. However, my production was very slow. I had little cash as I had traded most of it away for techs. Before I could build up any reserves another trading turn materialized in 1325. This was a good one because Map Making was available. The tech pace was fast and the other civs were trading techs with abandon. I first traded World Maps with as many civs as possible. At first all I could get was their Territory Map, but soon they were giving me their WM and gold. By the end of the turn I had all the gold except for Spain who was able to keep 3. I had also traded for Map Making and Code of Laws and had tech parity again.

In 1200 the first war started, between Rome and the Arabs. Korea joined in for a while, but soon tired of it. This war sapped the strength of both Rome and the Arabs, who had been big powers before it started. Soon they were 3 techs behind everyone else.

By 1000 BC I was in last place with only 6 cities. I spread out toward the south to capture Horses and to try to get the Iron on the south coast. As a result, I could not generate enough Settlers to build in the SE and the Chinese started to settle there. They got the Furs just before me. Unfortunately, a lot of my trading was for gpt and that has left me poor.

In 875 I entered the Middle Ages after trading for Polytheism with the French. I got Feudalism as my free tech. Traded Poly to Korea for a pittance. They got Mono but would not trade. Otto appeared to go into the MA but got no free tech??

Also in 875 China and India enter the MA and trigger massive barb uprisings all along my south coast. This causes me no end of grief for a long time after. I still had not secured the Iron to the south and the barb uprising was preventing me from getting there. Meanwhile a Chinese Galley is heading south along the east coast. Are they headed for the Iron and Ivory???

Here is a picture of the current world.

The opening move was worker NE, then settler NW. This of course revealed the river and the wines. I moved the settler NE then N to settle by the river. The worker mined and roaded the bonus grass then iriigated and roaded the two wines. I meanwhile produced three warriors, then a hoplite, then a settler, then a granary. The hoplite was for MP and to leave some protection at home.

The warriors headed off east, north and west in that order, so contacts came thick and fast. I met China, India and Korea quickly, and the rest came via contacts trading. By trading for contacts first, and then techs, I was able to broker to rapidly catch up. This led to a fast tech pace.

The second city built a barracks while the first completed the granary. This meant I could build a hoplite to protect each settler from Athens. However, the best I could do was a six turn settler pump.

I claimed the furs fairly quickly. My eastern explorer turned south when he hit ocean, however, some angry barbs shortened his days rather prematurely, so I was unaware of the goodies to the south for some time.

At 1000BC, I had
7 cities (due to slow pump)
1 warrior
1 worker
1 archer
8 hoplite
1 granary
2 barracks
All AA required techs except Construction, plus lit, no gov techs yet.

I earlier refused an Ottoman demand that sent us to war, and although it was a phony war, I am thinking that this was a mistake, because as one of the two scientific civs (other than us), I wanted their bonus MA tech. I was also hoping to get into a better government prior to entering the MA. However, in 925BC there is a massive barbarian uprising, signalling that another civ has entered the MA, so I immediately brought construction to enter the MA myself.

I picked up Engineering. The Koreans got Monothesim, and I was unable to trade for mono.

Whilst this is a fast entry to the MA, I lacked a government tech, and so was still despot, I lacked either iron or horses and didn't have that many cities. Also the barbs were to be quite a menace for many centuries thereafter!

1.29 open

Playing in the SGOTM has taught me both how to keep good notes and even more importantly, the value of keeping them. A side benefit of doing this is I now have enough info on my game to post my first GOTM spoiler.

Initially I sent my worker NE. The air must have been thin on that mountaintop though because my worker saw absolutely nothing. The settler moved NW. That was more like it. Two vinos and my settler could soak his feet after that long walk. The settler continued N and spied the game. I finally settled Athens in 3850 bc after moving three tiles. The most I've ever moved.

The worker mined/roaded the BG and chopped the forest prior to connecting the wines. I built 2 warriors and sent them exploring W and E. Then started a granary pre-build.

The city of Athens got fat and happy on wine and game, so fat that they didn't send the first settler out until 2070 bc when Sparta was built at RCP 4, N of Athens.

In 3350 bc I contacted India and in 3050 bc, China. After researching pottery at max I shut off research temporarily. Began a round of trading and picked up WC, masonry, CB, IW.

I foolishly sent the W warrior NW, spotted Egypt's borders and realized I should have went SW. Because of this I didn't meet all civs until 1400 bc and found that I was considerably behind in tech. I decided to gamble and go for construction and turned my research back on. In 1350 bc during a very productive trading round I picked up wheel, mysticism, HBR, MM, code of laws and philosophy and WMs. In the end, I only ended up paying -4 gpt and about 25 gold. I was now at parity with all civs except China who was up poly.

