How To Play Civ At Its Best

If you want the ultimate Civ experience, try this...

1) Get C3C

2) Turn corruption down to 2%

3) Let Cavalry upgrade to Tank, Conquistador / Explorer to Infantry, Ancient Cavalry to Knight and Crusader to Guerrila

4) Give Mobile SAM 3 movement points, Tank 3 movement points, Mech Infantry 3 movement points and Modern Armor 4 movement points.

5) Change the Wonders...
a) Make all Wonders, which normally only put an improvement in every city of yours on the continent, put an improvement on every city of yours in the world
b) Let Magellan's Voyage create a Conquistador every 5 turns. Give it +3 movement points for all ships.
c) Let The Great Lighthouse create a Galley every 5 turns.
d) Romove points of obsoletion for all wonders, except for Knight's Templar and the Great Lighthouse.

6) Make the minimum research length for techs 1 turn (not 4).

7) Make Sugar, Tobacco, Tropical Fruit, Gold and Gems all Luxury Resources.

8) Afterwards, add your own little tweaks here and there to make the game even better according your own tastes.

=>TRY IT!!!<=

In my opinion it makes the game easier. Thirteen luxuries? Lowered corruption?

Explorer/Conquistador to infantry? How does cavalry upgrade to a tank? The early tanks weren't very fast (many WWI scenarios give tanks one movement point). Did you change the panzer? Why does Magellan's Voyage spit out a conquistador every five turns for the rest of the game? I like the fact that you made the game you feel it should be. However, be prepared for some criticism from people (such as myself) who feel the game is too unrealistic this way.

RegentMan -
Cavalry upgrades to tank for obvious reasons, namely because, even in the real world, when tanks came, cavalry went. Therefore, tanks replaced (or are upgrades of) cavalry. By the way, when I said tank, i meant panzer and tank. Sorry about that.
Magellan's Voyage, the first circumnvigation of the globe, was the journey that helped spawn the age of discovery. The main unit of the age of discovery was the explorer/conquistador. If you don't like the fact that this Wonder creates a unit for the rest of the game, then tweak it so it stops at, say, Steam Power.
As well, 13 luxuries helps the game and simply gives more for the civilizations to duke it out over.
And as for the lowered corruption? High corruption is completely unrealistic. Look at the U.S. (in the real world) for example: San Francisco produces no less than Washington does, so, in Civ, why should it be any different? Why should geography determine porductivity. Turning corruption down also speeds up scientific progress for everyone, which lets the game go faster. As for the notion that this will make the game too easy: just turn up the difficulty level. It's that simple.

As well, don't vote until you've actually tried it out.

Originally posted by civ_badger
As well, 13 luxuries helps the game and simply gives more for the civilizations to duke it out over.

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On the contrary, civs will care less about luxs because more of them have the 8 luxs that they need. Lux trading will become less important. If you have 8 luxs, why even duke it out for the others? They wouldn't do a thing. Same for trading.

And as for the lowered corruption? High corruption is completely unrealistic. Look at the U.S. (in the real world) for example: San Francisco produces no less than Washington does, so, in Civ, why should it be any different? Why should geography determine porductivity. Turning corruption down also speeds up scientific progress for everyone, which lets the game go faster. As for the notion that this will make the game too easy: just turn up the difficulty level. It's that simple.

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San Franscisco, I guess you could say, is like the FP. But, if you ask me, having 50 (much less 100 or 200 ) cities be able to build a tank every turn is just too game breaking. There's a unit limit, and the player can hit that quite easily. Because the player's turn is before the AI, the player gets to build the units first.

Also, if you want the game to go fast, play a deity game.

As well, don't vote until you've actually tried it out.

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Excess luxs? Believe me, I have.

Sorry to say to you, but I would to be honest in that I seriously think your changes make the game completely uninteresting and unbalanced.

Let's break it down.

1) Get C3C

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That's always good.

2) Turn corruption down to 2%

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I remember this WAY back in the early days of Civ3 (only, down to 0%). Every city you build in Civ3 has the potential of producing 100-200spt. That's a tank (and modern armor) every turn! Imaging 100 cities. That's 100 modern armor PER TURN! You'd have 1,000 in 10 turns. That kind of production would put any AI to shame, even on the highest levels. (since you and the AI can build tanks in the same number of turns). Also, with a limit of 8,000 units, you'll reach that very quickly, thus making you produce "wealth", and getting even more into the tech lead.

3) Let Cavalry upgrade to Tank, Conquistador / Explorer to Infantry, Ancient Cavalry to Knight and Crusader to Guerrila

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So, Chariots/Horsemen to Modern Armor? And with 2% corruption? No thanks. That's too powerful.

