Gotm #24 - Spoiler

I have never played a game like this before, but I like it! Production is great, and money keeps rolling in so that I can PRB (partial rush buy) caravans and units as much as I like.

Here is my log to 1 ad:

4000 bc Kyoto founded.
3950 bc build road.
3750 bc Osaka founded.
3600 bc Discover Alphabet. Research currency. Warrior leave Kyoto and head to the east.
3300 bc Warrior is going north east.
3200 bc Osaka builds settler.
3100 bc Discover Currency. Research Map making (perhaps a little late with this slow science). Edo founded two squares left of Osaka. Kyoto builds settler.
2750 bc Satsuma founded.
2450 bc Discover Map-making. Research Code of laws.
2400 bc Osaka builds settler. Start with lighthouse! (Osaka is only size 2)
2350 bc Edo build settler.
2200 bc Kyoto builds Marketplace. Kagoshima founded.
2000 bc Barbarian archer land near Osaka.
1950 bc Archer die, and phalanx become veteran.
1900 bc When I press f8, I see Berlin as a top 5 city (barbarian city).
1850 bc Discover Code of laws. Research Trade.
1700 bc Kyoto builds settler and start with Colussus. It's time to irrigate this land.
1650 bc Nara founded. (settler from Satsuma)
1550 bc Looking at the black squares, I see a big island or continent near Kagoshima. Trieme is carrying a settler, but I don't dare to take a chance to get to this island, so I go east instead to the explored areas. Warrior hasn't found any civs so it looks like I am alone on this continent.
1300 bc Discover Trade! Research Masonry. Nagoya founded (two whales!) Osaka change wonder to Marko Polo's Embassy.
1200 bc Izumo founded (two whales!)
1050 bc Barbarians near Nagoya (pretty far away though). I have finally found another civilization. Warrior is beside Bombay. I make peace with Gandhi and exchange Trade for Writing.
975 bc Osaka builds Marko Polo's Embassy. I change maps with everyone except the hostile Indians. So now I have 15 discoveries and 8 cities.
850 bc Satsuma defend against barbarian horsemen. Indians demand gold, I refuse. They declare war.
825 bc Indians kill my warrior. My horsemen attack barbarian diplomat. Shall we declare war against the barbarians? the foreign minister asks!!! Yes, and I get 100 gold. I buy the barbarian city Berlin for 208 gold. It has 4 archers. The german city Leipzig is next.
800 bc Peace treaty with the Indians.
775 bc German give me 25 gold.
750 bc Germans give me 25 gold.
725 bc Germans demand that my troops withdraw. I refuse and they declare war. I capture Leipzig. German civilization destroyed! Reputation is honorable.
675 bc Kyoto builds Hanging gardens! Indians agree to an alliance after I give them alot of gifts.
-------------------------------------

Somewhere here I discover Philosophy. And get an extra discovery Seafaring. So I research Construction.

------------------------------------

600 bc Capture barbarian leader. Get 100 gold. Silk caravan from Izumo (with 2 whales) arrives in Delhi. I get 192 gold!
525 bc Kyoto builds Colussus!
425 bc Edo builds Pyramids!
350 bc Found two new cities.
300 bc Indians gift 100 gold.
275 bc Found new city.
250 bc Indian government is now republic.
200 bc Cardiff builds Lighthouse (Celts.)
75 bc Discover Engineering. Research University.
25 bc Gold caravan arrives in Carthage from Kyoto. Get 432 gold.
1 ad Discover University. Research Astronomy. Salt caravan arrives in Carthage from Kyoto. Get 450 gold. Get 120 gold for an undemanded caravan from Edo.

So at 1 AD I have 4 wonders (and KRC next turn), 13 cities, 25 discoveries, 10 settlers, 8 phalanx, 4 archers, 1 horsemen, 4 triems, 2 diplomats and 1 caravan (2 in prod).

Originally posted by el_kalkylus
When I press f8, I see Berlin as a top 5 city (barbarian city).

Click to expand...

My Barabarians also captured Berlin. I bought it as he did.
This map seemed easier than GotM 18 ( i didn't finish that 1), finished this in 1754. <edit>GotM18 was also a much bigger map which makes a big difference</edit>
The AI's seem to have been hemmed in, just my opinion, will see what others think as they progress

I chose early conquest.
Teotihuacan (last foreign city) taken in x40.
Game over.

(x = cubicroot of my age )

I just looked through some savegames from gotm 18, and I realized my tactics so far hasn't been effective at all in comparison to other players. Here are some things I will think about when I continue my game.

1. I need to build a trieme-fleet and concentrate more on trading, which means I should have built Lighthouse when I had the chance. It's a long way to capture the lighthouse now. I should build Magellan's expedition (which is gonna stop the trading for a bit).

2. Starlifter put food caravans in the best cities in gotm 18, so they grew fast. I didn't think about this. Still, 4 food routes is 200 production.

3. I didn't actually know you could earn money from Michelangelos chapel or Bach's Cathedral, so I have to build these too.

4. In the early years I concentrated mostly on improving the terrain between 5-6 of my cities, so I didn't have the chance to build many new ones. I need to do that now, but I get bored fast from micromanagement. Maybe I'll settle for 30-40 cities or so and try to improve them.

