Classic 33: First Spoiler (end of ancient age)

[ainwood]

Actually, it doesn't really matter, since I doubt I'll be finishing this GOTM anyway. I'd have to finish it in the next two days since I'm going away.

I don't understand RCP and nothing anyone writes will ever fix that.

In a nutshell, if you put your cities all at the same distance from the capital (in a ring), then corruption is lower.

Look in dianthus' sig for a link to his CRP_Rings program. That basically draws a picture on the screen for you showing you where you should settle to minimise corruption. Simple as that.

 

[klarius]

@Rassnie
Shooting your reputation early, sure isn't good for your tech development. You will not be able to trade with ressources or gpt versus techs unless...

You DoW China and ally another civ. Your bad deeds will be temporarily forgotten. Don't ever destroy china or this path will be closed.

 

[Rassnie]

What does DoW mean? I've heard people use it but I've never seen it in its full form. All I can figure out is declaration of war.

 

[rrau]

What does DoW mean? I've heard people use it but I've never seen it in its full form. All I can figure out is declaration of war.

you figured it out!

 

[.Praetor]

Rassnie-

I don't claim to be THE Civ3 expert, but Herakleia would be a bad place to put your forbidden palace. Just like you don't want your palace to be off in a corner, the FP should be surrounded by cities as well.

Looking at your map, I'd suggest Beijing if you were going to start it before the war with India. The city southwest of Lahore (or a bit farther in that direction) if you're going to hope for a leader from the Indian war.

P.S. nice write up.

 

[Sandman2003]

Just for the record, I have gone back to my 925BC save - when I entered the MA - to try and see if there uis any deal possible re engineering and monotheism. I had 200gp and 15gpt at 10% on my sliders. AT 0% the gpt was 17. The Koreans would probably be unsulted in the straight up deal. If sweetened by my 200gp and 15gpt it is doubtful, as it is with sliders zeroed and 17gpt in the pot. So there was no trade available to me. A stronger gov, and stronger civ development at that time may have made a difference.

A slightly different sequence of events from 1000BC results in a deal (just), however. I will just have to be a lot more thoughtful around the turn of the ages I think!

 

[samildanach]

Open 1.27f
Founded Athens by the two wines which I irrigated and the game which I left alone. Built three warriors and then started on the granary with a pre-build. I managed to completely miss the chinese and didn't make contact with them until someone traded my contact to them. Met the indians, the Romans and Koreans. Got contact with the rest when writing came in and contact got traded around. Declared war on the Koreans as soon as met them as I bushwacked a Korean warrior and settler.
I researched pottery first at max. Then writing at min. And then lit. at max. I was very backward until all the other civs had Map making as I had been unable to make any tech trades. No one wanted pottery and I got well beaten to writing. I was able to use my World Map and a peace treaty with Korea to take me almost to parity, excepting MM and HBR.
When lit. came in I traded it for poly. CoL, philosophy, HBR, and MM and it also made me rich.
Shortly after this point I started a few wars - I traded lit and some cash to the Spanish to declare war on the Arabs. I traded for currency from the ottomans for poly, philosphy, CoL, WM and 302g. I traded currency aand some gold to the spanish for construction. I traded around the techs to form a grand alliance against the Romans and entered the M.A. in 975 BC.
At 1000 BC I have 7 cities founded at RCP4/4.5, 13 workers, 15 warriors.
Two granaries,3 rax, and 1 temple. I got engineering as my free tech and I am currently researching republic at min. I hope to acquire the indian iron supply near me by cultural push have a settler in position to found city at their border.

 

[Singularity]

[pred] 1.27

I decided to move my worker last for once. Settler N, spot the boring grass in the NE and the lone BG with two wines nestled next to it directly west of the river. I've seen various reasons for settling NW of the BG, but my main concern would be the possibility of having to fight barbs or enemies on the mountain if I settled my capitol next to them.

This would be my first predator game. First of all I wanted to get that claustrophobic feel I had in my early games a few years back, second of all I wanted to see if predator gives you certain advantages over open games... Of course Ainwood had to make it an emperor game, so I was concerned for a while if I could make the cut, I've never completed a deity game yet. And this is probably the closest thing to it that I will come besides playing it.

Back to my game. I started to make a road on the BG. I would micro to the river on the last shield of my first warrior to get the benefits on my beaker production. I decided to go all out on pottery, but I also contemplated Wheels for a while - but the chances of being intercepted by hut popping AI's scared me away from that option. By 3650 I had my first warrior starting his voyage in a direct line west of Athens. A few round later I found out where Ainwood had left his BG, and a stack of wheat as well. Nice territory for first expansion. My second warrior is finished on the round my worker finish the mine on the BG. I decide to send the worker to the westerly wine to build a road there. My warrior go north to see where the river goes and if there is even better land there than to my west. I could've scouted south with him, but my knowledge of the land there left small chances of finding anything there but jungle for a few round. In 3350BC I spotted two different borders at once, a turquoise in the north, and a purple a bit to the south in the west. One of Gandhi's warriors come through the fog directly north of Athens in 3300bc. He has masonry, code, burial and 20 gold. He shaved of some gold from a trade with the northern civ most likely - leaving me even more in the dark with a sole hope of squeesing a trade out of researching pottery first. No golden early trade with alphabet... I decide to stay on my tunneling due west with my first warrior as I've allready been hailed by India.My third warrior is finished this round and is immediatly sent S by the road on the BG to tunnel in that direction. I order Hoplite at Athens.

Next round I get a new face on my foreign advicor screen as my warrior brushes against the chineese border. He has the same techs as Gandhi, but zero gold. 3200BC sees me finishing my pottery research. I give pottery plus seven gold for Mao's masonry. And I have to give 2 GPT + pottery to get code from Gandhi. My next research is maths at minimum science. I switch my build in Athens from Hoplite to Archer. 3200BC I also spot the ocean in the N. 3100bc my west trekking warrior is stopped by the sea, my archer is finished at Athens, and I order a settler. In 3000BC my military advicor notify that there are Patzinal tribes near Athens. A bit early I think, and I pull back my archer from his eastern scout trip. In 2850BC the first Patsinal warrior approach Athens from the original start area. This is also the round that I'm stopped in the south by saltwater. in 2800BC my first warrior pops a hut in the WSW, we get maps of the region. What I know by now is that I'm most likely alone in the SE part of the pangea map. 'Alone' that is, the barbarians make it feel quite crowded. I'll speed things a bit up by listing dates and events only.

