Should the Domestic Department govern the Capital Province?

The Capital Province should be governed by...

  • The Domestic Department (current system).

    Votes: 11 50.0%

  • A duly elected governor (like every other province).

    Votes: 10 45.5%

  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 1 4.5%

  • Abstain

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
Shaitan

Shaitan

der Besucher
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Location
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The Domestic Leader is the Provincial Governor of the 1st province (the Capital Province). This is done for ease in game startup. Eyrei's explanation appears a few posts down from this one and was confirmed by the Duke of Marlbrough as being correct.

Is this still necessary or desired?

This topic has been debated in this thread.

EDIT: Removed Eyrei's quote from this post.
 
unbelievable....
 
Shaitan, I do not believe any points of view should be put into the first post of the poll. Or in any of the votes. Eyrei's explanation belongs in another post further down, with the rest of the Citizens's opinions. Especially the bit about the "floundering". You may see it as the original reasoning, but many might not.
 
Originally posted by chiefpaco
Shaitan, I do not believe any points of view should be put into the first post of the poll. Or in any of the votes. Eyrei's explanation belongs in another post further down, with the rest of the Citizens's opinions. Especially the bit about the "floundering". You may see it as the original reasoning, but many might not.
Click to expand...
I generally agree with that. In this case, Eyrei's quote with the Duke's confirmation is the only explanation we have for the current policy. I will edit it to clarify that Eyrei was talking about the beginning of the game and we are dealing with the current situation.

EDIT: Actually, I'll do exactly what chiefpaco suggested ;)
 
I think it should be an elected position, like the other provences, but the Domestic Min. should have the final say if there's any disputes. (i.e., in a turn chat, if the mil. dept.'s suggestion conflicts with, say the Province of Ameri, and there's a vote), or, if there's changing circumstances. For example, the capital provence might be building habors and libraries (in queue), but an unforseen event, such as an invasion, would have to override those plans, or maybe delay them.
 
This is my summary of the reasons why we have the current system:

While the country is still small, it is quite possible and more efficient for one person to control all of the domestic department responsibilities as well as the build queues. If you had a domestic leader and a governor of all of the cities, who disagreed on everything, the expansion of the empire would flounder. It also allows the domestic leader to lead by example for the other governors as the game progresses. Further, as the domestic department is in charge of wonder building, it gives the department choice cities to build wonders.
 
Originally posted by Shaitan

I generally agree with that. In this case, Eyrei's quote with the Duke's confirmation is the only explanation we have for the current policy. I will edit it to clarify that Eyrei was talking about the beginning of the game and we are dealing with the current situation.

EDIT: Actually, I'll do exactly what chiefpaco suggested ;)
Click to expand...

Fair polls with unbiased 1st posts should be standard. I propose it at least as an informal rule.
 
I don't think a poll should have specific quotes about the issue being voted on. They should be as impartial as possible and just contain a link to the discussion thread with some basic info.

I think the Domestic Leader should be the Governor of the first province, but I also think that the Deputy Domestic Leader should not apply to the governorship directly. IIRC, there are already proceedures in place in case a province does not have current build queues.

So, I think option 1, but with slightly clarified roles of the Deputy Domestic Leader. (Edit: Which would be the topic of the next possible poll. ;))
 
Argh! So much for taking the time to explore alternative options such as the one postulated by Zur. I'd very much hoped you'd post the other poll first, so as to clear up what the current situation is before deciding on whether we want to change it or not. I think we should have waited until discussion had produced a fairly stable set of options for voting on.

EDIT: Now I'm faced with either having to vote on something which I don't yet feel decided upon, since the details of what I saw as a potentially viable solution have not been worked out. I don't feel I can choose either of the poll's stated options, because I think a third one MIGHT be better... but since this 3rd idea has not yet been developed I don't know if I agree with it either, so voting "other" is out. And abstaining implies that I'm not concerned with this issue, which is emphatically not the case. This really was premature, Shaitan. :nono:
 
Originally posted by Eklektikos
Argh! So much for taking the time to explore alternative options such as the one postulated by Zur. I'd very much hoped you'd post the other poll first, so as to clear up what the current situation is before deciding on whether we want to change it or not. I think we should have waited until discussion had produced a fairly stable set of options for voting on.
Click to expand...