At this point it was clear that I would have to build S to gain horses and iron.

In 1325 bc I created embassies in India and Rome. I had planned to make India civ 1 on my hit list and this sealed the deal. Pyramids due in 22. Rome's location blocking the channel between the two halves of the landmass made them an obvious ally in the wars to come until I needed access to the other side. Until then I would command their troops, through MAs, to throw themselves on my enemies swords. I had been nurturing a relationship with Mao as a trading partner and he started the first war with India around 1400 bc.

At 1000 bc my world looked like this:




1000 bc stats:
7 cities
1 settler
7 workers
8 warriors
4 hoplites
19 pop
4 barracks
1 temple
1 granary

At this point I was 8th in land area, 5th in productivity but first in pop.

In 900 bc I traded poly, code of laws and lit for construction and bought currency. Upon entering the MA I learned monotheism but still lacked a government and sparked a massive barb uprising to the south.

open ptw

I had MAJOR problems with barbarians in the beginning. Like almost everybody I moved north to settle by the river. First I built a bunch of warriors to scout. All of them were killed by barbs which then started to invade my territory and pillage most improvements -while my defending warriors lost most battles to them. This threw my production so far back I never really recovered....

Anybody have problems with barbs in the beginning?

Plenty of barbs in the jungles. I avoided them until I could escort settlers with 2 Hoplites each.
All other civs that tried getting in there were quickly destroyed by the massive build-up of barbs (huge stacks of Horsemen).
My Hoplites handled them easily - becomming Elite.

I stayed peacful the entire Ancient Age. I got Writing first allowing for major trading and catch-up with Tech (I was astounded at the tech pace).
I then got Literature first, and this was a HUGE trade - ALL contacts and once again Tech Parity and ahead of a couple civs in Tech.

The cheap Libraries were built immediately to keep within arms reach of the madly trading rivals.

I entered the Middle Age in Despotism with no Horse, no Iron, and about 4 Techs behind. The outlook was bleak.

However, I did have a good stack of Catapults, Archers, and Hoplites. I also had Furs, Wines, and Ivory and a good chunk of change. These were all brought to bear on the unsuspecting Ghandi, much to his chagrin.

Thats right, the barbs make big problems, but also the free lands S of my territory want to be settled by several AI's. After a war against India ( I won this) starts China a war against me. This GOTM seems to be a endless war game.

Predator PTW

First time taking notes - and I'm no good at it. No screenshots sorry (forgot). I moved N with the settler & NE with the worker, continuing N again with the settler and finally stopping when I sight the deer. Almost, but not quite - I only end up with one of the deer for growth (which bites me big time down the track).
I went straight out for pottery, figuring a granary was needed - another blunder. First build was a warrior, which I sent N, straight into China (3400)but so are they. Moved up the coast - but too slowly. (Should have sent W or NW sigh - see why later)
I was constantly one jump behind the AI for the entirre MA (and sometimes more). China refused to trade, so I left them alone only to find that they traded everything with India a turn before I contact India (2950)
Barbarians are snotting my warriors (horsemen turning up quickly) - lost every one, bar one, which was finally killed just about the time I scored writing. I never explored much to the south for a long time as a result.
Made contacts thick and fast - someone gets writing by 2430, and they are contacting me. When I finally research it, turns later, I'm out of luck, most of the others have already left me in the dust. I'm carefully trying to check happiness etc, adjust sliders and diplomacy as often as poss - . . . . . meaning I miss the forest for the trees
2310: "You cannot support your granary . . ." (Yes - the only one I have). add "Check GP total" to end of turn actions, and choke back the tears. Fortunately my children were already asleep - the language!
2070 Have trade for evrything (using writing/maps etc) and achieved tech parity - but can't hold it, and try for GL, probably too late. This proves to be the case.
1600 Sparta founded. Second city. I'm in big trouble.
1325 barbarians have been picking at me for ages and they finally grab a worker (sigh)
1050 Huge barbarian uprisings in the south. Someone has entered middle ages already. No-one wants anything from me and I can't earn enough to buy any tech. These uprisings cripple me even more for a long time. No interference from the AI's for me - and I am unable to protect my capital effectively. (the first barbarian horseman bashes my Hoplite defender without loss). Continual attacks stopped only when the AI settles the south, which finally allows me to continue building. Did I really post I liked the challenge of Predator? - I am out of my depth here. Barbarian attacks continue eventually ceasing @ 400 BC, by which time I have only 7 cities. In answer to Moose - yes, I too had barbarians set to "Mayhem"
1000 5 cities
350 Researched Republic, which I can trade (finally) for what I need to enter MA