2750BC: settle Sparta E SE SE of sparta. the wheat was interesting, but I'll manage on the BG in the start. It'll impair my growth some, but it's part of my plan to make Sparta either my new capitol or to do an early FP build there. I'm now building granary in both Athens and Sparta.

2590BC: Meet Korea. He has iron, I have masonry, pottery and much gold. But it's not enough to make him dance to my tune.

2430BC: Meet Julius. He's making my warrior go the wrong way with his awkward location dead smack in the middle of the map and on what seem to be a choke from my norheastern perspective. Nice Ainwood. Julis is either going to be the top AI dog in this game, or the first road kill.

2310BC: Trade pottery, masonry and 15 G for the koreans works on Iron. He coulda gotten much more 280 years earlier. Subsequently I get the wheel from China for Iron and 30 G. And Julius throws in burial and 37G for Iron. I then proceed to get writing from Gandhi for setting him up with Korea and Iron plus 69 G. This is the final tap on the domino pieces of global diplomacy, and I get to tip it over. When the round is over I've added Mysticism to my known advances, know all the civ's and have 415 G in my treasury. I don't want to envision loosing out on this crusial round in the game.

1750BC: Sparta produce my second settler in the game. I send him and an archer escort south towards the annoyingly distant horses south of my two towns. Still no iron, though I have a large area unscouted in the SE due to hard pressure from barbs there. My second warrior fortify next to the horses just as a disturbance should anyone try to settle around him.

1675BC: I enter the round finding out that half the world knows how to make maps. Luckily they don't have the sence to trade them. I end the round with most of the continent uncovered and a total of 865 G in my treasury. I spot three luxuries WNW, WSW and S of Athens. The closest is the furs in the WNW, and the elephants plus the spices is far away for now in the barbridden junglelands. Still no Iron...

1625B: Settle Thermopylae S S SW of Athens, or one tile SE of start position.

1600BC: Finish researching maths. I get poly, horse. Start researching Construction at lowest tech.

1575BC: Settle Corinth NW of the horses in the south. Order worker. He's summarily slaughtered by a barb HM however ten turns later when he moves out.

1375BC: Settle Delphi three tiles NE of Athens. Settle Pharsalos W of the closest fur tile. I just beat the chineese to it. Instead of getting it the chineese spearman take my punches as he's promoted to elite from barbarian HM attacks.

I'm getting a feeling that I'm heading off the track again like I've done in my last games. I don't know how to overcome the damn jungle blocking me. I lost an archer from attacking a warrior in the jungle. Bound to happen I guess. Other than that and the worker killed in the south I've been spared for the barbarians playground in the SE. Mostly because I have the saem approach to barbarians as SirPleb. Attack is best defence. My archers really earned their wages in the AA.

1150BC: Settle Argos three tiles N of Athens. Settle Knossos three tiles NW of Sparta.

In 1075BC: Between 1100 and 1075 BC India and Ottomans research both Currency and Construction. I have to cough up 355 G to Gandhi for Currency. I then trade contruction for currency from Korea, and propel us both to the MA. I get monotheism and he gets Feudalism. We trade it 1 for 1. I trade monotheism to India and the scientific Ottomans who've traded their pens and papers for a shovel in this game. I feel a bit bad when I take back all the gold I gave for 8 slaves plus their life savings when I make sure that all the AI's only lack construction. Except India, Ottomans and Korea of course.

In 1075BC I have 1413 gold and am currently crawling towards Chivalry at lowest techrate. I'm leaving for a holiday as well soon. So I gotta get the pedal to the metal if I'm going to deliver this game.

Stats in 1075BC:

8 cities
14 citizens. 4 workers, 8 slaves, 3 archers, 3 hoplites, 1 settler and 2 warriors.



Starting temple in Sparta after that I make library and start on FP there. Not 100% sure though. Gotta see the demand for settlers compared to getting my culture/science into action.

 

[HighDesert]

After playing the AA in this game just about as badly as I'm able to play, my write-up has just disappeared into electronic oblivion, capping an almost thouroughly disappointing exercise. I must have hit some combination of keys which threw the write-up away; I can't find anything on the menu which could do that and it's obvious after trying a few things it ain't coming back. And I'm not enough of a masochist to recreate it.

Suffice it to say I did manage to get an equivalent 2.8-turn settler factory after perhaps settling too quickly when the first Game appeared.

At 1000BC I had 4 settlers heading south to set up a second core. They did the Barb Boogie for a while before getting to their assigned spots; I did keep them all, though. The world at 1000BC:



I traded for Polytheism, Construction and Currency in 900BC and entered the Middle Ages in Despotism marvelling at reaching MA so soon as I had botched about a dozen things along the way. And cursing the barbs who would hamper my development for another 500 years...

 

[civ_steve]

1.27f

This is definitely a challenging start! Emperor level, lots of barbarians roaming the countryside, and key strategic resources are scattered far away where you either have to challenge adjacent civs to obtain them, or cross a thick belt of Jungle and mountain to connect them! I'm not sure if I buy into the 'trail of bread crumbs' concept yet, but in this game, the grass was definitely greener on the other side of the hill, and all the nearby Jungle and Mountains served as a whack on the back of the head to go North, young man!

So my worker went NE, the Settler N, and the Wine sealed the deal. Settler moved NW twice (didn't want to settle on a BG, and wanted less mountain in my capital), and there was a Games space, too! Athens founded in 3850 BC.

F10 showed only 1 Expansionistic civ. With the bonus food from the two Wines, plus a chopped Games, I knew I wanted Pottery fast, so started research at fastest rate, since I wasn't likely to trade for it soon.

Contacted the Chinese in 3300 BC. Mao showed 10 Gold, with Masonry and Warrior Code extra, and we only had Alphabet to trade; he already had BronzeWorking from somewhere, and knew someone else with Alphabet because he would only offer 10 Gold for it (couldn't even get Warrior Code!). So no deals.

Next turn, 3250BC, contacted the Indians (there's the other Commercial civ!) Mahatma had 0 Gold, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code, while we had no Techs to trade. So he must have contact with another Scientific civ, gotten BronzeWorking, which he then traded to Mao for Warrior Code.

