Copernicus obervatory bug

[Humungus]

Hello,

I wonder if there is a fix or a patch to remedy to the bug that the effect of the Copernicus Observatory (double the bulbs produces bay the city) never ends.
The manual says this advantage stops after the discovery of the Automobile.

If such a patch doesn't exist, could Tupy or Dark Panda tinker a little fix ?

Thanx so much by advance ;-)

Humungus

 

[Lord_Hill]

Nope, it doesn't become obsolete in any DOS version of Civ. I've never paid enough attention in CivWin, CivNet etc but I don't think any of them made any changes to core gameplay, just added (or sometimes took away) quality of life stuff.

 

[Civinator]

In Civ I the wonder Copernicus`Observatory is made obsolete by the tech Automobile. This stands in the German Civ I manual of the DOS version on page 121, in the German manual of CivNet on page 198 and in the book Sid Meier´s Civilization, or Rome on 640K a Day on page 289.

Edit: Humungus, here you find a list of patches for Civ 1: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...n-1-forum-important-links-information.683632/
I don´t know, if this problem is patched there.

When doing a search in the CFC Civ 1 forums, it is frequently posted, that the entry about the obsolesence of Copernicus in the manuals and in the book Rome on 640K a Day is wrong and that wonder by an error never becomes obsolete. You can read this per example in those linked posts:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/advances-chart-revisited.181540/#post-6485027
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/version-of-civ-1.673552/#post-16166339
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/version-of-civ-1.673552/#post-16166464

When the actual effects of that wonder differ in such a way from the descriptions in the manuals and the book, I think it is rectified to speak here from a bug and to ask for a patch to fix this.

 

[Humungus]

Thank you for all this links, Civinator !
If Copernicus is never obsolete, for the price of 300$, it's one of the most powerfull Wonder of the game (with trade roads, improvements, democracy, Colossus, ...). ... and certainly too much powerfull.
Maybe a little "fix" (few bytes to change, i suppose), would restore the balance !

 

[rahorvat]

Thank you for all this links, Civinator !
If Copernicus is never obsolete, for the price of 300$, it's one of the most powerfull Wonder of the game (with trade roads, improvements, democracy, Colossus, ...). ... and certainly too much powerfull.
Maybe a little "fix" (few bytes to change, i suppose), would restore the balance !

Hm, having worked much on Open Source Civ1 (OpenCiv1) made me really familiar with the original code.
The real problem is if you have to insert the bytes (code) to check for this occurrence it would be a problem as there is usually no space left in the assembly for such things.
Quick search of the code doesn't provide any kind of obsolescence for Copernicus (this is not 100% verified).

 

[tupi]

If anything, at this point I prefer to think that the bug is the Civilopedia description and not the behavior itself. In no version of the game Automobile stops Copernicus, and in practice we all suggest with all our strats and tips (for one city challenge, for example) that it should work forever. I think that initial idea was that automobiles do not allow Copernicus to do his research in clean and quiet city, and honestly this amuses me.
edit: grammar and some more clear phrasing

 

[rahorvat]

Even DOS Civ manual (page 84) states that Copernicus should stop working after a discovery of automobile. Perhaps they simply forgot to include that rule in the game... It's unlikely that this is intended (Copernicus to never stop working) even addendum to manual doesn't say that Copernicus should have permanent effect...

If it's not included in DOS version, the other versions of the game, which were translated from DOS version shouldn't have it included, and they don't!

 

[Theov]

Your wiki is wrong, my friend.
You can change that.

In blurb1.txt

*COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY2
Doubles knowledge production in city.

 

[rahorvat]

Your wiki is wrong, my friend.
You can change that.

In blurb1.txt

*COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY2
Doubles knowledge production in city.

Well, this is from the original Civiliopedia:

 

[Theov]

Well, this is from the original Civiliopedia:
View attachment 687652

yes, and that entry is incorrect, so you can edit it by changing the .txt file

 

[rahorvat]

yes, and that entry is incorrect, so you can edit it by changing the .txt file

So, you are saying that both the Official manual and Civilopedia are wrong?

 

[Lord_Hill]

The question is around intent.

Did the devs intend obsolescence when automobile is discovered and a game bug stops this happening?
Or did the devs intend it to never be obsolete and the documentation is bad?

My guess would be its a game bug, because copernicus forever is such a big advantage. But it will always be a guess, we don't actually know!

 

[rahorvat]

yes, and that entry is incorrect, so you can edit it by changing the .txt file

The question is around intent.

Did the devs intend obsolescence when automobile is discovered and a game bug stops this happening?
Or did the devs intend it to never be obsolete and the documentation is bad?

My guess would be its a game bug, because copernicus forever is such a big advantage. But it will always be a guess, we don't actually know!

Exactly, that is the reason why I asked the question "So, you are saying that both the Official manual and Civilopedia are wrong?"

I have a hunch that:
1) Its a Game bug, and not a
2) Official manual or Civilopedia bug.

Anyway, when weighing two reasons in my head, "Its a game bug" reason wins.

To clarify, working on OpenCiv1 gives me some insight into how complicated the game is, even I would have forgot all of the rules that game has, and Sid had less than a year to finish the game, it would have been such a pressure, and sure enough some things got overlooked...

To be completely honest after a year that I have spent on developing OpenCiv1, if I knew at the beginning what complexity game has, perhaps I would never ventured into this
A lot of developers ventured into this, CivOne was one such example, they all gave up (FreeCiv is an only success story, and that game is only, similar to, and not a, Civilization).
To sum everything up: Nobody had so complete codebase as OpenCiv1 has!

Cheers

 

[Theov]

A. Manual and Civilopedia: it expires with Automobile
B. Game: it doesn't expire with Automobile.

Not both can be true.

So, you either fix A or B. I told you how to fix A.

So, you are saying that both the Official manual and Civilopedia are wrong?

yes - or the game is wrong (programming error/oversight)

 

[Civinator]

In my eyes it is a game bug. Reasons:

1. When doing "last minute changes", Firaxis in the past gave a hint on this in a read me file.
2. There would have been a lot of time to change the entry in the manual for CivNet, as that version was released long time after the Dos version.
3. The negative input for game play by that "change" is significantly.

 

[rahorvat]

In my eyes it is a game bug. Reasons:

1. When doing "last minute changes", Firaxis in the past gave a hint on this in a read me file.

Can you cite the relevant section of Read me file?

2. There would have been a lot of time to change the entry in the manual for CivNet, as that version was released long time after the Dos version.

Hm, a good point, I never thought of that. Didn't even look into CivNet Manual. Yes, there was enough time for sure for such corrections.

Did anyone tried if Copernicus Lab expires by discovery of Automobile in CivNet?

3. The negative input for game play by that "change" is significantly.

Yes, for sure. The player would be left without a significant advantage, and that is maybe the point! So you would have to invest more skill into game play instead of relying on such an advantage...

 

[rahorvat]

A. Manual and Civilopedia: it expires with Automobile
B. Game: it doesn't expire with Automobile.

Not both can be true.

So, you either fix A or B. I told you how to fix A.

Your approach is elegant and easiest to implement, but the question still remains...

As many of us stated before: I'm still convinced that this is a game bug, and that a player (who has Copernicus Lab) should not have such a huge advantage for the rest of the game.