4) Give Mobile SAM 3 movement points, Tank 3 movement points, Mech Infantry 3 movement points and Modern Armor 4 movement points.

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Tanks are already powerful enough as it is. Ever build rails right up to the AI's border? You can attack cities in 1 turn as it is. Those changes might be good for a gigamap, but not in the standard game.

5) Change the Wonders...
a) Make all Wonders, which normally only put an improvement in every city of yours on the continent, put an improvement on every city of yours in the world

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Again, too powerful, and especially if they don't become obsolete (more on that, later).

b) Let Magellan's Voyage create a Conquistador every 5 turns. Give it +3 movement points for all ships.

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Why? Naval units are fine as it is, unless you want to cheat and run away from the AI...

c) Let The Great Lighthouse create a Galley every 5 turns.

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Why have wonders build normal units for you? Especially with 2% corruption...

d) Romove points of obsoletion for all wonders, except for Knight's Templar and the Great Lighthouse.

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You mean I don't have to research science, build temples, barracks and granaries? WOW! Just too powerful...

6) Make the minimum research length for techs 1 turn (not 4).

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I would imagine this would let you (or the AI) run away with the tech lead...

7) Make Sugar, Tobacco, Tropical Fruit, Gold and Gems all Luxury Resources.

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One of those is already a luxury resource (gems). The problem is, it becomes too easy to keep your cities happy, and lux trading becomes worthless.


But, for the sake of testing... modpack that shows the above changes

Thank you for summing that up Chieftess. That basically says everything I wanted to. Now to address some more personal issues.

Originally posted by civ_badger
Cavalry upgrades to tank for obvious reasons, namely because, even in the real world, when tanks came, cavalry went. Therefore, tanks replaced (or are upgrades of) cavalry.

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Just because a type of war machine is obsoleted by another doesn't justify upgrading to it. Ironclads replaced frigrates, destroyers replaced ironclads. Can you imagine changing a naval vessel from a wooden surface ship to an iron, almost submerged warship? Now can we turn that into a destroyer? I think not.

Originally posted by civ_badger
Magellan's Voyage, the first circumnvigation of the globe, was the journey that helped spawn the age of discovery. The main unit of the age of discovery was the explorer/conquistador. If you don't like the fact that this Wonder creates a unit for the rest of the game, then tweak it so it stops at, say, Steam Power.

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Universal Sufferage, the first step to equal rights for men and women, was the event that helped make democracy the way it is today. The main unit during the beginning of universal sufferage was probably a worker or rifleman. Does that justify producing a worker or rifleman every five turns for the rest of the game? If you make Magellan's Voyage obsolete, then why not the Temple of Zeus?

Originally posted by civ_badger
As well, 13 luxuries helps the game and simply gives more for the civilizations to duke it out over.

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As Chieftess pointed out, having twelve luxuries when eight is the maximum makes unhappiness problems go the way of the dodo bird. She would know. During beta testing, all of the new resources were luxuries. She and the others found out this wasn't such a good idea (kind of like half cost granaries for agricultural civs; realistic but unbalanced.).

Originally posted by civ_badger
And as for the lowered corruption? High corruption is completely unrealistic. Look at the U.S. (in the real world) for example: San Francisco produces no less than Washington does, so, in Civ, why should it be any different?

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See Chieftess' answer above.

I've tried something similar to civ_badger's mod, but I made my UU able to make everything: roads, 1000 attack, not obsolete, ect... I knew it was pure cheating, no one other civ had something similar. It was good just to be the ruler of the world from the beginning, but I was bored to hell after a while, as I had no competition.

The game balance could definetly be better in some units, but the posible changes would have not to unbalance the game. After all, I (and all of you, I think) loved Civ3(and expansions) for what it was/is and for what it offers in every era(units, improvements, wonders). It simply becomes too easy to have so many luxs, if you don't trade for them or take them with war: that sweet taste goes away...

I guess it's a fundamental difference between people who like to be challenged by the difficult aspects of the game, and people who like to mod them away (like corruption). Either is fine, each to his own, however you can't say one is "the ultimate civ experience" because everyone gets their own thing from the game. For one person it might be just the thrill of building a big powerful empire without much opposition, for another it might be the insane intellectual challenge of beating a souped-up AI against all the odds and in the face of dozens of self-imposed "rules" of fair combat. I think I land somewhere in the middle

I'm thinking that civ_badger had a bad day playing C3C, and is just taking out his anger on us in the form of outrageous ideas. If you’re angry with the A.I just take a cold shower dude!

To each his own, I guess.

How To Play Civ At Its Best...

We all have our favorite mods, maps, victory conditions, etc. I'm glad you found a combination of mods you like, civ_badger, but what's "best" for you wouldn't do it for me.