3200 BC, I learn Pottery, and now I CAN trade. Alphabet, Pottery and 11 Gold to China for Masonry; Masonry and Pottery to India for Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code. Tech Even, and start a minimum research on Math (there are several Commercial civs in this game, so I'm conceding to them in researching Writing!)

The fast pace regarding the Tech race has already shown itself. Commerce will be critical to try to keep up in the early part of this game! I may not be the first to reseach many of the Techs (at least initially), but any research I put into the Tech will reduce its cost to me later if I have to buy it, and I really need to look to buy Techs when I can then make a series of trades afterwards. This first trade shows how critical the timing and sequence of the trading can be; trading Pottery to India first would not have allowed a trade with China. Contacts, and understanding how much the AI will offer for what I have to trade, will be crucial.

Fortunately there are very good river sites near Athens; I can build up my Commerce input rapidly. Unfortunately I make a bad decision with my first scouting Warrior and send him North around China rather than West; I was at the corner of Shanghai (dyes city), and could go either way (should have gone West!!!!!). I ended up being blocked by the rest of China. My 2nd Scouting Warrior went East. Result, never met anybody else until they came calling. Regarding getting the dyes first, I don't think it's possible under Predator; the extra Settler had founded there before I could have built a Settler, and with the limited contacts the AI makes, I'd believe that's the case for any Predator game.

After building 3 Warriors (keeping 1 at home; Barbs were already around), Athens built a Granary, finishing in 2630BC. The Warrior that went East curled South and saw all the open terrain on the other side of the Jungle. Already I was planning to form a 2nd core in this open area. Sparta is founded due North of Athens in 2310 BC, grabbing another Games space; Thermopylae founded in 1950 BC to the NNE to grab the 3rd Games Space. I set up Sparta to build a Barracks, and Thermopylae, eventually, a Granary. Sparta would provide me my Military, and Thermopylae support my expansion.

Also in 1950 BC, I see that China has Math already (hut??) and India has the Wheel. Buy Math for 180 Gold, and 6 gpt; trade Math for Wheel and 50 Gold, and start on Writing at 80%. I'm not sure this is the best type of trade to make, but I was concerned that India and China would make a trade, locking me out of any Tech advancement so I bit the bullet and traded. I still haven't contacted anyone else, even though I know there's a Scientific civ out there, most likely beyond India.

1700 BC, I found Corinth to the East. The Barb activity is really heating up; I lose a pop point in Athens, and 1 Gold in Thermopylae to Barb Horsemen; my MP's are trying to protect the cities, the Workers, and any Settlers I have outside. Fortunately Sparta's Barracks is coming on line, and I start a couple Hoplites to provide decent protection.

1450 BC, Delphi is founded near the original start site; I'm starting to project Greek presence to the South and am maintaining a RCP4 placement for my cities to minimize Corruption. I've overcome the current set of Barbarian problems.

1425 BC, game takes a big turn as Korea, followed by several other civs, make contact. These other civs have Writing, and MapMaking!!, already, but they don't have Math. India and China must not have made them an offer; next thing I know they all want Math. I get all contacts, Mysticism, Writing, MapMaking and Philosophy, most TMs, and some Gold. Whew!! I decide I will need to put lots of units down South to try to block it off for myself; Sparta has built two Hoplites, now it starts producing 2-turn Warriors to parade off to the Southern region. I start on CodeofLaws at highest sustainable research level.

1275 BC, here's where I make my mark in the game and put myself in the lead. This also shows the power of the Tech Broker (more so than the Tech Researcher at this stage). I'm researching Codeof Laws and have 7 turns left at 16 research/turn, so about 112 'beakers' or commerce left to go. Almost everybody has CodeofLaws; I can buy it cheaply and start the next Tech, but I will have little trade power in doing this. However, India has just learned Polytheism, and almost nobody has that Tech! I set my Research and Luxury meters to 0%, maximizing my available gpt (I see this has already been discussed). I then buy Polytheism from India for my WM, 56 Gold and 9 gpt (effectively 236 Gold). I then trade it around. I don't have anybody's WM yet, so I check to see who gives the best deal. It's Spain, so for Polytheism I get WM and 13 Gold; I know now almost the entire Western chunk of land, which makes the WM's of the other Western Civs much less valuable; most of them wouldn't even trade me their WM for Polytheism straight up, but now from Arabia I get WM, HBRiding and 46 Gold, from Korea I get WM, CodeofLaws and 39 Gold, from Ottomans WM and 45 Gold; From Rome WM and 55 Gold; from China WM and 29 Gold; and I sell my WM to Egypt and Spain for a few more Gold. I end up with 3 New Techs, all WMs and 240 Gold! I'm paying a pretty penny in gpt to India, but my next Tech to research is Republic, which I plan to do at minimum anyway.

1200 BC, Pharsalos and Knossus founded to South, bracketing the Jungle.

1000 BC, at end of QSC I have 7 Towns, 15 citizens, 1 Settler, 6 Workers, 20 Warriors, 2 Hoplites, 377 Gold and am missing Only Currency and Construction for required Techs. My RCP4 placement almost assures 2 shields/turn in these cities; new ones are producing Warrior then Worker and Sparta has been building 2-turn Vet Warriors for some time, so my Army has been building up. If I can only get Iron hooked up (it's a long way away!!)

950 BC, I get the word that a massive Barbarian uprising is occuring. I check and FIVE AI civs are in the Middle Ages. However, Spain has Construction but is missing Currency. I check around for the best deal, and buy Currency from India for WM and 233 Gold; turn around and Trade Currency, WM and 90 Gold to Spain for Construction. I enter MidAges, gaining Engineering. I check and Korea got Monotheism, but wont part with it. Fine! Ottomans got ... nothing (modified, as Ainwood said). So I Trade Engineering to India for Lit, WM, 358 Gold and 4 gpt, and to China for WM and 297 Gold. I now have nearly 1000 Gold, a pretty good sized army of mostly Warriors and tons of Barb Horsemen about to attack!! What more could I ask for? Fewer Barbarians!! Here's a screen shot of my empire and my Southern advance into the open spaces:



Looking for good trades has been a key part of my game, especially with the sloppy scouting and late contacts that I had. I will mention another trade that occurs shortly into the MidAges; I saw the opportunity to buy Republic (WM and 695 Gold), trade straight up with another civ for Monarchy, then trade Korea Engineering, Republic and Monarchy for Monotheism; then I sold Mono back to the first civ to get most of my money back! I'm now up Monarchy, Republic and Monotheism to most civs; I can now play the Manipulator to start wars that are advantageous to me! (Wuh, huh, huh!!) My plan is to weaken my neighbors for future take-over ; the war drums are starting!