I am last on any measure you can think of. Tech pace was lethal. The AI has grabbed most of the luxuries, and I've already lost a city to China from culture flip I was trying to grab the spices from him. GL built on the other continent. I have been at war since God knows when (didn't note) as I refused a demand trying to build a gold stash to buy tech. No actual battles - but I can't buy them off without losing too much and no real effect so far, due to them being unable to get to me. I identify India as my target (gotta admire my optimism, eh!), my cultural boundary is about to expand and grab their iron, if I take that city, it has Great Wall, which will let me withstand any counter instantly. I decide to roll the dice again, and stay in despotism just a little longer to build a few more units and attack . . .

Lessons - look at the minimap carefully to decide where to send my starting warriors, going for pottery was a waste & let the others get away on me, should've built more Hoplites initially.
My new target - survive as long as possible, and use China as my shield. It's already too big for me to defend against, so maybe I can play it off against Rome, which is growing rapidly too. Maybe I can use pointy stick research to keep up, if I whack India well enough (although given that everything except my research of Republic has been an utter failure to date, I wouldn't bet on it). This game is a tiger and I'm just hanging in for the ride lol (actually that's more of a death rattle than anything . . .).

Just a quick post about the initial moves. I may post a decent write-up later.
After three GOTMs where I was burned by not moving enough. I was determined to find the very best place. So I started with settler N. That made clear that I would settle somewhere N so the worker NW.
Then I moved the settler another tile N. I was already determined for three moves to get closer to the forest and away from the mountains. Worker on BG.
Then I contemplated for several minutes, couldn't see anything in the fog. W or NW was the question.
My decision to move NW was then based only on the thought that if Ainwood has put some goodies somewhere, I'm more likely to catch them (W looked better for initial worker moves).
And sure that's the way to go, got two wines and two games. Settler factory material.
I still don't like these walking games BTW.

PTW 1.21f Open

I'm glad I'm not the only to find this GOTM brutal at best. This was a tough map.

I started by moving N over the mountains, settling 2 spaces N of the starting position. Began Pottey at max. Made 3 warriors, and then a granary (temple pre-build). Mysticism at min. I attempted RCP at 3 and 6.

The barbarians were troublesome at best. I lost 1 settler, 1 worker and many warriors to them. The settler was lost because of the early advent of horsemen. The massive uprising did not cause me many problems. I simply drained my treasury and let them pillage at will.

I had contact with all civs by 2050BC, and world maps all around followed shortly. The tech pace was blistering! I was able to keep tech parity up to the third tier ancient techs, then I started to lag. Badly.

At 1000BC I had 7 cities, and did not have horses OR iron. Nor were any supplies nearby attainable because they were claimed by China and India.

I did not start out making any Hopelites, but that changed around 500BC when China declared war! Luckily the did not sneak attack, and they did not attack for about 5 turns after they decalred. This gave me time to get a couple of Hopelites online. Needless to say, I entered my GA shortly thereafter (around 410BC I think). Of course, I was in depsotism. I could only make warriors, Hopelites and archers. China attacked with swordsmen and archers. I don't recall them having any horsemen, although they did have horses. I used the GA to build military. Lots and lots of archers, and a few hopelites. With this, I was able to actually take about 4 Chinese towns. At this point, I started to see some MA units from China, and I knew I would be quickly slaughtered, so I signed for peace. Luckily, I was able to snag the horses from China, but not iron.

At this point I had two options available for iron: Chinese iron to the NE on the coast, or Indian iron to the SW. I place a culture-squeeze city by each source (neither of which worked, by the way!). I entered the MA in 70BC, gaining Engineering as my free tech. I was able to trade for Monotheism, but all of the 2nd tier techs were already researched! I had a feeling I was in trouble!

My situation at 70BC:

I am in depotism. My GA has already been activated. I have no other options at government yet. I am severely behind in tech. I have a decent amount of workers, and a barracks in almost every town, but no other buildings. The land is decently improved. I have a pretty large army, but it is all archers and hopelites. I have horses, but no iron. I have 2 luxeries. I have not started a forbidden palace. Everyone else has MA units.

In my game, China is huge (imagine that!)
I had no Iron or Horse and yet he had both, so I lived in constant fear of him all through the Ancient Age.

