Presidential Election Needed

Bill_in_PDX · May 19, 2002

Reviewing the chat thread today I have learned that our President is resigning. I congratulate him for exceptional work in setting up our nation for ultimate victory. I think his real life time conflicts are taking their toll, and I wish Grey Fox a speedy completion of those projects so he can return to a prominant role in our government.

That being said, I call for an open election for President immediately. Our constitution does not deal with resignation of a cabinet official, let alone our president.

I disagree with the concept that the line of succession defined for turn chat running of the game applies automatically when someone resigns. That section of the consitution clearly discusses the turn chat and game turns themselves, not the positions.

This should not be read as a negative view of our Vice President Eyrei. I just feel we have an issue that should be dealt with immediately.

Bill
....in PDX

Cyc · May 19, 2002

Greetings Bill. While I respect your opinion on the matter, I believe that one of the Vice-President's responsibilities is to fill in for the Pres if he is killed, missing, gone, whatever. In the case of the new Governor for Province #5, the Constitution clearly calls for an immediate Election to cover the position. Because the Governors Election is spelled out in the Constitution, I believe it is a completely different set of circumstances. I would suggest Eyrei take over for Grey Fox until the end of the month. Your thoughts?

Plexus · May 20, 2002

I agree, Eyrei should take over.

Justus II · May 20, 2002

I also agree, Eryei would be taking over as the Vice President, which is part of the duty description, not as Domestic Leader, which would be by chain of command. I think that is actually the primary responsibility of the position.

Maybe we need to specify in the constitution, though, what the line of succession would be. I think it would be the COC, BTW. For example, in the US, after the Vice President, it goes to Speaker of the House, President Pro Tem of the Senate, Secretary of State and then down the line for cabinet officials. Similar to our COC.

donsig · May 20, 2002

I agree that the VP becomes president now that Grey Fox has resigned. I'm not so sure a special election is a good idea. If we take two days to decide to have an election, then spend two days taking nominations then have a two day election poll we'd be two or three days away from beginning nominations for the third term! In the mean time would we suspend the game or carry on as we have?
As for the governor election, well, if the constitution calls for it we must do it but the new gov will have to run again right away. Remember SKILORD? He was elected in a special election and when the term two election came around there was a motion to let him remain gov without standing for re-election. I thought all was agreed on that and the next thing I know Greater Cormyr was basically disolved! SKILORD's leave of absence became permanent. I am thus wary of special elections.
While the constitution does not specifically deal with resignations it only stands to reason that we have deputies to move into the leadership positions in case of resignations.

Shaitan · May 20, 2002

I also agree. The Deputy is there to take over the Leader's duties if the Leader leaves. Similarly, Donsig will become Domestic Leader as Eyrei cannot be President and Domestic Leader at the same time. He could, however be the Domestic Deputy. By the same token we've established that the Domestic Leader serves as Vice President if the Vice President spot is vacant. Summary:

President - Eyrei
Vice President - Donsig
Domestic Leader - Donsig
Domestic Deputy - Eyrei

eyrei · May 20, 2002

I cannot, in good conscience, accept the position of president right now, due to my lack of home internet access. The primary role of the president is to play the game, and I would not be able to do it. I second Bill's motion to hold an emergency election for a interim president.

Shaitan · May 20, 2002

Okay, let's step back a bit and see where we are and what our options are.

Eyrei is the Vice President so he is now acting President. If we continue as we are now without a promotion to the Presidency or a special election the game is still workable. GreyFox has not been to the past several chats so the game has fallen to players on the COC. Eyrei would be responsible for the schedule, the game would be played by the highest person in the COC at the start of the chat turn.

If we pass the Presidency down the COC it falls to Falcon02 next. Charis becomes Military Leader and somebody is promoted to Deputy.

If we hold a special election, then (as Donsig said) the new Pres will be in place a few days before we start up the next election process. Actually, now that I look at the date, the new Pres will be in place after the new election process has already started. It's the 20th now and nominations begin on the 24th.

I recommend that we do nothing and allow the COC to run the game as if we had an absent President.

eyrei · May 20, 2002

Another suggestion I have, though I am still waiting for a reply from Donsig on this matter, which would include switching our positions in the domestic department, and then my temporary resignation as VP. This would effectively make Donsig interim president and leave the rest of the COC unchanged. The plus side of this would be that, as donsig will be playing the turns anyway, he might as well be president. I realize this is a little bizarre, but it also seems to have the simplest outcome.

Shaitan · May 20, 2002

I don't know, Eyrei that sounds a little machiavellian. Donsig would only be playing the game if my original suggestion was implemented.

eyrei · May 20, 2002

Originally posted by Shaitan
I don't know, Eyrei that sounds a little machiavellian. Donsig would only be playing the game if my original suggestion was implemented.