(And a comment on Barbs. Going into the MidAges with nearly a 1000 Gold in treasury, and really wanting to hold onto it for Warrior upgrades, made me real nervous that so many Barb Horsemen were in the Area!! A camp to the East was eventually met with a large contingent of Warriors with a couple of Hoplites; this group of Barbs tried to pillage and sack but got decimated (about 2 horsemen are left and aren't a threat anymore). A Southern group has had more staying power; I'm not established yet, and I don't have a road network so defense is touch and go. But their movements are bizarre; a big stack menaced Knossos, then decided to go West. Another stack threatened my Settler until I got a Hoplite and several Warriors stacked with it, then it moved off (West again). I retreated a Worker North into the Jungle, and those Barbs moved off. They seem to like undefended cities, out in the open Workers and Settlers, but they are pretty flighty. Anyway, I'm just a bit into the Middle Ages, and these Barbs are almost gone with no loss to my Treasury, so while it was nail-biting time for a while, the worse seems over. )

 

[TimBentley]

Civ3 1.29f Open

Since my last GOTM was a domination victory, I decided to go for a peaceful victory. I won GOTM31 (not submitted) by space, and I haven't won a cultural victory yet, so I decided to win a diplomatic victory, which I haven't won since my Chieftain days. My efforts will be to acheive a high score by getting some territory quickly and winning quickly by keeping a quick tech pace. I intended to conquer three other civilizations. I also gave in to all demands in this age.

I started by moving my worker northeast and my settler north. I saw the wines, and I decided to settle one more square to the north. I started minimum research on writing.

In 3400 BC, an Indian warrior found me. They were unwilling to give reasonable trades. In 3150 BC, one of my scouting warriors found China. I sold them alphabet for masonry, sold masonry to India for ceremonial burial, bought warrior code from China for ceremonial burial and some cash, and intended to sell warrior code to India for pottery. Unfortunately, I accidentally gave warrior code to India. Giving gifts is nice for a diplomatic goal, but I was intending for India to be one of my three victims. In 2670 BC, I met Korea, who had no techs I didn't. I founded Sparta in 2590 BC.

In 2270 BC, India beat me to writing. In 2230 BC, Korea learned writing and India learned Mysticism. In 2190 BC, I bought contact with Egypt, France, and Rome. I forgot that China didn't have writing and was intending to sell contacts to them (they probably already knew everybody). I ran out of money, and decided to finish researching writing myself.

In 2070, I learned writing. I sold it to China for contact with the Ottomans, Spain, and the Arabs, and pottery. I bought the wheel and mysticism from Rome for writing and some gold. I sold writing to Ottomans for iron working and some gold. I started minimum research on map making (to sell world maps around). In 1830, I founded Thermopylae near the furs.

In 1525, India beat me to map making. I bought it for my world map and 135 gold. I sold my world map around, getting other people's world maps, a lot of gold, horseback riding, mathematics, and code of laws. I sold code of laws to India. I started minimum research on literature. In 1500, I founded Corinth near horses, but it may be too close to Beijing. In 1450, I sold map making to Rome for philosophy. In 1425, I bought polytheism from France for several technologies. I sold it to India and Arabs (everyone else was too broke). In 1275, I founded Delphi by the coast. In 1075, I bought construction from China for several technologies. I sold construction to India for literature and some gold. I sold literature to Arabs for some gold. In 750, I bought currency from the Ottomans. Since Greece is scientific, when I entered the middle ages.... (to be continued)

To keep you in suspense, what free technology will I get? (People who know the changes in PTW will already know the answer, as did I.) As usual, I didn't expand quickly enough. I didn't start an early war with China, but I am hoping to conquer them before they get riders. Hopefully I can get knights before they get riders. (Actually, I have already completed the game when I post this, so I already know the answer.) The technology pace was pretty fast, and I entered the middle ages rather quickly. I did not have many barbarian problems, although they did kill my southern scouting warrior. I intend to buy the republic and become one, conquer China, India, and either Rome or Korea, and use a combination of self-research and trading to quickly get through the middle and industrial ages, and learn fission.

 

[DJMGator13]

Following are highlights from my QSC Timeline

Opening thoughts:
From the east to the NW is jungles & mountains. There is a river to the north and what appears to be another mountain NE NE. The Wheel is the only first tier tech not in play, can go for either of two 2nd tier techs: IW & WRIT. Since two other civs have BW, I think WRIT is in order. We are playing a Pangea map so domination & conquest victories will abound. This looks like a slugfest.

4000BC
Worker1 NE / settler N (spies 2 wines)

3950BC
Worker1 N / settler N

3900BC
settler founds ATHENS set to warrior
Worker1 mines
SCI to 20% WRIT in 40t +3gpt

3650BC
Athens warrior => warrior

3450BC
warrior1 N (spies dyes)

3400BC
Athens warrior => warrior / cultural expansion
lux to 10%

3300BC
Warrior1 W (spies border)

IBT - CHN warrior moves into view of warrior1

3250BC
Athens warrior3 => settler
Lux back to 0%
CONTACT CHINA: 1 city, 10gold, up MAS & WC, down ALPHA
TRADE: ALPHA to CHN for MAS & 10gold

3000BC
lux to 10%

IBT - CHN has grabbed the dyes

2950BC
warrior2 W (spies furs)

IBT - CHN learns POT up 2 techs

2900BC
Athens settler => warrior
lux to 0%
TRADE: buy POT from CHN for 83 gold

IBT to 2850BC- CHN learns CB

IBT to 2750BC- wines are roaded

2750BC
settler founds SPARTA set to warrior
warrior3 S (spies other side of jungle & a cow and river) / warrior1 W (meets IND)
CONTACT IND: 2 cities, 7 gold, up WC & CB, down MAS
TRADE: MAS & 21gold to IND for WC & CB

