protest march in cyrrus

delphi county administration organizes a protest march in cyrrus before the next chat takes place.

reason:
the governor of kashmir has ignored or overseen the requests of his major multiple times during the term, and even the uprising next governor showed to continue this way of despotism for the next term by posting a request not based on any proposed queues nor on any discussion with his citizen (evidence can be found here).

WE SHALL NOT SIT BACK AND WATCH OUR PROVINCES FALL BACK TO DESPOTISM!

this poll is inofficial and done to determine participation on this protest march!
the poll is up for 5 days.

for all non-kashmir citizens: please also participate!
TODAY ITS KASHMIR, TOMORROW IT MIGHT BE YOUR HOME!

i will march

This is an outrage!!!
Disorganiser claims that the Governor Civinator has been acting against citizen will and that the new Governor Toasty has also. What is actually meant by this is that they have acted against DISORGANISER'S will. In the Kashmir, Delphi and Delphi County threads there is only 1 request (weeks ago) by a citizen of Kashmir that is not disorganiser. Have a look!! The so called 'citizen input' is all from one citizen, the same one who now organises this 'march'. He claims control over all the area of Delphi county and feels the need to 'authorise' things that are in reality the sphere of the Governor. If disorganiser wants to run the province, why didn't he run?? How much say do you think others would get if he did? If we do hold a protest march it should be about the inordinate amount of power claimed by disorganiser. This is not about the citizens, it is about one persons attempt to gain control of his own little empire without being elected or paying any attention to the constitution!!

Vote NO to the march, vote YES to the constitution

I voted no, 'cos Almightyjosh's speech is just too good!
If civanator is such a bad governor more people would have came out and spoke in the Kashmir thread, I for one don't think Civanator is such a bad governor, (though I do think Toasty will do a better job).

i did not blame it on civinator (in fact, i even didnt use ANY name in here!).

the problem is that the queues of ALL kashmir cities were changed without talkback (look through the threads) where there were mayors to put them up.

and maybe its just some ppl who care about their cities more than others. some cities also dont have mayors, so who could complain there?

this protest march is intended to show the governors that they cant act out of the blue. without interacting with their citizens.

Another thing: even if the build queue was put up by me, it contained no elements which were not allowed near a national park. As the majority of citizens voted for the park (the restrictions were in the poll, as no building of polluting improovements), they also voted for them(!).
The reason for this here is also that a polluting improovement was introduced to the queue. Without any talkback, and without ANY approval or discussion! Immediately before the chat without any chance for citizenry to comment (and for the ones sake this was also too late to have influence on the decissions at the chat!).

my build queues for sunshine beach has also been ignored!

Dis, exactly how much citizen discussion do you enter before posting your build ques?? None?? Thats what it looks like the thread.

Almightyjosh. You accuse Dis of only thinking of himself. Yet it's fine for you to complain about the plight of Governors (which is a JOKE), there I said it. Why should we listen to you? You are just thinking about your self! I haven't heard other Governors complain. I didn't complain when I was a Governor (TWICE!) It's all you and your concerns.....

There. How does that feel Almightyjosh? That's what you're doing to Dis, and it's not right. Dis has a right to voice his opinion and try to seek a better way for him and his. Just like you are doing. I myself am a Phoenatican citizen living in Kashmir. In fact I'm the Mayor of the Capital city of Cyrus. I have completely given up on Civanator as a Governor. He's never here. He never makes decisions based on the embetterment of the Province. He doesn't even have access to the game! This Domestic Leader grades this Governor very poor in the responsibilty category. And WE are fed up with the lack of Governor concern with our Province. This SUCKS! There hows that for citizen support for the March! Now you can bet your ass I'll be there. I'll be the one hanging the burning scarecrow with the "GOV" sign on it.
We need a Governor who cares what the citizens think. Sure the governors make the decisions for the Province. Sure they are the ones held responsible because they're the ones elected. But it should be a give and take situation. From the grass roots to the President, we all need to work together.

If you don't stop criticizing Disorganizer' motives, I will put you on my list and come down on you hard. So think about it. He has all the right in the world to say what he says.

Originally posted by trader/warrior
my build queues for sunshine beach has also been ignored!

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I even asked about Sunshine beach in chat. Its' build queue ran out, and the governor did seem a bit distracted. The governor does not have total access to a computer, so his time to browse the forum might be limited... But, it was a bit hard getting build queues from him during the turn chat..

I will allow the protest to go foward as a message to all governors to listen to their mayors and citizens.

Of course if you'd really wanted to get the attention of everybody you could have asked for a PI earlier on... Doesn't seem to be much point now, since you're going to be getting a new, and hopefully more attentive, governor in a day or two.

1st action: i put it up in the thread and pmed
2nd action: then i put it up in thread (province domestic president judical) and pmed him
3rd action: i started this

should i have made up a pi directly? no. i even dont make up a pi now (historical issue). but i pillory the issues i see with our current system! it maybe isnt even the persons themselves (i stated no names here on purpose), but the system which supports the governors in acting like this.