I have no idea how to do this in an effective way. I guess I have already lost about 20-50 turns in science in comparison to other players because of my poor preparation.

So I begin from where I ended at 1 ad, and let my cities produce alot of triemes, because it's a long way to each civilization.

20 ad - Osaka completes KRC.
40 ad - Chinese completes GW.
60 ad - Discover Astronomy, research Navigation. Celts discover Banking. Gift Celts 3 discoveries and get Banking.
100 ad - Get 312 gold for a delivery in Carthage.

200 ad - Get about 580 gold total for two deliveries in Carthagian continent. I have set up almost enough triemes to get to the Carthagians in one turn.

220 ad - Discover Navigation. Research Medicine. Get about 600 gold total for two deliveries in Indian continent.
260 ad - Discover Medicine. Research Sanitation.
280 ad - Kyoto is now size 12 after four food caravans. Every day I am out of cash.
320 ad - Kyoto completes Coopernicus observation. I get about 1300 gold for 3 deliveries.
340 ad - Discover Sanitation. Research Invention. Get 1080 gold total for two silk caravans when they arrive in Kells.
360 ad - Discover Invention. Research Monotheism. Get about 900 gold total for two caravans.
400 ad - Osaka completes Magellan's expedition. I get 597 gold for a gem-caravan. And I was stupid enough to use a silk caravan from a size 2 city without going to Kyoto first. I just noticed it so it has to go back ALL the way back to Kyoto! It's worth too much money and science to go to waste. This makes me lose at least one turn in science.

420 ad - Chinese completes Shakespear's Theatre. I have never had this much money in any of my games at this age, 3000 gold and 22 active caravans!

440 ad - Discover Chemistry. Research Economics. Caravel capture barbarian leader, 100 gold. Another 588 gold from a gem-caravan.

460 ad - Get 616 gold from gem-caravan. I buy Michelangelos chapel for 1100 gold.
480 ad - Discover Economics. Research Gunpowder. Indians discover Feudalism. Satsuma completes Michelangelo's Chapel. Kyoto is size 17. This turn I spent about 1200 more gold. I have 1800 gold left.

500 ad - Osaka completes Leonardo's Workshop. Get 540 gold for Silver caravan. 653 gold for silk caravan.
520 ad - Discover Gunpowder. Research Explosives. Get 672 + 672 gold for two deliveries. This is perfect. Every civs except the Aztecs are researching different undiscovered techs. I just have to wait for them, if I have the patience.

540 ad - Discover Explosives. Research Metallurgy. Barbarian caravel destroy one of my caravels. Get 556 + 670 gold for two deliveries (at completely different places). Kyoto is size 20 and I have 5552 gold, but I have hardly anything other than caravans. My cities are undeveloped except Kyoto, and I have only 18 cities and 14 engineers (9 in prod).

560 ad - Discover Metallurgy. Research Theory of Gravity. Get 760 + 760 gold total from two caravan deliveries.
580 ad - Discover Theory of Gravity. Research Physics. The AI is too slow. Get 780 gold for one silk caravan. I buy Shanghai for 498 gold.

600 ad - Indians sneak attack and kill one of my caravels (only 14 left now). I buy their caravel for 240 gold. I buy Canton for 540 gold (it has Great Library)

620 ad - Discover Physics. Research Steam engine. Carthagians discover Bridge building. They want Gunpowder in exchange for it, but I rather not give it to them. I get 822 + 556 + 556 gold for three deliveries. Banglore wants salt, but I used about 4 salt caravan to the wonder Leonardo's Workshop!. I destroy the Indians new-built city Calcutta and agree to peace.

640 ad - Discover Steam engine. Research Democracy. Osaka completes AdamSTC. Get 847 gold from caravan. Kyoto is size 25 with one settler. One more food-route in Kyoto is acceptable I hope (since there is only 1 food increase/turn). There are only cloth, gold and beads in my supplies, but no city wants them except my own cities.

660 ad - I have 4 ironclads! I gave the Carthagians Gunpowder in exchange for Bridge building. What can they do with 5 cities? Perhaps it's time to pay them a visit. The Indians declare war when I demand tribute.

680 ad - Kyoto completes Isaac Newton's College. I buy Indian city Madras for 432 gold.
700 ad - Discover Democracy. Research Railroad. Set science to 0%. I have two caravans ready to deliver in two turns. Gotta prepare for Darwin's Voyage now too.

720 ad - Indians discover Chivalry. Japanese capture Banglore (with the help of ironclads) and get 216 gold + Chivalry! Japanese capture Beijing (it has GW and Shakespeare's Theatre.)
Chinese civilization destroyed

740 ad - Get 970 + 970 gold for two silk caravans! Aztecs steal chivalry and I declare war.
760 ad - Discover Railroad. Research Conscription. Capture Indian capital and get 532 gold for a trade route. I agree to peace. I think I will spare them for a time since their last city is not a coastal city and they can't get anywhere. Japanese capture the Aztec cities Tlatelolco and Tlaxcala.