2710BC
ATHENS warrior => hoplite
warrior3 E to mt (spies another cow - need to move palace to here ASAP)

2590BC
SPARTA warrior => archer

2510BC
warrior3 S (spies Ivory)

2470BC
ATHENS hoplite => archer
warrior3 SE (spies another Ivory)

2310BC
ATHENS archer => settler
SPARTA archer => settler
warrior2 SE (spies spice)

IBT to 2230BC - CHN learns IW

IBT to 2110BC - CHN & IND each have IW & WRIT (I'm 1 turn from WRIT)

2110BC
TRADE: 116 gold & 1 gpt to IND for IW
only iron is way down south by the ivory

2070BC
learn WRIT set to COL
ATHENS settler => barracks
settler & hoplite S (towards cows)

2030BC – The Barb Assault starts and continues well into the Middles Ages
settler & hoplite S / warrior3 waits on mt (3 barb warriors near him)

1910BC
SPARTA settler => barracks
warrior3 attacks Bcamp SW (vic -1hp no promo +25gold)

IBT - CHN & IND up WHEEL (could have had for few turns I forgot to check F4)

1870BC
warrior2 SW to mt (next to Bcamp) / warrior3 heals

1830BC
archer & settlerS NE (next to Bcamp and a 2nd Bwarrior) / warrior2 attacks W to Bcamp (vic +25gold)

1790BC
settlerS founds THERMOPYLAE set to worker ( disperses Bcamp for 25 gold 2Bwarriors outside of city)
archer forts in Thermo / archer1 attacks E from Athens to Bwarrior (flawless vic no promo) / hoplite & settler SE (to new palace city site) / warrior2 attacks NE to Bwarrior (redlines but wins no promo)
TRADE: buy WHEEL from IND for 89 gold

IBT - Bwarriors NE of Thermop moves NW to same tile as other Bwarrior

1750BC
settler founds CORINTH (new Palace city) - 5 barbs are near so I set to archer for now - Corinth can be a 4 turn settler/escort factory at size 5 as Palace
Archer2 attacks from Thermo to Bwarrior (flawless vic) / warrior2 heals / warrior3 N (horses are here) to Bcamp & 2nd Bwarrior / warrior5 E towards barbs

switch Athens to archer (don’t need barraacks if I'm jumping Palace)

IBT - 6 barbs near my units and none attack

1725BC
Athens archer3 => settler
warrior2 SE to mt (only at 2hp) / warrior1 S (spies red border)

IBT - KOR warrior comes into view by warrior1 - Bwarrior attacks hoplite and dies (-1hp no promo)

1700BC
CONTACT KOR: 5 cities, 35gold, cRome, down MAS, POT, IW, cCHN & cIND
archer2 attacks NE kills Bwarrior (no promo) / warrior2 forts on mt

IBT - 2 Bwarriors attack warrior5 & warrior2 - I win both no promos

1675BC
warrior3 attacks S kills Bwarrior (-1hp no promo) / warrior5 forts to heal / warrior1 S (can contact ROM)
CONTACT ROM: 4 cities, 278 gold, up MYST, HBR, contact w/ EGY, FRA, OTTO, SPN, ARB, down cCHN & cIND
TRADE: cIND & cCHN to ROM for HBR & 62gold
TRADE: cKOR & HBR to IND for 156gold
TRADE: cKOR & HBR to CHN for 103gold
TRADE: MAS, IW & POT to KOR for cARB & 35gold
TRADE: 145gold to ROM for MYST & cEGY
CONTACT EGY: 3 cities, 10gold, cFRA, OTTO & SPN, down WRIT & HBR, cCHN, IND, KOR
TRADE: cIND, CHN, & KOR to EGY for 10 gold, cSPN, FRA & OTTO
CONTACT FRA: 4 cities, 19 gold, down HBR, cCHN, IND & KOR
CONTACT SPN: 6 cities, 16gold, down HBR, cCHN, IND & KOR
CONTACT OTTO: 5 cities, 12 gold, down WRIT, cCHN, IND & KOR

IBT - warrior5 dies when attacked by Bwarrior

1650BC
warrior3 heals
TRADE: sell MYST to IND for 67gold

IBT - Bhorse near warrior3

1625BC
TRADE: sell HBR to SPN for 41 gold
TRADE: sell MYST to CHN for 25gold (do it since CHN knows IND)
warrior3 S to mt / warrior1 W (into ROM terr)

IBT - ROM asks us to leave / Bhorse dies attacking warrior3 / 2 more Bhorses gallop up to warrior3

1600BC
warrior3 forts / warrior1 W ( ROM built on a chokepoint)

IBT - Bhorse kills warrior3

1575BC
TRADE: WRIT & 2gold to OTTO for worker
Debate: Is 7turns (18 vrs 25) off research rate worth 375gold when I have 456gold in my treasury - I go for the quicker research - set SCI to 90% 0gpt

IBT - ROM demands I leave - I agree

1550BC
Athens settler => settler (this should disband Athens)
Prior debate is moot since Athens built settler - change Sci back to 10% (was only saving 3 turns at -1gpt)

1525BC
THERMO worker3 => worker
warrior2 forts / warrior1 W (that ROM chokepoint looks to be the only way thru)

1500BC
SPARTA barrcks => worker (to lower pop for palace jump)
CORINTH worker4 => granary

IBT - Bhorse dies attacking archer & settler pair (archer is redlined)

1475BC
settler founds DELPHI set to warrior

1450BC
SPARTA worker5 => worker (to keep pop low for palace jump)
warrior2 attacks W to Bwarrior (vic -1hp no promo)

IBT - ARB offers MapM for 207gold - I wait till my turn to see if he sold to anyone else – answer is yes
EGY, ARB, CHN, & ROME have PHIL
EGY, ARB, CHN, FRA & IND have MapM

1425BC
TRADE: Wmap & 88 gold to FRA for MapM & Tmap
TRADE: Wmap & 68 gold to CHN for PHIL & Tmap
TRADE: sell PHIL to FRA for 82 gold
TRADE: sell PHIL & MapM to OTTO for Wmap & 14 gold
TRADE: sell Wmap to ARB for Tmap & 59 gold
TRADE: sell Wmap to EGY for Tmap & 49 gold
TRADE: sell PHIL & cOTTO to KOR for Wmap
TRADE: Tmap to IND for Tmap
TRADE: PHIL & 5 gold to SPN for Wmap
TRADE: Tmap to ROM for Tmap
TRADE: Wmap to CHN for 44 gold
TRADE: Wmap to FRA for Wmap & 12gold

