Smith's? or Copernicus'?

Well, it's my last day as Science Leader, so I thought I'd throw a zinger at ya. We are very close to completing the Great Wonder Copernicus' Observatory. Other nations are also closing in on this Wonder's completion, but I think we'll get it first thanks to the new mining operations around Memphis.

Copernicus' Observatory doubles the scientific research in the city where it is built. It costs 400 shields to produce. It adds 4 Culture points to the city every turn. It's also an Expansionist trigger.

On the other hand, we will be done researching Economics in 14 turns (more or less). We could switch to a Palace pre-build and then go for Smith's Trading Company at that time.

Smith's Trading Company pays the maintenance costs for all trade-based city improvements.
Harbors 1gpt
Marketplaces 1gpt
Banks 2gpt
Airports 2 gpt

Right now we have 7 Marketplaces and 5 Harbors.
We are currently building 5 Marketplaces, 1 Harbor, and 1 Bank. This Wonder costs 600 shields to produce. It adds 3 Culture points to the city every turn. It's also a Commercial trigger.

So the question to you is, would you rather see Copernicus' or Smith's built in Memphis? It looks like we can have either one. But which one do we really want?

Please post below with questions and comments. We don't have much time to decide.

Hard one.

2 questions- how many sheilds are currently stockpiled in Memphis, and what is the current scientific research in Memphis(i.e. how greatly will we take advantage of the Observatory)?

What about finishing Cop's in Memphis and starting a pre-build for Smith's in Gorina?

Bacon King,

Memphis is currently producing 19 beakers and has about 250 shields stockpiled.

thanks zorven.

zorven's idea for a prebuild in Gorina sounds pretty good.

zorven is correct, Bacon King. At the completion of the CO Wonder in 9 turns, Memphis will jump from producing 19 beakers to 38 beakers in Science. Of course that's at 3.7.0 for the commerce rate, so that could change. Culture in the area of Memphis would be increased by 4 Culture points a turn, which is pretty good.

Smith's on the other hand will automaticaaly save us 20gpt upon its completion. That figure will only grow as we build more trade-based city improvements. Culture will grow in Memphis by 3 Culture points per turn with Smith's.

Smith's would probably take an additional 12 turns to complete.

@zorven - If Free Artistry turns out to be the winner of the current Science Poll, then we will probably achieve that Tech in around 21 or so turns.

Gorina is now building a Marketplace which will be complete in two turns. Because of the Irrigation and Mining being done around Gorina, the production rate is going to jump to 18spt as we'll bring another mine on line. That means Shakespeare's Theater can be built in 23 turns or less. Less actually because Gorina's next growth will bring an additional mine online for an additional 3spt.

So we would have to use the Palace pre-build route and probably waste a couple of turns production when we switched to Shake's. This is fine by me, I wanted to build a University (FU) in Gorina, but Shake's will be just as good if not better.

If we increase the SciRate to 80%, we can learn Democracy in 5 turns and Economics in 8. That's 13 total turns for us to be able to swtich the CO to Smith's. It also means that Free Artistry will be learned in a shorter time (maybe 17-18 turns total), which means we wouldn't waste any shields in Gorina.

What do you guys think?

@Cyc,

Are you saying that Gorina should build Shakespeare's and Cop should be switched to Smith's?

No, I'm saying both are possible. The main reason I started this thread is to find out if the citizens of Fanatica would rather have the CO or the STC.

Well, if I had to pick between the two, I would pick Smith's. It affects every city and Cop's affects one city. The gpt savings from Smith's is worth much more than the affect Cop's has.

I belive we should build Cop in Memphis, and try a prebuild for smith's in another city

Well, I think I would go for Smith's too, for the same reason. I very rarely bother building the CO.

If we were to switch Gorina to a palace right now, and then switch to Smith's when we got Economics, then Gorina could finish STC in 27 turns. That's a long way away....

The Aztecs, the Russians, the Egyptians, and the Greeks all have Banking now. That's a lot of nations. There is a total of 13 cascadeable (new word?) Wonders being built as we speak. That's a lot of potential STC. I'm not sure we should take the risk. But Shake's could be a back up for us. I'm not sure. We might wind up getting screwed with that deal too, by waiting for STC for too long and losing Shake's.

I think we should stick with Copernicus in Memphis. It's a good place for a science wonder, it could use the culture sooner rather than later and I'd really like to keep this science wonder away from Germany, Persia, Russia and Greece. (Hey, is Babylon scientific, too?)

We should definately be pre-building a wonder in Gorina. I'd rather have Smith's over Shakespeare if we could only get one.

Is there another city we can prep up quickly for wonder building? We seem to have enough workers around to devote a large group to prepping a city...

Both your ideas are fine with me too, donsig.

Yes, the Babs are scientific and I think Aureus would be a good candidate for another Wonder builder. With some irrigation and some mining, it would pummp out quite a few shields.

Cyc,

When I checked, Germany, Babylon, Persia, and China have Banking. Of those, all are building Sun Tzu's and Babylon and China are also building Cop's. This means there are four other civs that could cascade to Smiths if they acquire Economics in time. If we stay on Cop's, we are run a serious risk that one of those four beats us to Economics and thus they will surely get Smith's if they get beat to Sun Tzu's.

I think we set our sights on Smiths. We can then set Gorina on Cop's (unlikely to get it) which can then switch to another wonder when available.

Yep! Yer right zorven. I was looking at the wrong list. (My notes are a mess) The nations I named are the ones that NEED Banking. Sheesh! Thanks for double checking that. I think I'll be quiet now and go for a walk - that's embarrassing.

Don't worry Cyc, it doesn't really matter which four, only that there are four

I would favor a palace pre-build in Gorina as well. Even if Wonder plans go awry, all would not be lost as we could still consider moving our Palace to Gorina. A more centralized location for our capital could help our Western cities. Of course, this is only a back up proposal if we cannot acquire both wonders.

There is something of an overconcentration of wonders in the late middle ages. If we keep up a fast tech pace, there are a whole bunch of them coming up soon.

A more general question, as to which two or three out of the next six wonders do we want most, might be a better poll question than just choosing between Copernicus and Smith.

Among the medievals wonders, I put Smith as most important to us. Among the others, Newton is a lot like Copernicus, Magellan is nice to have but we don't really NEED it, Bach and Shakespeare both improve happiness but happiness won't be a big issue once we have marketplaces. The chance for Sun Tzu and Leonardo has already gone by.

Prebuilds are a Good Thing for us at this point... timing is going to be everything for grabbing many of these wonders.

We do indeed need to do prebuild. If I had to choose between Cop and Smith, I would alwats go for Smith.

But where to put it?

Now Gorina has already been mentioned, but I think the time has come to use another city as well. Does anyone have any ideas for what another one of our wonder cities could be?

Palace prebuilds are needed. We will be able to prebuild both Shakespeare and Smith. We can get both of these if we STOP selling techs.