780 ad - Get 476 gold for a caravan. (It's low after I got railroad)
800 ad - Discover Conscription. Research Fundamentalism. Even though I like to trade with the Carthagians and the Celts, it must end sometime. I get 476 gold for a caravan. Capture Texcoco. Two Ironclads are stationed outside Cardiff (capital), one is veteran. Celts declare war when I demand tribute. The Aztecs pay 150 gold for cease fire. My veteran Ironclad kill a musketeer in Cardiff.

820 ad - Celts and Carthagian sign a secret alliance against Japanese. Carthagians declare war. Osaka completes Darwin's Voyage. Discover Fundamentalism. Discover Industrialization. Research Corporation. My veteran ironclad kill an archer in Cardiff, and my other ironclad easily kill a phalanx, so I capture Cardiff with a knight. I also agree to peace.

840 ad - Carthagians kill a caravan next to one of their cities worth about 450 gold. Osaka completes Sun Tsu War Academy. I buy Teotihuacan for 791 gold.

860 ad - I get about 600 gold for 2 deliveries (one undemanded).

880 ad - Carthagians discover Steam Engine and give it to the Celts. Japanese discover The Corporation. Research Genetic Engineering.

900 ad - Capture Tenochtitland (needed only 3 veteran knights). Aztec civilization destroyed
920 ad - Get about 1250 gold from two deliveries.
940 ad - Discover Genetic Engineering. Research Magnetism. 576 gold for salt caravan.
960 ad - Satsuma completes Cure for Cancer. Get 1020 gold from one delivery (silk).
980 ad - Discover Magnetism. Research Electricity. Cities celebrate. Get about 1650 gold for two deliveries.
1000 ad - Discover Electricity. Get 1032 gold for Silk delivery, 492 gold for hides and 984 gold for gems. I will spare the Carthagians and Celts for a little while because they give me so much gold.

At 1000 ad I have 14,000+ gold, 52 discoveries, 38 cities, 32 engineers and 19 wonders. I am not too good at trading or developing my empire if I compare to other players but for me, this is pretty good. I have done alot of errors though and I hope I can fix that in the next gotm.

Am I using the food caravan trick? I made Kyoto grow on purpose until it had 2 food increase/turn.

LordValuna Summary
Tax rate was 50%tax/50%sci/0%lux for most of game (except for last 2 turns and a couple buy accident at 80% lux)
1500 BC
Treasury 213gp
2 cities pop 180k
4 Tech- next is Cur
130 gp
2 Settlers, 4 Infantry
Improvements Cost 0 , Income - 4 gp, Science 2b Discoveries 20 turns
no contact but have main island mapped out and am alone on island
Colossus has 8 turns to being built
High Council- Mil -Build barracks (not a chance bud)
Sci-build tech improvements (does Colossus count?)
Trade-research Cur (am doing right now)
For-go explore (I need to build some boats first)
Att-raise lux rate (not a chance bud)

1AD
Treasury 212gp
8 cities (1 is Berlin from the Barbarians, contact with Germans and Indians)
Pop 800k
Power is Supreme and our Reputation is Spotless. Ger&Ind are both enthusiastic
Tech 10, and researching Mat (for Catapults, most of my firepower this game)
Wonders-COL & PYR
3 Settlers, 12 infantry, 1 cavalry (horsemen), 1 trireme, 3 diplomats
Improvements Cost 2 (2 libraries) , Income - 42 GP, Science 14b Discoveries 9 turns
High council advice, MIL build weapon tech,
SCI build tech improv,
Trade build marketplaces
For build embassies,
ATT raise lux tax
1000 AD
Treasury 1316gp
India & Germany defeated. Army on way to China and a diplomat. Regrouping in Aztec area. First contact with Aztecs bought a City(A5Tlaxcala) on their SE coast and built a city on Island nearby as reserve(Nagasaki)
17 cities Pop 3,710,000
Power is Supreme and reputation is Questionable
Techs 24, and am researching Navigation for Mag Exp.
Wonders-COL & PYR, LIG (I1Delhi captured from IND), GL & COP
6 settlers, 18 infantry (war , pha, arc) 11 cavalry (hor, cha, ele, cru), 5 catapults, 5 triremes, 1 diplomat,7 caravans
High council advice, MIL Lets go bonk some heads! (OK we’re getting to it)
SCI We’re #1,
Trade build marketplaces,
For should repair our reputation (good luck),
ATT raise lux tax (Mil&Sci disagree still)
Improvements Cost 23 (incl 4 libraries) , Income - 102 gp, Science 49b Discoveries 14 turns
1500 AD
Treasury 2129gp
China defeated (capture Great Wall and 3 cities), hauling army from China to Aztec area via India and Germany. Have bought a second city from Aztec. Have explored small portion of Carthage area and bought 1 city and built a city on offshore island nearby as a reserve (this one didn’t prove that useful)
Also built a city on main island when settler was a sitting duck. City was captured by Barbarians, later the Celts would take this city then I would buy it back from them.
26 cities Pop 5,850,000
Power is Supreme and reputation is Poor
Techs 30, researching INV for Leo’s
Wonders- COL, PYR, GL, MC, CO, MAG, GW(captured) LIG(captured)
9 settlers, 32 infantry( war, pha, arc, leg), 23 Calvary (hor, cha, ele, cru), 9 catapult, 9 boats (tri or cara), 2 dips, 17 caravans, 3 explorers
High council advice, MIL Lets go bonk some heads! (OK we’re getting to it)
SCI We’re #1,
Trade build marketplaces,
For should repair our reputation (good luck),
ATT raise lux tax (Mil&Sci disagree still)
Improvements cost 37 (incl 6 libraries) Income 249 gp, Science 92b discoveries every 10 turns
1754
Treasury 4969 gp (stats after sacking Carthage)
Tax rate set to 20 Tax, 0% Science, 80% Luxury
Captured or bought balance of Aztecs, then shipped Army to Celt Area bought 2 minor cities then Kells then balance then took Capital , while buying the rest of Carthages cities and finally capturing “Carthage End Cit”(used spare diplomat to change the name)
51 cities 12,360,00
Power is Supreme and reputation is Atrocious
37 Techs , researching Metallurgy
Wonders- COL, PYR, GL, MC, CO, MAG, SUN, Leo’s, GW(captured) LIG(captured), MP & KRC both captured in Carthage , Oracle & HG (captured from Aztec)
Improvements cost 66 (incl 6 libraries) Income 385 gp, Science 2b discoveries every 611 turns
6 settlers 76 muskets, 22 dragoons (all green thanks to LEO’s), 14 Catapult, 15 Caravals, 4 Dips, 11 caravans, 3 explorers
Casulties 1 settler, 1 warrior, 2 muskets, 1 chariot, 2 dragoons, 14 Catapults 2 caravans, 1 explorer
High council advice, MIL No complaints
SCI We’re #1,
Trade build marketplaces,
For should repair our reputation (good luck),
ATT the people rejoice
the end