Now have entire World Map (except for a little fog near CHN)

IBT - I now have 2 Bhorses near Delphi / OTTO & EGY learned MATH

1400BC
can buy MATH from EGY for Wmap & 143gold, since I'm not planning any wars soon I hold off to see if price comes down

IBT - 2 Bhorses attack Delphi killing my archer and pillaging my gold / 7 civs now have MATH & 3 have COL (I'm still 17 away)

1375BC
TRADE: Wmap to ROM for MATH, Wmap & 1gold
TRADE: Wmap & 139 gold to OTTO for COL & Tmap
TRADE: COL to ARB for worker & Wmap
TRADE: Tmap & 6gold to CHN for Wmap (fills in the fog around CHN)

Debate what to research. Options are CONST, CURR, REP, LIT, POLY - the way the AI has been trading around the techs I go for REP, hoping I can buy/trade for POLY, CONST & CURR later

1350BC
SPARTA worker7 => granary
DELPHI warrior6 => worker
mm Athens to slow production of settler until Corinth grows to size3 in 2 turns

IBT - KOR asks warrior1 to leave

1325BC
worker5, 6 &7 road / warrior1 N / worker1&2 NE

IBT - CHN extorts Tmap & 31gold - I agree

1300BC
lux to 20% for Corinth (now size 3)
reset Athens for settler next turn -

1275BC
THERMO worker8 => temple
Athens has enough shields for settler but it did not prompt me about disbanding city - I guess I need to wait the 4 turns until growth
switch Sparta to a worker to keep pop down for jump

1225BC
DELPHI worker9 => warrior

1200BC
SPARTA worker10 => hoplite
lux to 50% - Corinth now size 4 with only 1 mp

1175BC
ATHENS settler (Palace jumping this turn)
I abandon Athens and palace jump to Corinth
lux down to 40%

1150BC
settler founds PHARSALOS (1 W of Athens) set to temple
warrior2 attacks NE to Bhorse (vic -2hp no promo) / archer2 attacks E to Bhorse (vic -1hp no promo) / worker6 (ARB slave) forms colony on furs
lux to 70% sci to20%

IBT - 5 civs have LIT / another Bhorse near Delphi

1125BC
lux to 30% / sci to 10%
TRADE: buy LIT from FRA for 99gold
TRADE: sell LIT & Wmap to ROM for Wmap & 75gold

IBT to 1075BC - Bhorse dies attacking Delphi / FRA learn POLY

1075BC
lux to 40% - Corinth now at size5 (granry in 3 turns)
TRADE: LIT, Wmap & 30gold to SPN for worker11 & Tmap
TRADE: LIT to EGY for 13gold & Wmap
TRADE: LIT to KOR for 11gold & Wmap

IBT - Bhorse rides up to Corinth

1050BC
warrior2 attacks NW to Bhorse (flawless vic no promo)

IBT - SPN learned CURR & traded with FRA (both are up POLY & CURR)

1025BC
Delphi warrior7 => barracks
switch SPARTA, THERMO & PHAR to library ( quicker to build then temples)
TRADE: buy POLY from FRA for Wmap & 218gold
TRADE: sell POLY to OTTO for Wmap & 111gold
can buy CURR from FRA but too expensive – wants all my gold & all my gpt

1000BC
CORINTH granary => worker
archer2 & warrior6 SE (next to Bcamp)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

QSC SUMMARY

CITIES
Athens founded in 3900BC - abandoned in 1175BC for palace jump to Corinth
Sparta founded in 2750BC
Thermopylae founded in 1790BC
Corinth founded in 1750BC
Delphi founded in 1475BC
Pharsalos founded in 1150BC - built in Athens area

UNITS
8 workers
5 warriors
2 archers
1 hoplite
2 slave workers (purchased both)
additional units which have been lost - 2 warriors & 1 archer

STATS
Pop (City size) = 11
Land Area = 10th (48 tiles - after abandoning capital)

TECHS
BW - 4000BC started with
MAS - 3250BC trade
ALPHA - 4000BC started with
POT - 2900BC trade
WHEEL - 1790BC trade
WC - 2750BC trade
CB - 2750BC trade
IW - 2110BC trade
MATH - 1375BC trade
WRIT - 2070BC researched
MYST - 1675BC trade
PHIL - 1425BC trade
COL - 1375BC trade
LIT - 1125BC trade
MAPM - 1425BC trade
HBR - 1675BC trade
POLY - 1025BC trade
REP - due in 26 turns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rest of AA

975BC
Corinth to size 6 - up lux to 50% (too many barbs to leave the workers w/o an escort)
no deals for CURR yet available (based on my current gpt)
archer2 attacks SE to Bcamp (flawless vic no promo +25gold)
disband warrior1 (trapped by Rome & India borders)

IBT to 925 - CHN learns CONST
925BC - TRADE Wmap & 292gold to FRA for CURR & Tmap
IBT to 900BC - massive uprising by PHAR – CHN sold CONST to 3 other civs - all 4 are in MA
IBT to 825BC - I'm getting pillaged by the MA barbs - I lose 3 units and production on a fully completed hoplite
825BC TRADE: CURR, Wmap & 80gold to IND for CONST - I enter MA & get MONO
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assessment
Unfortunately there are 3 visible barb camps so I am expecting to have continued troubles for a while. So far, I’ve been attacked by 10 barb horses; only 26 more to go. The barbs have been relentless in this game, but I feel I have done well. The 4 turn settler & escort factory should help me grab the iron, horse, ivory and the spice.

 

[civ_steve]

Very interesting move, DJMGator13, and the Corinth position is a strong one, but I fear you have 4 strikes against you!!

1.) No FP means the original core is suffering severe corruption and waste (I can see that Sparta has only 1 useable shield at size 2!)
2.) No Connecting road means the Furs and Wine are not helping the capital (I see Lux% is at 40)
3.) Tons of barbs will hinder your every attempt to develop
4.) The AI has your WMap, and will be moving in very soon

Good Luck!! I'll be interested to see how well you are able to develop your empire from this position; perhaps I'm reading things too pessimisticly.