On the topic of Techs, I was very intimidated by the blistering pace. After being the first to discover Literature and doing a massive trade, I knew all civs and had a World Map. After viewing the map, the Tech pace was no longer quite a shock.

All in all, a very challenging (and rewarding) map, especially since it is Emporer level - way to go ainwood!

Barb uprisings are caused by civs entering the MA? I had no idea...

[Open]
I settled two tiles directly north of the start location, on the river, near the wines. Built two warriors first, sent north and west to explore. I found the dyes to the north pretty quickly, but China claimed them long before I had a chance to. This would be the story for the rest of the game.

Having found China nearly right on top of me, I made the rash decision to build a barracks after my first two warriors. After the barracks, I built my first Hoplite, then a granary.

Okay, hmmm, that's two warriors, barracks, a hoplite, granary, then my first settler. Not sure exactly what I was thinking...first settler in 1950BC. NOT. GOOD.

1870BC - The turn my second city, Sparta is founded (3 tiles NORTH of Athens, the lands to the south are still a complete black). This is also the turn I establish contact with everyone and tech parity through trades (my 40-turn min writing research was successful, but that would be the only time).

A RANDOM QUOTE FROM MY QSC TIMELINE: "1600BC - China's cruising for a bruising by founding cities next to every luxory near me." Of course, by the time I got my act together, China was untouchable...

ANOTHER RANDOM QUOTE: "1350BC - I Hate Barbarians. In the last few turns, they've ransacked one of my towns for 143g, disconnected my wines, and defeated my Hoplite. Next turn two of them are poised to ransack Athens." Yeah, loved those barbarians. I can't even begin to estimate how many roads they pillaged. My favorite was when they took out my road over the mountain (once I finally did start heading south), or the roads through the jungle.

QSC Stats:
4 towns
11 pop
283 gold
Army: 2 workers, 1 Warrior, 5 Hoplites
16/21 AA Techs.
Score: Last with 172, Egpyt is 2nd to last with 217, and India is first at 331.
Improvements: 3 barracks, 2 granaries.

I traded my way into the MA in 850BC. I still only have four cities, and no strategic resources. I have wines and ... that's it. Every turn is a nail-biting experience as the barbs keep running all over my lands. China and India are both right on top of me, and I can't research anything by myself.

So, no surprise (I don't think I'm spoiling anything by adding this), I surrendered by about 300AD (mostly thanks to Rome coming all the way over and making my life even more miserable then it was). I might have had 8 cities by this time, but no hope. Since this was a GOTM, I "surrendered" by using all my defending units to attack anything nearby, then watched the mad rush to claim my cities...ah well.

I did learn a few things...

My great empire at the end of the AA:

Qpdaj:
Wow. You let the Chinese beat you to those furs? Yikes!
That early Barracks build was probably not the wisest choice, although it was not far from my initial thoughts of trying to take on the Chinese early. I had a Barracks in Sparta and was pumping out Archers/Hoplites with the thought of blitzing China. Thank heavens that I came to my senses and decided to concentrate totally on Hoplite/Settler factories instead.
You definitely have an uphill climb ahead of you - oh well, what fun would it be if there was no challenge?

Things I learned:

* First, building both a granary and barracks before my first settler was BAD. Duh. Don't know what I was thinking.

* Definitely needed to do a lot more scouting. I wasn't aware there was a whole open area to the south until it was far too late.

* Built too many Hoplites too soon. Warriors would have been much more useful, especially once the barbs started pillaging. Even though Hoplites and Warriors have the same attack rating, it seemed like my Hoplites lost every time I tried any sort of offensive action (and since there was generally only one Hoplite per city, this was BAD).

* With this many other civs so close together, other than that first min research for Writing, any money spent on science was wasted.

* Defend key improvements, such as luxuries and connecting roads, either by fortifying a unit on them or attacking any barb that looks in a pillaging mood. (Again, a task made easier by having lots of Warriors rather than a few Hoplites.)

* Wines give an extra food bonus, so they're worth irrigating under Despotism (didn't know that).

* Worry less about placing cities close to my capital, and more about claiming luxuries and strategic resources.

I started this game over again, determined I could do better (for my own edification). I still settled in about the same place (actually, one tile to the SW), and I put myself on a sort of honor code: I wouldn't send a settler any place I hadn't explored first, and I wouldn't explore an area just because I remembered there was something there. So I sent my first two warriors north and west just like before, but also built two more to send East and South (in that order). I'm definitely doing better this time (though I didn't enter the MA until about 400BC), but it's still a tough tough tough map.