I did it!!!! I actually won at Deity level!!! [dance] It's the first time in years, if ever, some I'm very pleased with myself!!!!!!

My strategy? Well, to begin with it was survival. Just make it to 2020 reasonably unscathed. Nicely spaced towns on the starting island connected by roads. Lots of vans and a ferry port to India and Germany. I was very behind on science.

Whilst exploring I picked up a Carthagian bargain surrounded by forrest. The Carthagian threw units at it for centuries but didn't get anywhere. As I gained money from trade I started picking up more towns and science with the help of my diplomats.

When I built Marco's I discovered the Chinese were very weak, so I sent a few dips up there to pick up more bargains.

Much later, I realised I was catching up on science. I managed to get hold of Mobile Warfare. I amassed a small army, and the Carthagians were soon gone! Howitzers followed and alliances between the last 3 civs dissolved. The Germans helped me with the Indians by declaring war on them, and soon India and Germany were gone. A few loaded transports later, and the Aztecs where gone too!

Civ2 is back on my machine!A computer without civ is a barren,cold place

Played till 1ad.Going good.Darn ais have switched to despo here and there.I just don't understand.

Started waring with green elephants.Taking heavy losses but progressing steadily.Diplomats taking up the slack.

3 wonders
Pyramids
Marco's
Gardens(captured)

27 cities
22 techs(only Poly is white )

forces:
6 settler
1 warrior
9 phalanx
1 legion
18 horsemen
20 elephant
14 trireme
5 diplomat

Not 1 caravan built

Here is the rest of my log:

1020 ad - Discover Electronics. Research Refridgeration. Buy the rest of Hoover Dam for 1200 gold.
1040 ad - Carthagians discover Railroad. Osaka builds Hoover Dam.
1060 ad - Discover Refridgeration. Research Leadership. Get about 1700 gold for three deliveries. The Carthagians are almost ready with Eiffel tower, so I buy it for 1000 gold in Kyoto. It's time to irrigate and buy supermarkets!

1080 ad - Discover Leadership. Research Communism. Kyoto completes Eiffel tower. I get about 1700 gold for four deliveries.
1100 ad - Discover Communism. Research Espionage. I get about 1900 gold from three deliveries.
1120 ad - Discover Espionage. Research Steel. I get about 2000 gold from deliveries, and after I have bought all I need for this turn, I have over 20,000 gold for the first time.
1140 ad - Carthagians sneak attack and kill one spy. Discover Steel. Research Theology. I let the Celts declare war on Carthagians for 1050, just for the fun of it (they had secret alliance).

1160 ad - Discover Theology. Research Tactics. Kyoto buys J.S.Bach's Cathedral for 1200 gold. I get 860 + 492 + 492 gold for three deliveries. I buy Carthagian coastal city for 1064 gold and make peace with the Carthagians + give them Industrialization. Maybe this will make their cities demand oil!

1180 ad - Barbarians suddenly pop up and kill one engineer. Discover Tactics. Research Machine tools. Kyoto completes J.S. Bach's Cathedral. As usual I get about 1900 - 2000 gold for three deliveries.

1200 ad - Discover Machine tools. Research Miniaturization. Get about 2500 gold for three deliveries.
1220 ad - Discover Miniaturization. Research Refining. Deliveries give me about 2100 gold.
1240 ad - Discover Refining. Research Combusion. Three deliveries gives me around 2100 gold.
1260 ad - Discover Combusion. Research Automobile. A musketeer is in the way for my freight so I have to wait until next turn to deliver some of the freights. I have 26,745 gold left after this turn.

