Troops, Tactics & Transportation

Khan Quest

Prince
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
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These are ideas that I posted in the original thread, that I'd like to re-post for discussion. And one new one at the bottom...

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Regrouping

Two wounded units of the same type (e.g., both Calvary) and any skill level could regroup to form a single, fully healed veteran unit. The regrouping counts as a movement point. Both units must be on the same tile. The move for the new unit will be the worse of the two original units.

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Pirates and mercinaries

The Privateer is historically accurate, but why limit piracy to one era? Ships from all era could be pirates. They could cost the same but have reduced fire power and defense. Units like swordsmen, guerillas, etc, would be mercinaries. They too would cost the same but have reduced attack and defense. The units would be upgradable. The first time a civ is attacked, they’ll have no idea who the sponsoring state is. With each subsequencent attack, the victim is increasingly likely to identify the sponsor, with a 100% chance after five attacks. This is reset every five turns of no attacks. If a pirate or mercinaries is “seen” on the same tile as other troops or entering/exiting a city, they are forever known to the observing civ as to which state is sponsoring them. This is negated with an upgrade. Espionage can help reveal and misdirect the identity of the sponsoring civ. Consider also a higher maintenance cost.
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Great Leaders

Great Leaders should have a lifespan. Assuming these geniuses arrive at age 20 and live to 120, they should disappear after 100 years. A warning before they disappear would be nice.

Great leaders ought to be capturable and ransomable.

A captured MGL should cause a significant morale loss (if morale rules are implemented). If not ransomed, then after a peace treaty has been signed, the MGL could be used to build any of the capturing civ's available military unit, or to perform one espionage function.

A captured SGL, after peace is signed, could be used as a standard SGL, but at 1/3 the ability (1/3 of Wonder cost is added for example), or to gain a free tech. The US got a lot of Rocket Scientists form Germany after WWII, which significantly boosted our knowledge.

A MGL or army created by a MGL could exert a zone of influence in enemy territory. The influence would be tile the MGL is in in any case, and the nine surrounding tiles except if enemy troops are in or adjacent to that tile. Within this boundary, all units may move freely, taking advantage of roads or rails.

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Improving ship range

I’d like to see naval units have greater range. Perhaps with flight, airdropped supplies would give all ships one more point of range. Another point could come with a tech discovery leading to refueling at sea (UNREP or underway replenishment as its called in the Navy). And a third movement point with the discovery of computers, which would lead to improved propulsion systems, etc.

Allow diesel subs to be upgraded to nuclear subs.

How about a modern naval warship? One with stealth. It couldn’t be detected until right next to another unit or one tile from the shoreline. This could be negated with the satellite tech. These warships could also be allowed two attacks.

Perhaps a small Polar Expedition wonder would allow aircraft to travel over and submarines to travel under the polar caps.

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Escort feature

Add an escort button. With a unit selected, click the escort button then on a second unit. If the two (or more) units have different movement range, the faster will keep pace with the slower and fortify at the end of the turn. The escorted unit should appear first in the stack.

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Another idea to improve ship movement.

Ships traveling through explored/known territory should get an extra movement point. Thus a galley would only move 3 when at least one of it moves puts it in a black unrevealed tile, and four otherwise.

After the discovery of Navigation, all ships gain the extra point of movement, even in unexplored regions.
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POWs

If an attacker wins a battle and has at least two points on the health bar, there is a chance it could capture the unit as a POW instead of destroying it. The chance is greatest for a militaristic civ. The player has the option of destroying the unit anyway. The attacking unit moves at the pace of the POW. The attackers attack damage is reduced by one per POW unit.
The POW maybe traded with the enemy civ, even during war, if it is willing to negotiate. A POW will disappear after 20 turns. Captured POWs increase war weariness.

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Captured Weapons

If an attacking unit defeats a more technologically advanced unit (spearman beats tank ;-), the attackers civ should get a bonus when researching that particular technology. The affect should be cumulative.

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Here’s an idea about Special Forces

Special Forces (SF) could be any normal unit which is modified as follows.
Modifications may only be done in the city with a Military Academy, except militaristic civ’s could also use the capital city.
A modification is a fixed cost per unit, such as half again the price of the original unit. It should be expensive as SF units should be rare.
Combinations are possible, if you pay the cost.

Stealth
(Stealth requires concealment.) The attack of the stealth unit is reduced by 1 or 33%, which ever is greater.

Assault
(Assault troops require heavier weapons.) Attack damage is increased by 1 or 33%, which ever is greater. The movement of the assault unit is reduced by 1, for units with a move greater than one.

Mobile
(Mobility requires light armor.) The movement of the mobile unit is increased by 1. Defense is reduced by 1 or 33%, which ever is less.

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Artillery targeting

Artillery could have selective targeting. Right-click on your artillery to toggle most-opportune-target or specified target. Most opportune would be the way it is now, the bombardment would fall the on the troops at the front (best defensive unit). At an increased chance of missing, say 25%, you target a specific unit such as a cavalry unit in a stack of infantry.