 

[samildanach]

When I was reading it I assumed Gator had built the F.P. but neglected to mention it. But you're right Steve his cities are corrupt and he didn't have enough to cities to build the F.P. even if he wanted to.

It isn't going to work as a four turn settler factory as he will have to send out settlers with hoplites until the barbs are cleared. It looks like he will be able to churn out a hoplite/settler 7 and 6 turns alternating. Which isn't too bad really.

A fifth strike is that he won't be able to trade luxs or resources until he gets the cap hooked up which is going to be difficult with the barbs.

 

[DJMGator13]

Correct no FP - but I thought the New core would make up for it. I have almost a dozen workers and thought I would build a few stepping stone cities in the jungle.

My deciding factor for jumping w/o the FP was the prime real estate, the 2 additional luxes, the iron & horses.

I'll definately do a spoiler 2 write up, but I've been up in 3 straight SG's.

May finally get back to this one tonight.

 

[StanNP]

Things start badly

Sent the worker NE. Saw the green tiles, no bonuses and decided to not try and send the settler over the mountains. I was excited to find 2 forest tiles mixed into the jungle near the start location. I hoped to find more….

So Athens was founded S of starting location in jungle, next to forest and with 2 BG and one GG ready to work. Then I moved my worker NW and saw the wines! Not moving north over the mountains was a mistake.

My build over was warrior, warrior, warrior, settler. Somehow I screwed up and did not have enough food to reach size 3 for the settler. I was forced to add my worker back into Athens to complete the settler build. (First major mistake)

At the same time, I was wandering into Indian territory and came upon TWO undefended workers. Somehow, DoW happened and I grabbed the two workers. I think this ended up being the mistake that cost me the game.

3300BC – Sparta was founded in the North with access to wines and both bonus foods.

War during the initial contact phase can be bad

2190BC first Indian war ends.

The war with India was without incident for some time. I could not seem to make peace right away after they were willing to talk to me and the end result was my Indian friends brought in Korean and Rome against me. By the time I made peace with India and Korea, Rome had brought in the other 5 civs from the rest of the continent.

During my initial expansion phase I avoided building Hoplites, fearing an early GA. I think this was also a mistake, but I could have used the defense, instead of trying to survive with 2-1-1 archers. My GA started early anyway, when one of my two or so Hoplites had a chance to kill a 1 hp enemy.

My country was over run by Korea and Rome before anyone reached MA. India came back again (2nd war) and got a city East of Sparta near the fur to end the war, Korea required a city ( due West of Sparta.) and Rome sacked Athens and forced a palace jump up North to Sparta, then I had to give them a city on the Horses (SW near India and Korea).

As soon as this series of Wars ended, with my GA in full swing, I switched to Republic and then the Barbarian invasions hit. Republic was most likely a mistake. I was still at war with Otto, Arabs, Egypt, France, etc. I did not have enough cities to benefit from Republic, but my Army was too large to support directly with gold. I would later switch back to Monarchy as I was never out of War.

Entered the MI around 450BC

That sucking sound is a mortal wound

Having given up 3 cities for peace, plus my capital to a sack, and having lost multiple settlers and workers to the Barbarians, the fact I was still playing meant I was doing quite well. I had built a city on the far side of the furs in the west and my culture was enough to push China back a bit, I had a city next to the two cattle, plus a city near the ivory/iron in the south, plus a city near the Incense. My road network crossed the Jungle from north of Sparta all the way to the coast in the South near the Ivory.

Then one of my cold wars I had not ended came back to bite me. The Arabs got China to declare against me. Up to this point, I was China’s best friend, giving them anything I could. China had over run India and was sporting a 15+ rider force including a Army!. <insert shot of army here.>

They rolled over me and my only victory was killing their army. They got me down to one city before I could sue for peace. I ended the game by attacking them again, I was just too tired to try and keep going..

Suicide Settlers

I did learn one thing. You can end wars with the AI using suicide settlers.

The AI seemed to overvalue a city when I was trying to sue for peace. Since I could not sue for peace with tech, gp or gpt, my solution was to make settlers and send them out to found a city that I immediately give away to end the war. This would work in any game where you have new spaces to insert cities. Since you are building a city to give it away, you don’t need a good starting loc.

I would never have discovered this tactic in a solo game, because I doubt I would have continued to play a game I’m going to lose. So it was interesting to try and string a game out, delaying the inevitable defeat. Even then I lost patience in the end, as I could have kept one city at the iron/ivory site and tried to last a while longer.

Conquest defeat in 790AD

StanNP

 

[eldar]

I hate Barbs. I hate this map.

After screwing up my initial moves, I settled in 3850BC, then failed to settle new cities in the right order (should've gone right for the Furs, which China nabbed just ahead of me in the end), then the Game, before sending a couple of settler/hoplite pairs down south (my Hoplites performed heroically against Barbs - not a single loss, even in open ground - wish I could say the same for the lone Hoplite who lost Sparta to a solo Chinese Sword!!)

Of course, I didn't.

Going on comparisons, though, my 1000BC position (~5 cities, all AA techs apart from Constr+Govs) wasn't far short of everyone else.

The AI was seriously mean, though. At one point I was up Poly,Curr,and 1 other (MM or Lit, don't remember which) on Ottomans, who had Constr. He wouldn't trade.

Ottomam/China went into MA in 975BC (nice trading there, Mao - got a better deal than me, huh?), and I spent the next 500 years fighting barbs and building Archers to take care of 'em. Finally traded for Construction in 450BC, by which time I'm at war with China (and France and Korea), and am starting to lose cities to their far superior forces (all my Archers are down south defending against Barbs and I can't get them back quickly enough).

It was already the beginning of The (very long and drawn out...) End.

Neil.

 

[Hergrom]

Classic 33: Spoiler 1 - end of ancient age.

This is the first spoiler for GOTM 33: Greece.

The initial starting position gave you the option of settling near the jungle, or looking for something better. What did you do? Would you have settled somewhere else in hindsight?

The extra civs than normal on a standard map shouldn't have crowded you too much, as you still had a bit of room to move. But were you neighbours uncomfortably close? Did you manage to beat them to secure key strategic resources and luxuries?