1280 ad - Every city that was about to deliver has changed their demands. But I got to deliver one demanded for 600 gold at least, so next turn I will discover a new discovery. I think the cities changed their demands because I connected a road between my new-conquered coastal city and their cities.

1300 ad - Discover Automobile. Research Mass Production. I had to make deliveries to my own cities this time.

1320 ad - Discover Mass Production. Research Computers. Get gold from freights.
1340 ad - Discover Computers. Research Atomic theory. I don't know what tech I need to get uranium. I won't research flight yet, because that will cancel the effect of colussus. I get 1602 gold for silk freight! (Kyoto now has superhighway). I should have researched Automobile earlier. I get 984 gold for dye freight. With this I buy Seti Program for 2064 gold.

1360 ad - Teotihuacan builds SETI program. Discover Atomic theory. Research Nuclear Fission. Gem freight gives 1340 gold. I keep pumping oil to Madras. This time for 724 + 724 gold.

1380 ad - Carthage (Carthagians) grants Women's suffrage. Celtic government escapes to Kell (Celts). Japanese discover Nuclear Fission. Research Recycling. Get 1340 + 724 gold.

1400 ad - Discover Recycling. Research Flight. 1340 + 1340 gold for gems.
1420 ad - Discover Flight. Research Radio. The money from freights are now halved because flight cancelled the effect of Colussus.

1440 ad - Discover Radio. Research Advanced Flight. I am running out of supplies and demands. I spend about 5000 gold in this turn on airports and such.

1460 ad - Kyoto builds United Nations. Discover Advanced Flight. Research Rocketry. I declare war against the Carthagians and give the Celts ALOT of gifts. THen I take the Carthagians last coastal city (which they took from the Celts before).

1480 ad - Discover Rocketry, research Space Flight. I don't need to set my freights in enemy cities anymore, so I might as well destroy everyone. Time to prepare.

1500 ad - Discover Space Flight, research Plastics. Buy Apollo Program for 2364 gold and Manhattan's project for 2360 gold. Money keeps rolling in (and science).

1510 ad - Canton bulids Apollo Program. Food 3 builds Manhattan Project. Discover Plastics. Research Nuclear Power. I forgot to buy anything 1500 ad, so I am a little behind production than I shoud've been. Carthagians declare war when I insult them and I lose a destroyer.

1520 ad - Discover Nuclear Power, research The Laser. I capture Kell and buy Carmarthen. Celts destroyed. Utica captured. I don't see how the Indians can be useful in a game like this, so I buy their last city. At least they have been useful in producing engineers that I could buy. Indian civilization destroyed. First Uranium supply in Osaka!

1530 ad - Carthagians steal Plastics. Oh no, I forgot to change science from 0%!!! otherwise I would have discovered The Laser. Capture Carthage.

1540 ad - Discover The Laser. Research Superconductor. I got 1604 gold for the Uranium in Shanghai. Capture Malaca so they only have one small city left (12 bombers were too much for them).
1550 ad - Discover SuperConductor. Research Fussion Power.
1560 ad - Discover Fussion Power. Research Future Technology. Spent about 9500 gold.
1570 ad - Discover Future Technology. Research Future Technology 2. Launch space ship! Estimated arrival 1580 ad. Spaceship is built out of 21 structurals, 10 components, 3 modules.

1571 ad - Discover Future Technology 2. Research FT3. I have 50 cities. Spice is my great income. When the spice reach Shanghai, I always get at least 1200 gold per delivery, and strangely Shangai always demands spice (just like the Celts always demanded silk before).

1572 ad - Discover FT3. Research FT4.
1573 ad - Discover FT4. Research FT5.
1574 ad - Discover FT5. Research FT6. Nanking supplies Uranium. Tenochtitland did too last turn without me knowing so until I traded with wine, so it disappeared.

1575 ad - Discover FT6. Research Environmentalism. Shanghai doesn't demand spice anymore - I made about 5000 gold this turn.
1576 ad - Discover Environmentalism. Research FT6. Uranium Nanking-Kyoto gives 1888 gold! (best so far).
1577 ad - Discover FT7. Research FT8.
1578 ad - Discover FT8. Research FT9. I build more cities now, because I won't have to take care of them in the future.

1579 ad - Discover FT9. Research FT10. Uranium Shanghai-Kyoto gives 1958 gold! I deliver all freights in this turn and must have gotten 20,000 gold.
1580 ad - 10,000 Japanese arrive in Alpha Centauri!

Originally posted by Smash

forces:
6 settler
1 warrior
9 phalanx
1 legion
18 horsemen
20 elephant
14 trireme
5 diplomat

Not 1 caravan built

Click to expand...

That is one huge army! Do you get more money from other civs by diplomacy when you have such a big army?

no not really.Size doesn't matter

I got 100 out of one civ but thats it.Naturally this has required that examples be set.The ai isn't learning by example

Originally posted by el_kalkylus

That is one huge army!

Click to expand...

Originally posted by Smash
27 cities
22 techs(only Poly is white )

Click to expand...

I'm even more impressed by your number of cities (than your huge army); I was happy with 8 (1 captured) as it made my power Supreme.
I tried to replay with a goal just to get more cities (and to build the same wonders) and didnt do much better.
Two questions come to mind:
Did you build a city early with your second (non)settler?
Were you rush buying your settlers?
In any case very impressive

Yes and yes.A 2nd settler always builds ASAP in my games.Cept OCC of course.