Definitely looking forward to see how everyone else does!!!

al_thor said:

In my game, China is huge (imagine that!) I had no Iron or Horse and yet he had both, so I lived in constant fear of him all through the Ancient Age.

Click to expand...

China is the leader in my game also. However, I sent a Warrior exploring to the south and saw Horses and Iron. I was able to capture the Horses before India, but have been unable to secure the Iron because of the many barbs in the area caused by the uprisings at the Middle Ages. Having those 2 important resources so far away caused me to go after them and not worry about ring city placement of my cities.

al_thor said:

On the topic of Techs, I was very intimidated by the blistering pace. After being the first to discover Literature and doing a massive trade, I knew all civs and had a World Map. After viewing the map, the Tech pace was no longer quite a shock.

Click to expand...

I liked that the tech pace was fast. It gave some great trading opportunities. Unfortunately, since I had little infrastructure and ended up trading mostly gold, I am now pretty poor. Now all I have to do is solve the barbarian problem in the S and SE and expand into those areas before China and India.

I ended up trading for Horses once with China, as part of a GPT/Lux/M.A. vs India deal. Needless to say, after that I no longer needed Iron or Horse as what was once India's is now mine.

Probably my biggest mistake of the AA:
I was poised to attack India for some turns. I had totally spaced-out the fact that India had built the Great Library in Delhi. I could have turned my Science off for probably 10 or 12 turns (or more) and earned some huge cash if I had been on my toes.
As it was, capturing the GL (at the time a VERY pleasant surprise) was probably the biggest boon to my game.

Second slip-up:
I did not realize that Wines could be irrigated in Despotism for a bonus food. However, my capitol had Granary and the Warrior/Settler cycle was running perfect - growth to size 3 on same turn as Settler, so maybe this was okay. If irrigated, (instead if mined like it was), maybe this would not have been so?

Predator PTW 1.27

Yet another fabulous game setup from Mr. Ainwood. This game has been a blast thus far—and a tough challenge.

Initial Decisions
I had a long debate with myself on whether to first move the worker (NE) or the settler (N). I decided on the Settler, because I felt that was the strongest vantage point and the most likely direction for my first city. Also, moving the settler first could potentially save my worker one turn. I was rewarded, of course, by spotting the river and wines. My worker saved one turn by moving directly north with the settler. I knew at this point that my settler would move twice more, NW, NW. The one extra settler move would save my worker an additional four turns (without the move my worker would have had to needlessly irrigate a grassland to enable irrigation of wine). The worker began mining the nearest BG. On my final settler move, he spotted game. This led me to believe that I had made my first successful attempt at following an Ainwood breadcrumb trail.

Athens, founded in 3850 BC, would one day become a lovely 6-turn 5/7 warrior/settler factory. The nicest thing about this location was that it required very few worker turns to set up: two irrigated tiles and two mines. Very nice, and I would not have settled anywhere else in hindsight.

I began research on pottery at max because there were no expansionist opponents, and my initial build sequence was warrior x 3, granary (built in 2630 BC), warrior x 3 (to replace the first 3 that all died to barbs), and then a settler (built 2230 BC).

Expansion
In 3350 BC, my northern warrior spotted a Chinese border, and my western warrior spotted an Indian border: both were far, far too close to home. This made me contemplate building a settler before my granary. In addition, my western warrior had located a city location, next to grassland wheat, that could generate 10 shields per turn. I certainly wanted that spot ASAP, but in the end I stuck with the granary. There were simply too many prime locations I needed to claim, and building the initial settler would have hurt me badly in the long run. This was primarily due to the fact that Athens needed so few worker turns to be developed. Dropping its population below four (working 2 irr. wine, 1 mined BG and 1 forest game) would have been VERY counterproductive. The enemy was far too close for comfort, but I believe the granary was the right choice.

A few Ancient Age turns from my QSC timeline, most pertaining to contact and trading:

3100 BC, turn 19 Get Pottery, start Writing at 10%. Ghandi must be researching Pottery, because Mao offers me a much better trade: I trade him Pottery, 1gpt and 8g for Warrior Code and CB. I am still down Masonry on the AIs. All I could get for Pottery from Ghandi was 18g. I decide to bring warrior 3 back home.