Out of curiosity, after submitting my completed game at the end of last week, I decided to re-play this map by moving south of the jungle. What a difference!

I moved 7 or 8 spaces SSE and settled on the river by the two cows. With a 4 turn settler factory, I was able to settle 11 towns by 1000BC, with 3 more settled within 4 turns. Compare this to my 7 measly towns on my submitted game. In addition, I had unfettered access to iron, horses, ivory and spices (or maybe silks, don't recall). I was even able to claim the wines above the mountains before China! The tech rate was just as fast, but I was more able to keep up with it. By the end of the middle ages, I was setting the tech pace.

This game was MUCH easier than my submitted game, and in fact, I chopped off 460 years from my victory date (over 60 turns). I will concede that map knowledge helped, but the southern area in general was a superior starting position. So in hindsight, Ainwood, I would have settled in the South.

Of course, if anyone submits a game where they started in the south below the jungle, there is a 99% chance they cheated...

Hergrom

 

[zagnut]

I agree that the south was a very productive area. I went north and settled on the river. However, when I saw the horses, cows and iron in the south I shifted my focus to get them. I succeeded but ended up with a rough hourglass shaped geographical area. This occurred because China aggressively expanded into the SE area by way of Settlers delivered by Galleys and also to the west of Athens. I built the FP in the town by the 2 cows in the south so I have 2 productive cores. However, it took a long time to get there.

Also, I have to deal with China. I can't have them declaring war on me or it would be too easy for them to cut me in two. So far things have gone okay. My plan is to get to Cavalry and then attack China. They are the strongest civ in the game but with some key alliances, primarily with India, I intend to capture the cities they settled in the SE in order to eliminate the hourglass design of my territory.

 

[denyd]

With a muffled thump, the stasis pod completed the journey from Amsterdam to the soft grassland of a barren world. The light of the morning sun illuminated the inside of the pod and Mursilis slowly awoke from a deep slumber. “I wonder where I am this time,” he said to no one. The blinking message light told him that it wasn’t Alpha Centauri again and with resigned contempt he stabbed the play button with his middle finger. It was just a single word text message from Captain Ainwood, OOPS. “Oh great, what god forsaken little hellhole has he dropped me into this time.” was all Mursilis could think as he opened the pod door. The sun rising on the mountains was beautiful and would make a nice location to start from, but what was that smell. He turned to the south and as far as the eye could see was seething jungle. He said to his aide “Come on Cheetah, let’s head south”.

Just when Mursilis thought the jungle would never end, Cheetah’s machete whacked through a large frond to reveal luscious grasslands and native livestock on a meandering river. “Finally a place to call home, quick Cheetah round up some of those cattle and start improving this land” Mursilis said as his pitched camp, “I think I’ll call this place Athens”.

Hercules was sad to depart Athens without his friend Achilles, but Mursilis said he needed to know what the lay of the land was. Achilles wouldn’t complete his training for a couple of days, so Hercules set off alone to the west. Later when his training was complete Achilles would begin searching the land to the northeast.

For what seemed like weeks Hercules traveled west seeing only jungle to the north and grasslands everywhere else until the accursed jungle finally blocked his path. With courage and determination he pushed forward into the hoping Achilles wasn’t facing the same obstacles. To the northeast, Achilles had just finished his stint of jungle and stood looking up that the mountains Mursilis had told him about. “Well, up we go” Achilles said as he started to climb.

Coincidence struck as both explorers met with strangers the same time. Hercules met the polite Indian leader Gandhi, with whom a minor exchange of local crafts was made, while Achilles was only able to establish relations with Mao, as the Chinese Leader held dearly to his coveted knowledge. With his eastern routes blocked by ocean Achilles would turn west along the mountain crests to parallel Hercules’ original path.

Hercules would soon meet with Wan Kong from who the knowledge of the bow would be acquired and the Caesar from whom he could broker a deal netting The Wheel for Mursilis. Back in Athens Mursilis stood in front of the city granary watching the first of many settler teams leave the city.

As Mursilis welcomed the Egyptian Emissary into his office, he knew this was to be just the beginning of many negotiation sessions during his reign. The long hours of discussion had landed the knowledge of Mysticism, Masonry, Iron Working, Writing and Horseback Riding as well as contact with all of the other tribes sharing this world.

It had been nearly 400 years since the Egyptian Emissary had left and Mursilis Empire, now called the Greeks by the other tribes, had expanded to eight cities. The new embassies built in Sogut, the Ottoman capital and Delhi in neighboring India had led to another trading session where again, Mursilis had been an active participant. The knowledge of Mathematics, Map Making, Philosophy and a Code of Laws were now part of the Greek Culture.

The day had not been good to Mursilis, first news of the Wonder completions in Spain & Rome and then the Indian ambassador’s gift demand. Without troops to defend his lands, these ‘requests’ would only get worse.

The end of his third millennia saw Alexander, as he people now called him (I guess Mursilis was too hard to spell), with eleven cities and the largest population and land on the planet.

The discovery of Polytheism by his elders has prodded to Alexander to initiate another world wide trading session and while the acquisition of Currency, Construction and two Chinese guest workers might have depleted the Greek Treasury, the surprise gift from the gods of Feudalism would give Alexander a bargaining chip he would enjoy using. His friend Wang had gotten Monotheism as his gift and was eager to trade, but those tales are for another chapter.

Edit:

Hergrom: Of course, if anyone submits a game where they started in the south below the jungle, there is a 99% chance they cheated...

I suppose I better reply to this since I might be one of the few that went that way, although I noted in the pre-game thread my intention to head south.

Denyd: it seems like it's either settle in place or go north for everyone else, I think I'll be different south. So it's time for me and Cheetah to head into the jungle, I'll let you know what I find in the spoilers.

My decision to go south was based on a couple of things. First my cynical nature that figured someday Ainwood is going to cross us up and leave crumbs going the wrong way, second the desire to be different than everyone else, third the desire to have a productive capital and since I don't like to destroy cities, an abandoning capital palace jump was not an option and finally to get away from the mountains which don't become productive for a long time, hinder early local travel and provide barbarian havens.

BTW: I also had 11 cities, 3 luxuries (2 hooked up), both strategic resources and was the tech leader at 975 BC.