Everything is rushed when possible.If I had wanted ,I probably could have had double the cities but I went for conquest and just built elephants.

Played till 1AD now.

I also saw that the ai's prefer despotism. Does anyone know why? When I built Marco Polo, 4 ais were in despotism, one in monarchy and one was republic. Why didn't they stick with Communism?

I played ICS for a while until I had 30-40 cities and then I found that the nearby continents were inhabited. I stopped building settlers for a while and built an army instead and destroyed some Carthagian and German cities that were in the way for my expansion. The Germans have two cities left while the Carthagians are eliminated. Now I'm back on track building settlers again!

Since cities wont grow fast I will build many cities instead to compensate for that. I plan to build 255 cities before I finish and I want to finish before 1000AD. That should clearly be doable. I want to research up to Genetic Engineering so that I can build 22 wonders if i recall correctly. Cities will get a market and maybe a bank and a harbor, nothing more. Since I will have so many cities it will be easy to build wonders with caravans.

I need to deliver some caravans to get those techs I want and I have chosen the Chinese as my to be trading partner. I have delivered some caravans to Indian cities but they are to close for high enough payoffs after navigation/invention and railroad.

Next target is to get rid of all civs but the chinese and to deliver many caravans to the Chinese while expanding on the other continents.

My 1AD statistics:

54 cities, 2.15 million people.

Units:
21 Settlers
03 Warriors
05 Phalanx
27 Pikemen
03 Horsemen
13 Crusaders
16 Trireme
01 Diplomat
05 Caravan

Losses:
2 Phalanx, 1 Elephant, 4 Crusaders, 1 Trireme, 1 Diplomat.
2 cities were destroyed by Barbarians.
1 city was captured by the Carthagians and later destroyed by me.

Science:
27b/turn, discoveries 29 turns (20% science rate).
26 techs discovered

Money:
Income 472g/turn (327 from tithes), Cost 1g/turn.

Wonders:
Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Wall, Sun Tzu's, Marco Polo, Michelangelo, JS Bach.

Those 327g per turn from tithes really makes a big difference. I figured it would be a good idea to build many cities just to get that huge income.

When I have 100 cities I will get 600g!
250 cities -> 1500g!!
250 cities with markets -> 2250g!!!!

I had to hand over 250$ to the Americans in gotm23, so I started PRBing away the treasury right from the start. Here is my log up to 625 BC


Fundamental game

Normal Map (80x50)
Restless Tribes
Deity Level
7 Civilizations
No Restarts
Fundamentalism throughout all game
AI starts in monarchy/communism and may change
no huts
2 Settlers
bronze

4000 2nd settler builds road
3950 1st settler founds Kyoto
3550 t/l/s at 2/0/8 splits 3 (and 4!) arrows into 2$ and 1 beaker
PRB Kyoto settler 16->20
3450 invent alphabet, research writing
3250 Kyoto builds settler
3150 PRB Kyoto settler 5->10
3050 Kyoto settler founds Osaka, 1$ and no beaker
PRB Kyoto settler 16->20
2900 both Kyoto and Osaka beaker add into research
PRB Osaka settler 6->10
2750 Kyoto builds settler
invent writing, research code of law
2650 t/l/s at 2/0/8 splits 5(6) arrows into 3$ and 1(2) beaker(s)
PRB Kyoto diplomat 5->10
2550 PRB Kyoto diplomat 16->20
2400 Osaka builds settler
Kyoto builds diplomat
2300 PRB Osaka diplomat 8->10
2250 PRB Osaka diplomat 15->20
2150 Osaka builds diplomat
2100 PRB Osaka settler 5->10
2050 PRB Osaka settler 15->20
1900 invent code of law, research literacy
Kyoto builds diplomat
Osaka settler founds Edo
1850 Osaka builds settler, starts Colossus
most happy according to Herodot : 6.Japanese
1800 PRB Kyoto settler 6->10
1750 PRB Kyoto settler 14->20
1700 Kyoto settler founds Satsuma
PRB Kyoto settler 24->30
1650 (finally) assign t/l/s at 7/0/3 (as this gets 1$ more)
1600 PRB Satsuma settler 4->10
1550 Kyoto builds settler
1500 PRB Satsuma settler 14->20

Japanese empire : 4 cities, population 2x2+2x1=80,000 (6th)
manufacturing 12 megatons (1st), productivity 70% (1st)
(net) income 7$, 4 beakers -> 10 rounds, 4 advances
family size 10.0 (1st), military service 0 years (7th)

