Const. Reforment

I am going to post everything that I think we should change in the demogame rules(or add).

# The Executive Branch is headed by the President, who shall be the designated player of the game, and shall include a council of leaders, each of whom heads a department that is responsible for one major facet of the country. These departments are Domestic, Foreign, Military, Science, Culture and Trade. Each of these departments will be generally responsible for the items found under the respective Advisor in the Civilization III game and esoteric aspects that fall under their department name.

I think the council should make up thier own section. The President, Vice President, and anyone the president choose's for a certain job should be the exective branch. The council should make up their own branch of goverment.

# The Legislative Branch will be formed of two houses. The Senate will be formed of the Provincial Governors, each of whom are responsible for the care, management and use of the cities and lands of a province in addition to legislative responsibilities. The Congress will be formed of the entirety of the citizenry.

Replace the congress with a new council department. The Citizens Department. The leader will be incharge of making sure citizen views are heard.

# The Legislative Branch will be formed of two houses. The Senate will be formed of the Provincial Governors, each of whom are responsible for the care, management and use of the cities and lands of a province in addition to legislative responsibilities. The Congress will be formed of the entirety of the citizenry.

Re-create the congress to be a group of heads... The President heads the executive branch so is automatically part of the congress. The council votes for a head and that head becomes part of the congress. Same with legislative & the normal citizens.(The judicary has a starting head also.) Thus they will consist of:

President
Department Leader
Senete member
Cheif Justice
Normal Citizen

The will be in charge of deciding on major decisions. (IE: Large const. change etc.) Each part of the demogame is represented if you choose the congress this way.

No Political Parties (slate polling) are allowed

I think if we set down the right rules then we could have political parties without it causing choas. IE:

The Judicary if they notice or get a complaint that a politcal party is causing trouble is allowed to disband(remove) that party from existance.

# Council Votes (Executive Branch)

1. A quorum requires the attendance of 2/3 of the Council.
2. Administrative Council Vote
1. Called by the President.
2. Affirmative result overrules an elected official’s instructions and decisions for game play.
3. Simple majority of respondents required to override the official.

During a council vote... All departments get 1 vote except for the Citizens Department who gets two votes.

New Rule

Department leaders are required to post a poll over any topic if a single citizen requests it.

If we set it up this way (still a rough draft) we put a citizen into each area of the goverment (pretty close) The COC will go like this:

Congress
President (DP starting poistion)
Vice President
Cheif Justice
Council Head
Senate head
Department leaders
judicary
senate
deputies
chat reps
other

This puts the congress has the most powerful group, but divids the congress up where everyone is represented.

Its possible that the constitution needs some rule changes and i like the idea of the department for citizens, but i think the COC should stay the same wiith a few small tweeks if any new departments are created

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
Its possible that the constitution needs some rule changes and i like the idea of the department for citizens, but i think the COC should stay the same wiith a few small tweeks if any new departments are created

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Why do you think that? The current const. doesn't seem to really be working out that much.... Also this way EVERYONE is represeted somehow or someway.

In a single word in reponse to your proposal:

No.

Strider, what makes you convinced that such a radical change is necesary?

One thing, though...

New Rule
Department leaders are required to post a poll over any topic if a single citizen requests it.

Click to expand...

This already a rule. If three people demand a poll, the leade must comply.

Originally posted by Octavian X
In a single word in reponse to your proposal:

No.

Strider, what makes you convinced that such a radical change is necesary?

One thing, though...



This already a rule. If three people demand a poll, the leade must comply.

Click to expand...

Because

1) Are const. is screwed up.... Why do you think we lost alot of people back around Demogame I Term III & IV? They did not like the const. It's screwed up and needs a change....badly....

This idea also represents each person without the option of posting a poll for every single thing inside of this game. We are losing people because of how slow the game is moving. and it's slow because we let it turned to much democratic. It is no longer interesting nor exiciting.

Also this is just a goverment poistions etc. switch that I have idea's to use with this.

The new multi-level govermetn const. might bring more attention back to the demogame.

The way I see it, this 'reform' would only serve to further complicate matters.

If I understand correctly, your goal is to increase citizen representation. Right now, leaders are required to follow the will of the people. Thus, they are the representitive of the people.

Additionally, polls are not the definite determining factor in discussion. Article J of the current constitution states, "Elected officials must plan and act according to the will of the people." The Will of the People is offically defined and determined through both the use of polls and discussion. Therfore, if a clear majority of the people post their opinions in a single discussion, a leader may act without polling.

@strider:
why do you post 2 threads for almost the same discussion? this doest help it getting more interesting, it will drive people away from constitutional discussions again

another point is: we did not loose any people in term 3+4 of DG1. we gained a lot of people. and that was BECAUSE our rules worked so good. we lost most people before term3 because the rules were like you propose them.
your rulechange (like in the other discussion of you lately) always propose a leader can go forth with his department without asking citizenry. he doesnt have to poll mayor issues etc. he only has to poll if he is requested so.
[exageration]
well, if im still here when your rules shall be implemented, i will request a poll on EVERY SINGLE issue i can promise you >-)
[/exageration]

but of course, you are free to propose a change in the laws according to our laws. i doubt you will gain the support of the mayority though.

i believe if the leaders would work like in DG1 and workout PLANS rather than endlessly discuss a bag of nothing and vagueness, the DG2 could work like DG1.

btw:
which of your polls didnt pass quorum? or is it just because you lost a poll against donsigs proposal?

btw2:
its funny some polls even if posted as quickies get over the big quorum in 24h

Originally posted by Octavian X
The way I see it, this 'reform' would only serve to further complicate matters.

If I understand correctly, your goal is to increase citizen representation. Right now, leaders are required to follow the will of the people. Thus, they are the representitive of the people.

