Where To? Science Poll 1

We have reached a crossroads. We can either go to the Monarchy path and pursue the Hanging Gardens and the government for of the Monarchy or the Republic Path and pursue the Great Library and the government form of the Republic.

Monarchy Path: Cer Bur (have)->Mysticism->Polytheism->Warrior Code->Monarchy

Wonders Available: Oracle, Hanging Gardens

Republic Path (with literature interlude) Alphabet->Writing->Literature->Code of Laws->Philosophy (REMINDER: This is Vanilla Civ. There is no Philo Gambit) -> Republic

Wonders Available: The Great Library (Great Lighthouse available if detour is made to Map Making)

Also available is the Currency Path, which is Masonry, Mathematics, and Currency

Wonders Available: The Great Wall

This poll will run for 24 hours and it WILL be public. Please choose from the three path choices above.

Deputy Science Minister SaaM

edit- related discussion can be found here

I don't see a poll.

MSTK said:

I don't see a poll.

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Wait a few seconds, It takes a while for the poll to show up .

I assume that Iron Working is factored in before this takes place?

Please take note that this poll is common effort by the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Science.

We're just trying to adapt our wonders poll with the techs.

This is without factoring Iron Working. This is to choose a path. Iron working would most likely find itself somewhere in the Monarchy Path, should we follow it.

Provolution said:

I assume that Iron Working is factored in before this takes place?

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Yes, it is imperative that we know where the iron is. No iron = No Samurai!

Samurai are not until the middle ages. We will have to had to research Iron Working by then, and we will know where it is.

Stuck_As_a_Mac said:

Samurai are not until the middle ages. We will have to had to research Iron Working by then, and we will know where it is.

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Thats true, The Samurai will only come after the discovery of Chivalry.

Stuck_As_a_Mac said:

Samurai are not until the middle ages. We will have to had to research Iron Working by then, and we will know where it is.

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True... but if we expand in the wrong direction because we couldn't SEE the Iron (not due to fog but due to tech), and thus lose our Iron, we would be severly crippling ourselves.

Edit: I dislike the format of this Poll, what if I want to research Masonry -> Iron -> Monarchy line.
Pyramids seem destined to win, however, if we follow this format we will have to defy this poll if anything but the Currency path wins.
What happened to polling the techs one at a time? Unless this is only intended to be informational, and thus gives us no definate awnser on what we should research after the current tech.

Sure, but I find it best to make sure you know where the iron is anyway. (And don't forget we'll need Swordsmen, too)

I don't like the format of this poll either. You say it's a Tech path choice, but you promote Wonders as a basis for choosing. What seems to be the most popular Wonder (The Pyramids) is not mentioned in this poll. What seems to be the most popular Tech (Iron Working) is not mentioned in this poll. Then there's the fact that you use the Great Lighthouse to promote the Republic path, but don't include Mapmaking in the path (kinda sneaky). Overall, the poll needs to be rethought and reworked. This is bad logic, Stuck.

One thing I do like about this poll is that it shows the different lengths of time we will be STUCK in Despotism. With the Monarchy path, we're looking at 4 techs (160 turns). With the Republic path, we're looking at 6 techs (80 turns more), unless you're going to add Mapmaking (seeing how you use it to promote the Republic path), then it's 7 techs worth of time (120 turns more). If this is the path that the AI doesn't take (info supplied by CT), then the amount of time spent on each tech will be maximized. Not a good thing.

So even though we don't know where the heck Iron Working fits into the hellish poll, I'm still going to vote Monarchy as we need to leave this form of government as soon as possible.

Falcon02 said:

True... but if we expand in the wrong direction because we couldn't SEE the Iron (not due to fog but due to tech), and thus lose our Iron, we would be severly crippling ourselves.

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Capping a neighbor city with iron or trading for it are also possibilities... It could wind up that there is no iron near our starting loc or someone will already claim it by the time we get there.

Cyc said:

So even though we don't know where the heck Iron Working fits into the hellish poll, I'm still going to vote Monarchy as we need to leave this form of government as soon as possible.

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I was undecided about what to vote on in this poll, but your reasoning has swayed me. I still believe we have to fit IW in there pretty quickly, but Monarchy always works for me.

Not enough wonders were listed for the republic path. The Great Library is in there, not to mention a good number of improvements, and diplomatic abilities that come in handy.

I would claim iron working to be distinct from the Monarchy path, there are to many subjective leads in this poll, as if meant to overtly pacify Japanatica. Iron Working will under all circumstances be needed to protect the national interest, especially with the less troops Republic has to offer. I am also surprised that my very assisitant is siding up with a poicy shift that may cripple or diplomatic choice of action severely. We have a ravaging barbarian level, only one set of luxury, diamonds some distance away, and a city that begs for political stabilization with temple and wonders.

So, do not bundle Iron Working with Wonders OR Monarchy with the intent to cripple that option. Besides city placement will heavily rely on if we have iron or not.
Without Iron, we know we have to produce a larger amount of low quality troops which is costier in order to maintaint the same level of security.

With ravaging barbarians, it is not enough sending a lone warrior scouting, we need combined battlegroups, as Sarevok and Falcon02 has written long threads about, if they are not given the means to do their job right, I cannot see why all of you voted for them wit such an overwhelming majority. As Foreign Minister I need all culture, science, economy and the military to work together, but right now science and culture seems to have forgotten our fundamental security needs.

If there is no iron within our sight, I may even consider The Republic Route and The Construction Route in order to secure Great Wall, until the time we have more modern
weapons, and dig in if we cannot build our UU. Iron will decide a lot, and Iron was one of the top three issues in all of the election campaigns but in culture.

Rik Meleet was also voted in for the Iron Route as Science Minister, something I hope the Culture folks have not talked SAAM out of.

When I think Japan, I think Monarchy.

Plus while this info can be construed as informational, I would rather see techs polled on an as-needed basis.

I like the idea of starting off by polling which branch of the tech tree people approve. The format of the poll may not be as crisp as it could be, but the general idea is a good one. Why, you might ask, when we have a long history of polling techs one at a time? This is one of the few places I've seen truly strategic questions being asked of the citizens.

Wonder discussions aside, this poll can be reduced to, do you want to go for Monarchy, Republic, or tech trading?

Stuck, when I said it would be a good idea to poll a path, thought it was in addition to the next tech to be placed in the instructions. You still have time to also run a next tech poll.

Monarchy is teh best!!!

I'll vote Monarchy path, but I believe our next tech should be Iron Working