1400 PRB Kyoto settler 9->10
PRB Satsuma settler 26->30
1350 invent literacy, research currency
Osaka changes from Colossus to Great Library
Germans start Pyramids
1200 Satsuma builds settler
1100 Edo builds barracks
PRB Satsuma settler 6->10
Germans abandon Pyramids
1050 PRB Satsuma settler 13->20
1000 PRB Satsuma settler 23->30
Chinese start Pyramids
b950 Kyoto builds settlers
Satsuma settler founds Kagoshima
Kyoto settler founds Nara
b925 Edo builds vet phalanx (1st of many)
PRB Kyoto settler 3->10
b900 Satsuma builds settlers
PRB Kyoto settler 13->20
b875 assign t/l/s at 2/0/8 (exchange 3$ for 1 beaker)
PRB Satsuma settler 3->10
b850 invent currency, research trade
PRB Satsuma settler 13->20
b825 PRB Satsuma settler 23->30
b800 rehome Kyoto settler to Edo
b775 Japan is a (non-isolated) island
b750 Kyoto builds settler
rehome Satsuma settler to Nara
b725 Satsuma builds settler
Germans start Pyramids
b700 Nara builds diplomat
PRB Satsuma settler 3->10
Aztecs start Pyramids
b675 PRB Satsuma settler 13->20
PRB Kyoto `caravan' 9->10
b650 Kagoshima builds settler
invent trade, research mapmaking
Osaka changes from Great Library to Marco Polo
assign t/l/s at 7/0/3
PRB Satsuma settler 23->30
PRB Nara caravan 8->10
b625 Osaka builds Marco Polo
power is supreme, have 7 advances vs. 7 (Chinese), 10 or 11
Indians are in monarchy, all others in despotism (no communists!)
lead in most, Celts 12 years military service (7th with 1 year)
Carthaginians 9$ income per capita (4th with 6$, but 1st with 15$ gnp)
Chinese have ceremonial burial, masonry, pottery and warrior code
neutral Chinese have 2 spears, they require literacy, deny
ask for peace treaty, they deny and end audience
PRB Nara caravan 14->20
PRB Kyoto caravan 16->20
Chinese discover mapmaking -> have 8 advances !

checked later : giving literacy would NOT prevent the Chinese trading 3 of
their 4 extra advances, and then all other civilizations exchange maps
after making peace, trading advances and then giving 1 or 2 extra

I just got started, and I noticed that the Civ Score (F9) page shows SCENARIO, and that "tech hiding" is OFF. That really changed my early tech plan, and would have been nice to know before starting. Could we post that on the GOTM24 thread for those who have not started yet?

El kalkylus and Smash:

I think that only cities and forces on their continent counts when they calculate if they are going to be afraid of you. All civs were sour in my game at first but when I landed several crooks on the German/Indian continent and took some German cities, the Indians started to pay tribute. Same thing with Carthagians/Celts.

I often build Marco Polo early in my games and I see a pattern in this. When the map is a pangea type of map they will always pay but when they are far away on islands I haven't visited they demand tribute from me even if I am stronger.

So, this game is progressing rather slowly now since I do little more than expand and expand and micromanage. I have played till 300AD and here is a summary:

112 cities, 4.43 million people.

Units:
48 Settlers (74 in production)
01 Legion
42 Musketeers
04 Horsemen
21 Crusaders
35 Trireme
07 Diplomat
27 Caravan

Casualties:
2 Phalanx, 1 Elephant, 9 Crusaders, 1 Trireme, 1 Diplomat

Science:
50% science rate, 123b/turn, discoveries 8 turns.
33 techs discovered.

Money:
Tax rate 30%, income 871g/turn (690 in tithes). Cost 8g/turn
Treasury: 1804g

Wonders:
Pyr, HG, Col (captured), LH, GW, STWA, MPE, MC, LW, JSB.

Enemies:
Chinese, 5 cities
Aztecs, 3 cities (no capital)
Indians, 1 city
Celts, Carthagians and Germans eliminated.

Originally posted by cliff
El kalkylus and Smash:

I think that only cities and forces on their continent counts when they calculate if they are going to be afraid of you. All civs were sour in my game at first but when I landed several crooks on the German/Indian continent and took some German cities, the Indians started to pay tribute. Same thing with Carthagians/Celts.

Click to expand...

I think you may be right. In my game, the germans started paying tribute after I bought the barbarian city with 3 archers. The other civs never payed tribute when I crushed them with ironclads.

Here is my log up to 1 AD. In order to get the extra advances I thought necessary to be able to trade with other civilizations I focussed on getting the Great Library. In retrospect I should rather have focussed on the Colossus, to be built in my largest city Osaka, and then rehome all caravans there and start sending them out to foreign cities on other continents where they are demanded. Actually, I think it is a bug of the game design that the 50%-penalty on science in fundamentalism does not apply for caravans as well. PRBing everything became quite a routine, at some point I had enough money to PRB simply everything into full rows, so at the end of every turn I pressed F1 and went through all cities. I only stopped doing so much later when I obtained feudalism (through the Great Library), although at that point the arriving caravans would have provided the means to continue (and even completely IPRB everything). Maybe it should not be allowed to switch production after money has been spent (another bug?).


