Drop the "one improvement - one city" method?

Bibor · Jul 24, 2004

In CIV3 there are two types of city improvements:
- one building for one city (improvements)
- one building for many cities (wonders)

Why not break down this rule with being able to build improvements that affect several cities?

Maybe the greatest example so far is the Palace/FP/SPHQ = its influence drops with distance and number of cities.

A national bank could increase the effectiveness of other banks in the radius.

A Cathedral could increase the effectiveness of temples in radius.

A Military Headquarters could increase the effectiveness of barracks in radius.

Etc.

No more "increase by 50%" for buildings, but a variable effectiveness, dependent on other buildings as well.

-kirby

Mewtarthio · Jul 24, 2004

Sounds good. Question, though, and this is pretty nitpicky: How do you increase the effectiveness of Barracks?

Bibor · Jul 24, 2004

A good question.

How to increase the effectiveness of harbors, barracks, ariports etc.)?

A possible solution for super barracks:
Number of citizens that can be drafted (instead of government-based ability).

A possible solution for super harbors:
Number of strategic resources/luxuries that a harbor can "connect". This would require a limit on how many resources can one harbor connect.

A possible solution for super airports:
Number of units it can transport in one turn.

A possible solution for super granaries:
A central granary that provides food for currently "starving" cities in radius.

Buildings that increase or reduce shield, food, gold, happiness, pollution output are straightforward. Simply more %.

sir_schwick · Jul 24, 2004

I favour a model that allow multiple level of improvements.

(1) Local - These are built by the city and only affect the city.
(2) Regional - These cost more, but help increase the effectiveness of more local facilities.
(3) National - These cost alot, but connect Regional facilites.

Regional Faciliites would also allow local facilites of different cities to link up and support each other. The most obvious is food management. It could also be used in conjunciton with trade, resources, and happiness.

Colonel · Jul 24, 2004

i like this idea-you could tie that idea with the province system idea-ie you build one of each type of regional building and the capital province has all the national buildings which would link all the regional buildings GOOD idea

Bluetooth · Jul 25, 2004

I like "sir schwick's" idea, and why don't bring back the Caravans

from Civ II so all cities can contribute to the building of the more costly improvements.

The Last Conformist · Jul 25, 2004

Improvements: local effect.
Small wonders: national effect, or unique effect.

Seems perfecly nice and simple already.

sir_schwick · Jul 25, 2004

No offense, Bluetooth, but I do not support bringing back caravans. They were kind of fun, but way to easy an exploit to getting through the first 1/3 of the game with virtually no money invested in Research.

dh_epic · Jul 25, 2004

I'm a fan of regional improvements, like a forbidden palace. Multiple forbidden palaces, even. I'd like to see this tied into a provincial system, something that creates natural borders within your civ automatically. But hey, there are dozens of posts on that.

Bibor · Jul 25, 2004

The Last Conformist said:
Improvements: local effect.
Small wonders: national effect, or unique effect.

Seems perfecly nice and simple already.

Oh, come on, don't be such a partybreaker :crazyeye:

biggamer132 · Jul 25, 2004

Bibor said:
Oh, come on, don't be such a partybreaker

No, he's right. All one would have to do to incorporate your system would be to add more small wonders. That simple.

dh_epic · Jul 26, 2004

I agree with the simple "add more small wonders" approach.

In fact, I might actually reduce the number of city improvements while I'm at it. For example, a nuclear power plant isn't really a one-city thing. I think this adds the benefit of a more emersive experience, while also simplifying gameplay a lot.

sir_schwick · Jul 26, 2004

I would like to see more, multiple-city improvements. I knwo this is in another thread, so I'll shutup now.

TheDarkPhantom · Jul 26, 2004

Just following on on the more than 50% comment as well.

With Factories this is already so, in the Editor they can have any production bonus in in increments of 25% (so you could create a building that boosted production byt 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%, 125% etc.) I would welcome this being true for tax, science and luxury structures too.

Also, how about buildings which generate cash on their own (much as Toruist Attractions do, but straight away, and a set amount). For example, resource specific structures such as RUbber Farms, Vineyards etc that require resources in the radius of the city could produce cash directly from their resources.

Mgoering · Jul 26, 2004

I am totaly ok with. Take the example of 5 cities next to each other like o--o--o--o--o, which are far from the Palace, but the same distance. 70% of corruption and no Courthouse. After sparing enough, you buy a Courthouse in one of them. That improvement actualy reduce the city's corruption to, lets say 50%. But the 4 other cities stay with their 70%.

I real life, somebody who made a crime in one no-courthouse city, that person is judged in the nearest courthouse. Which means that the chances of been judged are increased. So, criminality or/and corruption will be lower. The more courthouses there are, the more chances you have to be judged, even if you flee to another city.

These are the reasons why Civ4 should turn into radius. Maybe not all of them, but ones like the Courthouse and Police Station (I use those two cause I really don't like a city with both of them stiff having more than 80% corruption or even have no real effect at all).

eg577 · Jul 26, 2004

Some regional things are fine, but by and large I think improvements should stick to the city they are in.

sir_schwick · Jul 26, 2004

I think cross-city cooperation should increase over time. IN the Ancient and Middle ages cities and city states were rathe independant, save trade, from each other. In the modern ages cities rely heavily on cooperation to run their day to day business.

Drop the "one improvement - one city" method?

I would like my city improvements to:

Affect one city only (civ3 model)

Affect multiple cities (with a palace-like calculation)

Be available in both forms mentioned above.

Stay as they are now (I don't like the idea)

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