2710 BC, turn 27 My last warrior is slaughtered. (when my granary finished I built three replacements).

2390 BC, turn 35 Warrior > settler. Athens is now a 6-turn warrior/settler factory. Regular warriors unfortunately. A barb appears on my mountain range. Somebody knows writing, because I now know Rome, Spain and Korea. Rome, Spain and India are up 5 techs on me, but Korea and China still lack Mysticism. Trade Ghandi 2gpt and 35g for Mysticism. Trade China Mysticism and 1gpt for TW. Trade Korea TW and Myst and 2gpt for IW and 4g. I do not switch research from Writing, because I am pretty sure the AIs have everything covered that I could switch to. I am still down Masonry and writing on most of the AIs, and I am utterly broke.

2190 BC, turn 40 Found Sparta at RCP4 and start a barracks. This will be a powerful 10+ shield city one day.

2030 BC, turn 44 Someone gives me contact with the Egyptians, but it does me no good at present. I can’t afford anything.

1910 BC, turn 47 I trade Ghandi 1gpt and 11g for contact with the French. I trade Abu contact with the French and 2g for contact with the Ottomans. There I reach a dead end. I can’t quite afford HR, which a few of the civs lack.

1575 BC, turn 58 I get writing. IBT I trade Ghandi 9gpt, 19g and my WM for MM and his territory map. I trade Osman 22g for contact with the French. I then trade him MM and Territory Map for Philosophy, Ter. Map and 21g. I trade Joan WM, MM and Phil for Masonry World Map and 4g. I trade Korea WM and French contact for HR, WM and 9g. Trade maps with Osman for 7g. Trade WM to China for WM, TM and 3g. Trade Spain WM for WM and 3g. Trade Arabs my WM and 6g for their Map and COL. Trade China my WM for theirs and 35g. Trade WM to Ghandi for WM and 74g. Trade WM to Egypt for WM and 52g. Trade WM to Spain for WM and 29g. Trade WM to Caesar for WM and 40g.

So, I essentially netted 50g, 4 techs and everyone’s map. Everyone is broke except me and the Indians. Set research to Republic at Minimum.

1550 BC, turn 59 I declare war on the Arabs to hopefully slow down the tech pace. I establish several embassies and get the Ottomans, French and Koreans to declare war on them.

1450 BC, turn 63 The Indians get Literature. I trade them 84g and 3gpt for Math. Trade China Math for ROP, 38g and Maps. Trade Cleo Math for ROP, maps and 41g. Trade Caesar Math for ROP, WM and 35g. Trade maps to everyone for a few gold.

1300 BC, turn 69 Lose two more warriors trying to kill a barb horse. That one horse has now killed five warriors. {Sorry, my equivalent of a Rant. I was so cheesed off on that turn…}

1050 BC, turn 79 Trade Korea WM, 7gpt and 134g for currency. Trade Osman currency for Poly. Trade India currency for 117g and ROP. Cancel war alliance with Korea, France and Osman. Trade Egypt Poly for Lit. Trade Abu peace and poly for 65g and maps.

Sparta reaches size 6, and can now generate 10 shields per turn (2 turn hoplites or archers).

1025 BC, turn 80 Rome completes the Pyramids in Rome.

1000 BC, turn 81 India completes the Great Library in Delhi. They also get Construction, so the MA will begin very soon. And so will the barb explosion.



End of QSC:

All techs except Monarchy, Republic and Construction.
Republic is due in 18.
270g, making +5 gpt.
8 cities
Pop 19
1 granary
2 barracks
1 settler
6 workers
2 slaves
13 warriors
3 archers
5 hoplites (for the coming barb explosion)
I have embassies with all except Spain and Arabia.
Score 233 (last place)

Analysis:
My attempts to slow the predator-level tech pace were not remarkably successful, but I think it may have been enough. Map trading has been remarkably profitable thus far. I have done ok on luxuries: wine is connected, fur is secured, and I will probably get spices. Ivory may be a long shot. Resources are not so good: I can get horses, but I must go through China to get Iron (the one to the south would take far too long to hook up, even via harbor).

Plans:
18 turns to Republic. Can’t get it any faster. China will have Pikemen then, making it near impossible for me to take them with Archers. They are undoubtedly my next target due to the resources they have and the great terrain. Therefore, I have to hurt them before Republic and try not to trip my GA. I will found my next city next to Beijing’s horses, “pilfering” them, and I will hit Shanghai (dyes) with eight archers and four warriors in 10 turns. One hoplite will try to sneak in their back door and pillage Tsingtao’s iron (without triggering my GA, I hope). Then I will try to take Beijing.