b600 PRB Kyoto caravan 23->30
. PRB Nara caravan 24->30
. PRB Kagoshima caravan 4->10
b575 rehome Satsuma settler to Nara
. PRB Kyoto caravan 33->40
. hostile Chinese require again literacy, deny, they declare war
. largest according to Bede : 1.Japanese, 4.Chinese
b550 Satsuma builds settler
. PRB Kagoshima caravan 16->20
b525 PRB Kagoshima caravan 26->30
. PRB Satsuma caravan 3->10
b500 PRB Edo vet phalanx 9->10
. PRB Satsuma caravan 13->20
b475 Nara builds salt caravan
. Osaka builds gems caravan and starts Colossus
. Kyoto builds copper caravan and starts Great Library
. PRB Satsuma caravan 23->30
. Chinese still require literacy and continue war
b450 PRB Satsuma caravan 33->40
. PRB Nara caravan 4->10
b425 PRB Nara caravan 14->20
b400 Kagoshima builds salt caravan
. PRB Nara caravan 24->30
. Chinese discover currency -> have 9 advances (still vs. 7)
. Chinese have almost finished Pyramids
b375 Satsuma builds gems caravan
. Germans have almost finished Pyramids
. Peking builds Pyramids, Aztecs change to Hanging Gardens
. Germans change to Great Library and must have 200+
b325 all caravans help build Great Library
b300 Kyoto builds Great Library, Germans abandon(!)
. invent mapmaking, research the republic
b275 Nara builds salt caravan
. PRB Kagoshima marketplace 20->40
. PRB Satsuma marketplace 12->40
. Germans start Colossus
. Aztecs submit monarchy
b250 barbarians capture K&ouml;nigsberg
b225 Nara settler founds Nagoya
. PRB Kyoto marketplace 12->40
. Chinese still require literacy and continue war
b175 Indians submit German mathematics
. Germans submit Indian ceremonial burial
b150 pay 50$ to Chinese for peace, trade pottery, masonry and warrior code
. for literacy, trade and writing, enthusiastic Chinese ends audience
. Osaka changes from Colossus to Hanging Gardens
. receptive Celts have 4 spears, trade polytheism, iron, mysticism and
. horseback riding for literacy, trade, monarchy and mathematics
. worshipful Celts require masonry, give it, exchange maps
. attitude -> enthusiastic, ask for tribute, ignored -> cordial
. uncooperative Aztecs have no spears, they require and get literacy
. make peace, trade construction for writing, gift iron, polytheism
. and mathematics, but now worshipful Aztecs do not exchange maps
. ask for tribute, ignored
. icy Germans have 2 spears, they require and get monarchy
. make peace, trade the republic and seafaring for mysticism and iron
. gift construction and polytheism, exchange maps, tribute ignored
. (Indians have the wheel and are at war with Celts)
. PRB Nagoya settler 6->10
. war between Celts and Indians has ended
b125 Celts and Indians declare war against each other
. research bridge building
. Celts require the republic, deny, ask for tribute, ignored
. neutral Indians have 3 spears, deny to cancel Celt peace treaty
. they require and get the republic, make peace, trade the wheel
. for mysticism, gift iron and trade, exchange maps, audience ends
. hostile Chinese get the republic, then gift seafaring, audience ends
. icy Carthaginians have 5 spears, deny to cancel Celt peace treaty
. they require and get the wheel, make peace, gift mathematics
. the republic and construction, exchange maps, tribute ignored
. Indians start Colossus, Indians abort Colossus (in Delhi?)
b100 caravan helps build Hanging Gardens
. PRB Nagoya settler 14->20
. Aztecs have almost finished Hanging Gardens
. Chinese start colossus
75BC Celts start Hanging Gardens
. Osaka builds Hanging Gardens
. Celts abort, Aztecs change to Colossus
. all attitudes are changed to hostile
. Edo settler founds Izumo
. assign t/l/s at 4/6/0
. Tenochtitlan builds Colossus
. Chinese and Germans abort
50BC general celebrations, assign t/l/s at 8/2/0
. PRB Izumo caravan 3->10
. PRB Nagoya settler 26->30
25BC Celts ask for audience, deny alliance against Carthaginians
. Kagoshima builds marketplace
. Satsuma builds marketplace
. PRB Izumo caravan 13->20
. Germans start Great Wall
. Celts and Carthaginians sign peace treaty
AD 1 Kyoto builds marketplace
. Nara builds trireme
. PRB Kagoshima caravan 4->10
. PRB Satsuma caravan 5->10
. PRB Izumo caravan 23->30
. Chinese are receptive, gift mysticism and iron to make them
. worshipful, exchange maps, ask for tribute, they declare war

Japanese empire : 8 cities, population 7+2x4+2x3+2x2+1=670,000 (1st)
. manufacturing 44 megatons (1st), productivity 70% (1st)
. net income 53=57-4$, 0 beakers -> 594 rounds, 22 advances
. family size 7.1 (1st), other civs have only 3-4 cities each

Originally posted by cliff
El kalkylus and Smash:

I think that only cities and forces on their continent counts when they calculate if they are going to be afraid of you. All civs were sour in my game at first but when I landed several crooks on the German/Indian continent and took some German cities, the Indians started to pay tribute. Same thing with Carthagians/Celts.

I often build Marco Polo early in my games and I see a pattern in this. When the map is a pangea type of map they will always pay but when they are far away on islands I haven't visited they demand tribute from me even if I am stronger.

Click to expand...

Ditto my experience in a previous GOTM (the one where you start on a perfect-OCC peninsula with two or three whales off of the southern continent, shared with only the Greeks, and all the rest are on the big middle continent?). I demanded tribute for something like a thousand years, was Supreme the whole time, and just pissed them off. Good for starting wars without lowering your own rep, though...