Additionally, polls are not the definite determining factor in discussion. Article J of the current constitution states, "Elected officials must plan and act according to the will of the people." The Will of the People is offically defined and determined through both the use of polls and discussion. Therfore, if a clear majority of the people post their opinions in a single discussion, a leader may act without polling.

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Yes.... Exactly.... The clear majority of people is determined by polls & discussions. Everyone I've seen post against this has a worst excuse then I have when I forget my homework. It's going to complicate matters? I'm 13 and I can understand the entire thing!

Also if I was just to post a discussion.... Gues what I'll get? A F*cking PI, because it is not within the Citizens Right of Free Speech. If the citizens want people who will listen to them then they should elect the person. Otherwise they make a mistake electing them.

I have ALWAYS believe that it is the leaders job to listen to the citizenry. It is part of the job. We don't need to slow the game down to make sure a leader does their job. If they don't think they are doing thier job correctly then impeach them.... It's their for that purpose.

We are making rules that are un-needed, because we have other rules preventing something that would activate the rule.

Originally posted by disorganizer
@strider:
why do you post 2 threads for almost the same discussion? this doest help it getting more interesting, it will drive people away from constitutional discussions again

another point is: we did not loose any people in term 3+4 of DG1. we gained a lot of people. and that was BECAUSE our rules worked so good. we lost most people before term3 because the rules were like you propose them.
your rulechange (like in the other discussion of you lately) always propose a leader can go forth with his department without asking citizenry. he doesnt have to poll mayor issues etc. he only has to poll if he is requested so.
[exageration]
well, if im still here when your rules shall be implemented, i will request a poll on EVERY SINGLE issue i can promise you >-)
[/exageration]

but of course, you are free to propose a change in the laws according to our laws. i doubt you will gain the support of the mayority though.

i believe if the leaders would work like in DG1 and workout PLANS rather than endlessly discuss a bag of nothing and vagueness, the DG2 could work like DG1.

btw:
which of your polls didnt pass quorum? or is it just because you lost a poll against donsigs proposal?

btw2:
its funny some polls even if posted as quickies get over the big quorum in 24h

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Dis... Where where have you seen another thread by me that shows a const. reforment plan? The other one was a continued of the chat discussion.

No.... It would work the same if we don't enforce the rules as much as we are doing this game. I am doing the exact same thing I have always done yet this game I'mbeing threatened with PI's.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm sick & tired of are screwed up const. and if it doesn't geet fixed soon we will have one lesss citizen in the demogame.

@strider: i meant the quorum and the other one.
which pi's?

Originally posted by disorganizer
@strider: i meant the quorum and the other one.
which pi's?

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Their saying my style of running the Science Department is un-const.

I post multiply info polls(or get donsig to) and use the results of those polls & any discussions that I know of to tally my results. This way just because somebody didn't know about a poll or was gone, but expressed their opionion else where. The still get a chance to have the process put through.

Description of each office:

Congress: In charge of passing constitutional rules/laws. Head of each section of the goverment makes up the congress.

Council: The normal science, military, trade etc. leader with one exception the Citizens Department

New Council Department Idea!

The Polling Department. In charge of posting citizen, information, council etc. polls relying th goverment. (IE: A leader can ask the polling department to post a poll for him/her. They just list the options and give a link to the discussions.) Also in charge of making sure differant polls are posted.

My reason for proposing this:

1) Speed the game up the game hopefully not to much, but enough to get some interest into it.

2) Laws are easier to pass and everyone gets represented inside of the congress. (If we make it 4/5 congress members have to agree on an amendment it makes sure everyone's views are heard correctly)

3) The multi-level goverment system my bring some interest back into the game.

Another New Idea (Thanks Fionn!)

The VP is incharge of the senate. That's it that's all folks

Well, strider, sorry to say but it seems like you are just whining this whole time. I agree that there are problems in the demogame, but you are just trying to do it all your own. And you aren't being very modest about yourself this whole time either. Maybe you could just tone it down a little and gain support instead of trying to do it all your self. I'd be glad to help you with your reformation 'crusade'. This just isn't the right way to go about it.

hes not alone in the idea. It needs some reform. some people out ther just dont like the ideas Strider has put out. But with debate, blood, sweat and tears we can hammer out the problems and come up with solutions to the problem

Originally posted by Plexus
Well, strider, sorry to say but it seems like you are just whining this whole time. I agree that there are problems in the demogame, but you are just trying to do it all your own. And you aren't being very modest about yourself this whole time either. Maybe you could just tone it down a little and gain support instead of trying to do it all your self. I'd be glad to help you with your reformation 'crusade'. This just isn't the right way to go about it.

Click to expand...

I am trying to do it myself because everyone else seems bent to destroy me and my career. I have no choice but to do it myself.

Fionn: Thanks.... Also can you post the one thing we were discussing in the chat?

oh sure make me DO the work i see how it is.....slacker Ill get it up sometime tonight

You also need to show how your revision will be better. What is it fixing? What will happen differently? What problems can come from the changes that would have to be watched for? An idea is fine but a plan is infinitely better.

I must confess up front that I have not read this entire thread but at first glance Strider's idea of a Polling Department seems to warrant more discussion. Such a department may or may not be workable but perhaps we shouldn't dismiss the idea so fast.

I would dismiss the idea of the Polling Department quickly. Strider says the game is moving too slowly for him, but he doesn't seem to have the time to learn how to do screenshots or do polls. This is just a backdoor for him. Poll writing is a skill that a Leader needs to have. He just wants someone else to do the work for him while he collects the glory. If he doesn't want to take the time to learn how to write polls, then let him spend his gold to pay some one who can. Then he can put his name on it and repost it as official for his Department.
I'm sorry the game is so slow Strider, but maybe we're slowing it down so people like you can learn how to play.