Wow, talk about overpowering & completly throwing balance out the window. But whatever works man, enjoy your mod.

I guess the mod's cool in a "once you get a bit ahead, you totally dominate" sort of way. But for me, totally dominating is the most boring part. At that point, I've won and there's just several more hours of moving units around until I see the invevitable victory screen.

This totally ruins Civ, no challenge w/ no corruption. Corruption exists so you have to be wise in city placement. The upgrades are non-sense.

The only part I would consider doing is maybe the luxury resource, with a twist. Certain luxuries would no longer exist at a certain tech, and another would replace it. There would always be 8 active luxuries, just not the same 8 throughout the game.

About unit upgrades, I have the main file set to allow all units to be upgraded to modern units.

Just because a type of war machine is obsoleted by another doesn't justify upgrading to it. Ironclads replaced frigrates, destroyers replaced ironclads. Can you imagine changing a naval vessel from a wooden surface ship to an iron, almost submerged warship? Now can we turn that into a destroyer? I think not.

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Your comment would be realistic if there was no cost to upgrade. Plus, using your way of thinking, how can a Warrior with an axe made out of wood and stone, wearing a loincloth and animal hide boots be upgraded to a Swordsman with an iron sword and shield, wearing a helmet, armor, etc?

When you hit that upgrade button, it charges you gold, which is the cost to make the sword, shield helmet, etc. The same is true with any upgrade. Now granted, the costs should be more but as far as I know, there isn't a single calvary in active use by the US military. It may be unrealistic to be ably to upgrade a horse to a tank, but, IMO, it is even more unrealistic to have a Cavalry, or Medieval Infantry in my arsenal along with Modern Armor and Mech Infantry.

Here is my unit upgrade chain (I don't have C3C, just PTW):

Scout->Explorer->Infantry

Spearman->Pikeman->Arquebuseer(renamed from Musketman)->Rifleman->Infantry->Mech Infantry

Warrior->Swordsman->Medieval Infantry->Musketman(new unit avail w/Chemistry and Musketeer is French UU)->Rifleman

Archer->Longbowman->Musketman

Marine and Paratrooper->Light Infantry(New unit avail w/Synth Fibers and has Amph and Airdrop ability)

I switched Horsebackriding and the Wheel techs for purposes of realism. Why? I can't believe that man first figured out to attach a wheeled cart to a horse before he figured out how to ride on its back. However, because of the wheeled restrictions, Horsmen don't upgrade to chariots. So continuing:

Horseman and Chariot->Knight->Cavalry->Tank->Modern Armor

Galley->Caravel->Galleon->Transport->Modern Transport(New unit avail w/Computers, carries 10 units and moves faster)

Frigate->Ironclad->Destroyer->AEGIS Cruiser

Battleship->AEGIS Cruiser

Submarine->Nuclear Submarine

Carrier->Nuclear Carrier(New unit avail w/Nuclear Power, carries 6 and moves faster)

Fighter->Jet Fighter

Bomber->Modern Bomber(New unit avail w/Space Flight)

Ridicule me if you like, but I can't stand having outdated units still in use.

Originally posted by Ranos
Your comment would be realistic if there was no cost to upgrade. Plus, using your way of thinking, how can a Warrior with an axe made out of wood and stone, wearing a loincloth and animal hide boots be upgraded to a Swordsman with an iron sword and shield, wearing a helmet, armor, etc?

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You can train the warrior to wield a sword and don armor. You can't attach iron plates to a frigate a call it an ironclad. You can't add deck guns to an ironclad and call it a destroyer; it'd sink. If you can't stand ancient units running around during the modern era, disband your obsolete units, get your cities off wealth, and make some tanks. Also, a warrior that can upgrade to mech. infantry? Are there chickens here, because all I'm hearing is "cheap cheap cheap."

I haven't tried it, but it makes the game far too easy. Low corruption and extra lux. Plus the wonders are way too overpowered. I do agree with your first point, but sadly that is all.

Thanx for all the replies posted. While some of you might not agree with me, Ranos' comment basically says what I didn't: playing with outdated units SUX.
To Chieftess: What were you trying to say the problem was with having a minimum research time of 1? Right now, without the changes, already having a research length of 4 for all techs (as has happened to me before I started 'tweaking') means that it's totally useless to build wonders such as Copernicus' observatory, save for cultural reasons.
To HamaticBabylon: So I should take a cold shower. What's this got to do with Civ3?
To everyone: These changes aren't about making the game any easier. These changes are about making the game more realistic. You want easy? Run the game on chieftain. You want a realistic game where everyone is trying to be first to break out of the pack? Run this game on Deity or Sid.
-- I didn't kill the game. I made it more like the real world. --