975 BC, turn 82 I get the barb uprising: four camps that I can see, maybe more. Four civs (China, India, Korea and Arabia) are in the Middle Ages.

925 BC, turn 84 I build an embassy with Spain and Arabia. I trade India 218g and 6gpt for construction and enter the Middle Ages. I basically spend all my cash, because the barbs are indeed raging. I empty out a city near them so that they can “poof” themselves destroying my hoplite build over and over and over…

Open PTW 1.27

Sabre's 5CC Conquest - Take 3

Well, so far 2 attempts at a 5CC Conquest win have gone down in flames (beaten by Greeks and Aztecs in gotm31, got down to just Spain in gotm32 - both late modern age) and stubborn old me is back to try again. An Emporer game will be a tough go, but I've read Charis' deity 5CC win and it's given me the willpower to stick it out. The pangaea planet will add another challenge in that I will not be protected from other civ's attacks. Let's also not forget the lovely starting spot. No way to get a nice tight 5 cities here!

Athens

I need each of my cities to be extremely productive, so it was obvious I was going to have to move my settler. As I'm sure so many others have done, my worker climbed the mountains to the north to see what was on the other side. Mmmmmm - grapes! Good enough for me. The site 2 tiles north of start was decent, but most of the shields were tied up in mountains. I decided 1 more move to get some of the forest and plains was worth it and ended up on the tile SE of the game. This would have me on the river, the wines available on 1st border expansion and plenty of shields available. Even better, a 2nd game was revealed on founding the city. Athens set out building 3 warriors for exploration, a hoplite for barb defense (they appeared pretty early) and then a settler.

Meeting the Neighbors
Warrior1 headed due west, Warrior2 headed north and Warrior3 headed east and then south. The Chinese and Indians were contacted almost immediately making the area around Athens a bit crowded. It's obvious that my 5 cities will be spread out a bit in this game, though further scouting will reveal that there are benefits to spreading out as there are multiple sites that make for great cities. Three available luxuries and a nice little cattle ranch past the jungle. Courthouses will be high on the todo list. Warrior1 finished off meeting the neighbors around 2350bc as they met Rome and Korea near to each other. The rest of the world was on the other side of Rome (nice chokepoint Ainwood!), but Writing was on the horizon.

Sparta
Sparta was founded in 2630bc south of the western wheat. With India close by I wanted to reach this site first. No fresh water, but there is good food and a ton of BGs. Sparta's build order was Hoplite, Worker, Hoplite, Archer, Temple.

Writing
In 2030bc I was the first to research Writing - 40t from the start. At that time I was way behind in tech as the other civs excluded me in their little trading games. But with Writing in my possession, suddenly they all wanted to be my buddy. I built embassies with all 4 civs to make them polite and then began to wheel and deal:

Trade Writing to Korea for Iron Working, the Wheel, Warrior Code
Trade Iron Working to China for Pottery, the Wheel, 12g
Trade Iron Working to India for Mysticism, 14g
Trade Writing, contact China to Rome for contact Egypt, 71g
Trade Writing, Iron Working, contact Korea to Egypt for Masonry, contact Ottoman, 58g
Trade contact Korea, Rome, 10g to Ottomans for contact France, Spain
Trade contact Korea to France for 26g
Trade contact Egypt, Korea to Spain for contact Arabia
Trade contact Egypt to Arabia for 32g

I was now tied with India as tech leader and had most of the world's gold. What gold was left I eventually collected by slowly trading contacts to any civ that gathered 25+ gold. I knew my tech lead would be temporary but it sure felt nice at the time.

Thermopylae
Founded in 1625bc on the river NW of the furs. China had plopped down a town just north of this, but since China would probably be my first target I wasn't too concerned. Thermopylae needed a Temple to reach the furs and this build was interrupted twice by barb attacks. I went with the more expensive Temples over Libraries. I'm going gold over research this game and I'd need all these happiness buildings once my conquest attempt began. The Libraries would provide little benefit besides culture until maybe much later in the game.

Corinth
Corinth's settler crossed the jungle and settled the cattle country in 1200bc. Half my worker force is hacking a road through the jungle escorted by a Hoplite. These will be nice city sites, but between the terrain, the distance from Athens and the barb problem I'm afraid getting these cities up to speed will take some time.

Trading my way to the Middle Ages
In 1175bc Egypt beat me to Philosophy and India reached Polytheism. With Greece being a scientific civ I wanted to be one of the first to the Middle Ages and hopefully use my free tech as further trade bait. My first move was to buy Mathematics from the Koreans for 82g. Math had been out for awhile and I wanted to see who had Construction for trade. Sure enough the Ottomans had a monopoly on it but had an unrealistic idea of it's value.