If you can fire across mountain tops two tiles away, surely you can pick out some cavalry in the tile next to you.

This ability would come at the discovery of radio (spotters can call in targeting coordinates).
 
these are good ideas :goodjob: :thumbsup:
 
Khan Quest said:
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Regrouping

Two wounded units of the same type (e.g., both Calvary) and any skill level could regroup to form a single, fully healed veteran unit. The regrouping counts as a movement point. Both units must be on the same tile. The move for the new unit will be the worse of the two original units.

Very good idea. It is only natural that on a battle field far from home, nearly destroyed units should be able to merge into a new unit.


Khan Quest said:
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Pirates and mercinaries

The Privateer is historically accurate, but why limit piracy to one era? Ships from all era could be pirates. They could cost the same but have reduced fire power and defense. Units like swordsmen, guerillas, etc, would be mercinaries. They too would cost the same but have reduced attack and defense. The units would be upgradable. The first time a civ is attacked, they’ll have no idea who the sponsoring state is. With each subsequencent attack, the victim is increasingly likely to identify the sponsor, with a 100% chance after five attacks. This is reset every five turns of no attacks. If a pirate or mercinaries is “seen” on the same tile as other troops or entering/exiting a city, they are forever known to the observing civ as to which state is sponsoring them. This is negated with an upgrade. Espionage can help reveal and misdirect the identity of the sponsoring civ. Consider also a higher maintenance cost.

Maybe you could have a certain value for each unit representing its suitability for piracy or guerilla warfare, where a unit like Guerilla would have a very high value.


Khan Quest said:
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Great Leaders

Great Leaders should have a lifespan. Assuming these geniuses arrive at age 20 and live to 120, they should disappear after 100 years. A warning before they disappear would be nice.

Great leaders ought to be capturable and ransomable.

A captured MGL should cause a significant morale loss (if morale rules are implemented). If not ransomed, then after a peace treaty has been signed, the MGL could be used to build any of the capturing civ's available military unit, or to perform one espionage function.

A captured SGL, after peace is signed, could be used as a standard SGL, but at 1/3 the ability (1/3 of Wonder cost is added for example), or to gain a free tech. The US got a lot of Rocket Scientists form Germany after WWII, which significantly boosted our knowledge.

A MGL or army created by a MGL could exert a zone of influence in enemy territory. The influence would be tile the MGL is in in any case, and the nine surrounding tiles except if enemy troops are in or adjacent to that tile. Within this boundary, all units may move freely, taking advantage of roads or rails.

I'm not so sure I like this life-span, since it isn't really integrable with the current turn time system. Why would age be represented when some turns are hundreds of years? Oh, and reaching 120 years of age isn't really that common, y'know. ;)


Khan Quest said:
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Improving ship range

I’d like to see naval units have greater range. Perhaps with flight, airdropped supplies would give all ships one more point of range. Another point could come with a tech discovery leading to refueling at sea (UNREP or underway replenishment as its called in the Navy). And a third movement point with the discovery of computers, which would lead to improved propulsion systems, etc.

Allow diesel subs to be upgraded to nuclear subs.

How about a modern naval warship? One with stealth. It couldn’t be detected until right next to another unit or one tile from the shoreline. This could be negated with the satellite tech. These warships could also be allowed two attacks.

Perhaps a small Polar Expedition wonder would allow aircraft to travel over and submarines to travel under the polar caps.

I welcome all ideas giving the navy a more important and realistic role in the game. These ideas are all good.


Khan Quest said:
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Escort feature

Add an escort button. With a unit selected, click the escort button then on a second unit. If the two (or more) units have different movement range, the faster will keep pace with the slower and fortify at the end of the turn. The escorted unit should appear first in the stack.

Has been suggested before and it would be very a very welcome addition when settling and also when protecting worker stacks in captured territory during an invasion.


Khan Quest said:
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Another idea to improve ship movement.

Ships traveling through explored/known territory should get an extra movement point. Thus a galley would only move 3 when at least one of it moves puts it in a black unrevealed tile, and four otherwise.

After the discovery of Navigation, all ships gain the extra point of movement, even in unexplored regions.

I think this has been suggested too and make sense. I would also like to add to my own ideas of making units obsolete that a galley shouldn't be able to traverse oceans even after the discovery of Navigation or Magnetism. In a huge storm on the open sea, a galley would sink. I would also want to modify combat vs subs. Seeing an ironclad put up a formidable defense against my submarines always make me want to go out and do illegal things.


Khan Quest said:
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POWs

If an attacker wins a battle and has at least two points on the health bar, there is a chance it could capture the unit as a POW instead of destroying it. The chance is greatest for a militaristic civ. The player has the option of destroying the unit anyway. The attacking unit moves at the pace of the POW. The attackers attack damage is reduced by one per POW unit.
The POW maybe traded with the enemy civ, even during war, if it is willing to negotiate. A POW will disappear after 20 turns. Captured POWs increase war weariness.