Hehe. I used to read "The Prince" about once a month back in high school. Playing the game is the main power of the president, so Donsig would effectively be president in your suggestion as well. Why not just give him the actual title? Chances that he will need to make a decision to veto anything are slim to none, as it has not happened once, and I am sure he would make a decision with the interest of Phoenatica at heart if he were called upon to make a decision.

I guess I am being slightly selfish here, as well. If we follow the COC, I become president, which would be fine if I could actually play the turns. But I can't. So I end up losing my position and ability to make decisions for the domestic department and gain only the ability to break ties in non-existent cabinet votes. It just doesn't really make sense. My first choice would be to hold an emergency election, but this other option I have presented would save time.

donsig · May 20, 2002

I would love to be president and play the game BUT I'm usually at work during turn chats and can't play the game at work.

So it doesn't really make sense for me to be president either.

I have one more option to add to the mix:

It seems to be in the best interest of our country to not accept Grey Fox's resignation. He can remain president, the staus quo rules and the CoC is used for the turn chat as it has been. If Grey Fox doesn't update the schedule for the turn chat it would then fall to eyrei as VP to update it. If it doesn't get updated we roll it over anyway, right?

With the new elections so close what do you all think?

Now if we had done away with or modified the turn chat this would have taken a very different turn I think.

eyrei · May 20, 2002

Originally posted by donsig
I would love to be president and play the game BUT I'm usually at work during turn chats and can't play the game at work. So it doesn't really make sense for me to be president either.

I have one more option to add to the mix:

It seems to be in the best interest of our country to not accept Grey Fox's resignation. He can remain president, the staus quo rules and the CoC is used for the turn chat as it has been. If Grey Fox doesn't update the schedule for the turn chat it would then fall to eyrei as VP to update it. If it doesn't get updated we roll it over anyway, right?

With the new elections so close what do you all think?

Now if we had done away with or modified the turn chat this would have taken a very different turn I think.

If you were president, you could set the time for the turn chats, I think. Anyway, not accepting Grey Fox's resignation seems like a pretty good idea. If there are not any tied council votes, things will go smoothly, just as if our pres was on vacation....

Shaitan · May 20, 2002

Eyrei, you are acting President in GreyFox's absence. Call an Administrative Council Vote to overrule GreyFox's resignation. An Administrative Council Vote can overrule the decision of any department head.

This way it's all legal.

eyrei · May 20, 2002

Agreed.

eyrei · May 20, 2002

See the government sub-forum for the cabinet poll . Donsig will be representing the domestic department, as I will be acting president until this poll is concluded (and maybe beyond if things do not go the way I want....)

disorganizer · May 20, 2002

are we gone crazy?

which sense does it make to vote about a resignation of someone!

NONE!

"hey, i dont want this internet-access for 20$ a month any more." "well, we voted and you have to stay with it!".
what a nonsense!

but another proposal:
we ran without a pres in the chat for the last week, why not one or two more weeks? if eyrei accepts, he would take the responsibilities of the official administration, while the lead of chat turns goes down the coc, which DOES NOT MATTER!

we could even continue WITHOUT a president at all!

Shaitan · May 20, 2002

we could even continue WITHOUT a president at all!

This is esentially what we're voting on. If we accept GreyFox's resignation we have a lot of bumping about through the Executive and Domestic Departments. By "retaining" GreyFox we will go on as we have the past several chats.

disorganizer · May 20, 2002

well. its not to us to accept or not accept. eyrei can accept and his deputy takes over the domestic-leader position. its only for one-two weeks.
did someone ask gf if he wants to recall his resignation under this aspects?

eyrei · May 20, 2002

Originally posted by disorganizer
well. its not to us to accept or not accept. eyrei can accept and his deputy takes over the domestic-leader position. its only for one-two weeks.
did someone ask gf if he wants to recall his resignation under this aspects?

We are only trying to simplify this change, and make it less drastic because of the nearness of the election, which is, I think, what you desire as well. Were I to become president right now, it would not effect which person plays the game, as I cannot play from home. What it would do, is rearrange the domestic department, effectively making Donsig the domestic leader and the VP. Since I cannot play, donsig would essentially be president and domestic leader. By keeping Grey Fox as president, even though he will also not be playing the game, the only thing that changes is that the first person in the COC as far as playing the game would change. If instructions are clearly posted, it makes little difference who plays as long as we are at peace. Let's wait until the election to completely shake up the administration to avoid chaos.

Presidential Election Needed

Grumpy Submariner

Looking for the door...

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