1125bc - Trade 86g to Egypt for Philosophy
Trade Philosophy, 98g to India for Polytheism
Trade Phiosophy, Polytheism to France for Literature, Code of Laws, Horseback Riding, 19g
Trade Polytheism, Philosophy to Ottos for Map Making, 37g
Trade Polytheism, Philosophy to Spain for world map, 22g
Science - the Republic 10% (40t)
1050bc - Trade 318g to Spain for Currency
Trade Currency to India for 112g
Trade Currency, 131g to Ottos for Construction
Enter Middle Ages
Monotheism researched
Trade Construction to Egypt for 109g

This round of trading wasn't quite as nice as the last one, but I did end up being one of the first to the Middle Ages. It ended up costing me 334g to make this jump, but I'm not sure I could have done this better. It wouldn't have been long before a few civs researched Currency and Construction and traded them to everyone but me. Waiting for Republic was an option, but no lock on reaching it first and by then my Monotheism would have been worth less.

Outlook
This is going to be a tough game and I have little doubt I'm going to be the underdog for much of it. My goals for the Middle Age are to settle my 5th city (settler delayed on it's journey due to the barbarian hordes), connecting the iron far to the south and building up an army of med infantry or possibly knights to kill off China and possibly India. If I can make friends with Rome and kill off Korea I can use Rome as a barrier and ally in eliminating much of the rest of the world, leaving a mid-level civ to help me when I turn on my Roman friends. That's the loose plan anyway - we'll have to see how it plays out.

Greece at Middle Age:

Open PTW

As I already mentioned in my quick note above, I found the best capital position after three moves.

I immediately built 2 warriors and a granary, before growth to size 3 (game chopped just in time). Then settler and (not so smart) barracks while building up population for the 5-7 settler factory.
My northern scout found the Chinese in 3200 BC. This was the beginning of a long peaceful trade relationship. I had just finished research of pottery and could trade masonry for pot+alpha+1gpt. By that I could start min on math.
The only other civ, I found by scouting was india soon after.
Tech pace was quite high so that by the time I had math to trade I knew already most of the civs due to communication trading around them.
From my first big deal with math I was at tech parity and never fell back again.
I applied moonsinger's banker strategy to always have enough money for research and ran high science slider on techs the AI's don't like to research. Still I was beaten to several techs, but could still gain by brokering them around.
In 1000BC I had:

8 cities
21 pop
1 granary
3 barracks
3 libraries
5 warriors
4 hoplites
4 workers + 4 slaves (I know, too few)

I had all required techs except polytheismus and was researching republic @ 90%.
I also had aquired all maps available.
I could have had more cities if I wouldn't have messed up the micromanagement of the capital several times



In 1000 BC I also started the first (phony) war. Arabia was getting quite big at that time, so I DoWed them and allied Spain and Rome. This was a very long war w/o any hostilities ever. Only much later in MA I made peace with them, because of some trading opportunities.
In the same year I also established my first trade route with china. I gave furs+wines for dyes and some gold. I always had some trades going on with china, until shortly before I exterminated them, but that comes only in the next spoiler.
No real war in AA. I traded for poly in 750BC to enter the middle ages. The same round I could also trade for republic and revolted for a 5 turn anarchy. I had no ressources hooked up by that time and the way I got them finally also belongs in the next spoiler. In the whole game I never built or upgraded a sword. The trading on every turn kept everybody friendly, though we were military by far the weakest civ.

Barbs were a real nuissance. I had to steer them several times to small undefended cities, so they didn't get any important cities, even before the massive uprise.

That's also a tip for all the people reporting problems with barbs pillaging. If you cannot kill them before they come to you, rather move all defenders out of a city. The gold they steal is much less of a problem than pillaging. Also if they move towards your capital where they could do real damage, try to lure them to other cities by getting workers into their sight.
And don't expect to kill them with attack 1 units. This will work frequently, but by far not always.

klarius said:

...That's also a tip for all the people reporting problems with barbs pillaging. If you cannot kill them before they come to you, rather move all defenders out of a city. The gold they steal is much less of a problem than pillaging. Also if they move towards your capital where they could do real damage, try to lure them to other cities by getting workers into their sight.
And don't expect to kill them with attack 1 units. This will work frequently, but by far not always.

Click to expand...

Remember too that the higher the level, the tougher the odds against them get.