The PIs are supposed to be the failsafe which prevents governors or whomever from acting this way. The system only supports it if you choose to rule out PIs as an option.

That said, I did not intend my post as a criticism but just a a reminder that you could have taken it further if you'd chosen to. And yes, I know that you and PIs are a... controversial... combination so I can understand why you'd have been loathe to initiate one

I'll also say that I'll be joining your march, as I'm against uninformed and uncooperative governance. When I was governor of Asphinxia I always consulted its citizenry on build queues. There was never any dissent though. Strange, huh?

We are also at the soon start of a next game. Maybe we could improove our ruleset to give mayors more power...
But this is another proposal (i made one attempt on the senate-thread though ;-). If someone wants to discuss, please open a thread. I will be willing to contribute some ideas ;-)

Originally posted by Cyc
Yet it's fine for you to complain about the plight of Governors (which is a JOKE), there I said it. Why should we listen to you? You are just thinking about your self! I haven't heard other Governors complain. I didn't complain when I was a Governor (TWICE!) It's all you and your concerns.....

There. How does that feel Almightyjosh?

Click to expand...

be nice cyc

Truth be told, I don't mind all that much (please come and participate in the senate debate, even if only to critisise me!). I critesise the actions of disorganiser not because he has concerns, or because he voices them, or even that he comes to the issue with an angle, we all do!! (an aside as to the senate, of course as a senator I want to see the senate active, but you will see plenty of discussion in the senate thread, but this is not the relevant issue here).

No, my problem is with the fact that dis id complaining that the Governor is ignoring citizens requests, when the only citizen making requests is him. He would have his judgement stand in place of the Governor's when he is niether elected nor in consultation with the citizenry. This is blatant hypocracy.

On the charge that the governance of Kashmir was not the best it could be, there is no debate. In fact, I think Disorganiser would make an excellent governor for that province. However, he is not the governor, nor is he the 'voice of the people', as it seems other Kashmiris are a little shy and won't even post ideas. Dis does have a right to voice his opinion, but he does not have the right to demand that his ideas be interprited as the will of the people and his suggestions followed. What I see here is a non-elected official claiming powers not owed to them.

Finally, for you Cyc as I don't think dis is quite concerned about what I have to say about him , disorganiser is a fine citizen and a credit to Delphi. As to his MOTIVES, I don't think that they are malicious, nor even misguided. He is merely VERY misguided as to what constitutes the will of the people and what his own power actually is and should be. To uphold the constitution, yes the governor must follow the people's will, but this does not mean that if a citizen offers a sugesstion that it must be followed (even given NO counter sugestions) if it has no other support, nor does it mean that citizens can claim the governor didn't do what they want IF THEY NEVER OFFER SUGGETIONS as would be the case with most of the citizens who would be marching!!

(lucky for you I mellow on the second speech, just keep me talking for long enough and I'll be marching too )

I will be happy to see you there to discuss live ;-)

But to your point:
If i was the only citizen of delphi, i would be the will of citizenry, as this matters only concern delphi.

I am not, so i put up the queues for discussion. Nobody discussed, so it is agreed (if we wait for a positive comment on every decission we would take forever to play, so we must presume non-voicing as positive comment).

I dont say governors should have no say in the queues, i just want to show governors that they should start discussion rather than proclaim, as the first would be (kind of) democraty and the second would be pure despotism.

Thats fine, but when the discussions involve only one citizen, and you want the governor to follow the outcome of said discussions, the voice of one unelected citizen comes to overide the voice of the governor. A mayor suggests a buildque and there is no discussion or support, a Governor posts THE buildque and gets there is no discussion or support, why should we follow the will of the unelected mayor instead of the elected governor???

btw, it took me 20mins to prepare that speech and you answered in like 30sec, I'm impressed.

Well, i dont want to make a show ;-P

But maybe the mayor is informed of some things better than the governor is. The governor only sees the numbers, but as he is far away from the cities heart, he cant feel the city.

Delphi has a history of nonpullution and natural preserve. The citizens moven there BECAUSE the mayor pushed the improovement of the are in the way it is now.

Why should a elected person have a better judgement than a unelected person?

If someone would have complains against the proposals, he could have mentioned it.

And if nobody is against, all seem to comply.

It's not a case of "better judgement", but one of possessing an actual mandate to post the queues. However, an elected official must still listen to and engage with the citizenry. If a citizen makes a suggestion then that suggestion should be acknowledged, and if the official goes against that suggestion he at least owes the citizens an explaination for his course of action prior to it being carried out. Disagreeing with people and not following their suggestions is one thing, ignoring them entirely is another matter.

Originally posted by Eklektikos
It's not a case of "better judgement", but one of possessing an actual mandate to post the queues. However, an elected official must still listen to and engage with the citizenry. If a citizen makes a suggestion then that suggestion should be acknowledged, and if the official goes against that suggestion he at least owes the citizens an explaination for his course of action prior to it being carried out. Disagreeing with people and not following their suggestions is one thing, ignoring them entirely is another matter.

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That's it! That's exactly the problem.

(saves me from having to write it)