POWs should be usable as slave labour, just like captured workers. Like German POWs after Stalingrad for example.


Khan Quest said:
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Captured Weapons

If an attacking unit defeats a more technologically advanced unit (spearman beats tank ;-), the attackers civ should get a bonus when researching that particular technology. The affect should be cumulative.

Very valid point that has crossed my mind too. And we'd have to teach the AI not just how to use its artillery pieces, but actually use them at all.


Khan Quest said:
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Here’s an idea about Special Forces

Special Forces (SF) could be any normal unit which is modified as follows.
Modifications may only be done in the city with a Military Academy, except militaristic civ’s could also use the capital city.
A modification is a fixed cost per unit, such as half again the price of the original unit. It should be expensive as SF units should be rare.
Combinations are possible, if you pay the cost.

Stealth
(Stealth requires concealment.) The attack of the stealth unit is reduced by 1 or 33%, which ever is greater.

Assault
(Assault troops require heavier weapons.) Attack damage is increased by 1 or 33%, which ever is greater. The movement of the assault unit is reduced by 1, for units with a move greater than one.

Mobile
(Mobility requires light armor.) The movement of the mobile unit is increased by 1. Defense is reduced by 1 or 33%, which ever is less.

I think we're getting into workshop territory here, which is an idea that people in general don't seem to like. I'm not so keen on them either, but would instead like to see a wider variety of units and a more smooth transition between eras, where upgrading would be handled in a smarter way. In this way we'd avoid :spear: situations and you'd be able to compose your combined forces to your liking.


Khan Quest said:
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Artillery targeting

Artillery could have selective targeting. Right-click on your artillery to toggle most-opportune-target or specified target. Most opportune would be the way it is now, the bombardment would fall the on the troops at the front (best defensive unit). At an increased chance of missing, say 25%, you target a specific unit such as a cavalry unit in a stack of infantry.

If you can fire across mountain tops two tiles away, surely you can pick out some cavalry in the tile next to you.

This ability would come at the discovery of radio (spotters can call in targeting coordinates).

Makes sense, just like most of your ideas. :goodjob:
 
Lennon - Thanks for the compliments and comments.

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I did notce other posts mentioning "ships traveling through explored/known territory should get an extra movement point", but not before my original post on 3/23/04 :D

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Maybe the GL lifespan isn't such a good idea, unless they appear more frequently. If so, then rather than a "lifespan", how about "period of influence" that could expire?

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The motivation for the Special Forces idea is for game balance, allowing a civ to militarily compete with another, albiet expensively, when behind in tech or unable to secure strategic resources.

By the way, I didn't include any defensive enhancements since this has never been the case in history (as far as I know).

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LSTs

LSTs would be new transport available in the modern era (Synthetics?). Carries 8 units, moves 7, has bombardment doing damage somewhere between a frigate and a destroyer. ALL military units have move of 1 the same turn of landing (the move of 1 inclues cavalry, tanks, etc.). This represents modern, rapid deployment to the beaches using hovercraft, etc.
 
One more...

Religeous civs should not suffer an unhappiness penalty when conscripting units. Maybe this would be available after researching a new tech, Martyrdom.

Military civs should have less of an unhappiness penalty than other civs when conscripting units (except religeous). "It's our duty to fight!"
 
Totally agree that military civs should have a lower penalty when conscripting. Not so sure about adding trait-specific techs unless there are others to give trait parity. Of course they could always bring back fundamentalism as a tech but not as a government. After researching it, the unhappiness penalty for conscription and/or war weariness could be tied to the number of happy faces generated by religious improvements and wonders.
 
I kinda like your merc model, but I'll amend it with my own:
Each time you build a regular unit, a merc unit is created. This unit can be hired(by the city) for a certain initial gold cost and have a greater maintenance fee. The advanatage of mercs is that they don't have nationality, but id-ing increases with battles. Lets say that 20% increase per attack or defense and 5% decrease per turn not in combat. Once IDed, they become like regular units, regular miantenance and diplomatic consquences.

On Special Forces:
I kinda like those ideas for units, in what should be a UW-ish model. The unit upgrades would depend on era, and a place would require increasing infrastructure(Barracks to Special ops) to build the better variants. Variants wouldn't cost more to build, but they would balance out somehow. This way you could taylor your forces to whatever your terrain and the enemeies filed were like.

On Sea Movement:
There was a good thread on charting movement, but I don't hav ethe link right now. The basic idea was that whenever units passed through a square, the square was 'mapped'(once appropriate tech existed). Charted squares would be like sea roads, granting 1/3 movmeent point advantage. As tech developed, effects of accurate knowledge of sea would increase MP savings.
 
Forced March.

I apologize if this has already been suggested...

We need more 'war' ideas to balance the proposed trade & civics ideas. :)

Any unit (except artillery) could advance an extra tile beyond their normal movement for the price of a health point. Up to four extra moves could be done in one turn for a healthy elite unit.

The unit may not attack on the same turn as a forced march.
 
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