That option is moot, as the game is well underway. If you feel that the time for that change is not yet upon us, then that can be decided at that time in the future. I had assumed that he was referring to something that should have already happened. Of course, I could be wrong.
 
Originally posted by Eklektikos
Argh! So much for taking the time to explore alternative options such as the one postulated by Zur. I'd very much hoped you'd post the other poll first, so as to clear up what the current situation is before deciding on whether we want to change it or not. I think we should have waited until discussion had produced a fairly stable set of options for voting on.
Click to expand...
Zur's idea would affect a new Demo game, not this one. I agree that it should be adressed but it's subordinate to this one. Background: Zur suggested that the Domestic Dept govern the Capital for a certain amount of time then pass the province over for gubernatorial elections.

The other poll is to determine if the Domestic Deputy inherits gubernatorial powers along with Domestic powers when filling in for an absent Leader. As that poll would be nullified by certain results of this poll it is also subordinate and must follow.

No matter how this poll turns out both of the other issues will be addressed, if only to perfect the Constitution for the next Demo game.
 
Originally posted by Eklektikos
EDIT: Now I'm faced with either having to vote on something which I don't yet feel decided upon, since the details of what I saw as a potentially viable solution have not been worked out. I don't feel I can choose either of the poll's stated options, because I think a third one MIGHT be better... but since this 3rd idea has not yet been developed I don't know if I agree with it either, so voting "other" is out. And abstaining implies that I'm not concerned with this issue, which is emphatically not the case. This really was premature, Shaitan. :nono:
Click to expand...
There's no 3rd option that I can see. Either the Domestic Department governs the Capital Province or it does not. This poll is for right here, right now. It doesn't address issues of a new game - we'll do that later.
 
unbelievable....
 
Originally posted by Cyc
unbelievable....
Click to expand...

I believe he heard you the first time. This topic has been up for discussion for over 24 hours. There is nothing unbelievable about a poll being posted. We cannot halt the entire government process every time someone has a new idea. I apologize to Zur, as it was not a bad idea, only it would have been an excellent idea at the outset. That option and option number 2 are essentially the same. Both call for the election of another governor to take over the capital province. All the addition of another option would do is prolong this nearly washed out and inflammatory discussion and skew the poll results.
 
I just felt that since we had a healthy and increasingly constructive discussion of the possibilities going that it would have been possible to settle the whole issue for all time in one neat poll without the slightly dubious "other (please explain)" category being needed at all. Sure, future games are not a burning issue but it would have been nice to get it set down in stone while we were on the subject.
 
Zurs idea is a viable one, but if you follow the thinking through, it doesn't need to be discussed further for this poll. It is basically a 'we should have done' idea. It can't be implemented in the fashion he is saying since we have already pasted that point.

If you like the idea, then you vote option 2, if you think it should stay as it, you vote option 1. We can't go back and say that the governorship should have been split in the past, we can only change how it is handled in the future.

If you want to work out the details of it for future games, then there is still plently of time to do so before the next one starts.


Edit: I can't spell right when I'm trying to hurry (and sometimes when I'm going slow also ;)).
 
Eyrei: I apologize to Zur, as it was not a bad idea, only it would have been an excellent idea at the outset.
Click to expand...

There is no need to apologize to me since Shaitan had already clarified that this would affect a new game but not the current one.

However, this confusion could have been avoided if Shaitan had mentioned something about it in the 1st post or even in the thread to which the 1st post was linked to, to avoid any further accusations of "rail-roading". If Shaitan had not clarified it above, then my first impression would have been that "rail-roading" was happening.
 
Originally posted by Zur


There is no need to apologize to me since Shaitan had already clarified that this would affect a new game but not the current one.

However, this confusion could have been avoided if Shaitan had mentioned something about it in the 1st post or even in the thread to which the 1st post was linked to, to avoid any further accusations of "rail-roading". If Shaitan had not clarified it above, then my first impression would have been that "rail-roading" was happening.
Click to expand...
Sorry about that. In my own twisted little mind it was a separate issue and I didn't think of explaining why.
 
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