[Vote] (6-48) Make Jungle on Grassland Viable on Other Mapscripts That Use Default Feature Generation

[N.Core]

Also see:

(6-CP) Add Ivory to Additional Tiles and Change Distribution

Proposal: -Ivory is allowed to spawn on featureless plains, jungle plains, jungle grassland, or featureless grassland (if other types aren't available) -Ivory will continue to flatten any tiles it spawns on, but will not remove jungle. -Ivory is spread out across the map similarly to marble...

forums.civfanatics.com

(6-CP) Distribute Ivory Like Marble and Allow It To Spawn In Grassland Jungle

Counterproposal to https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/6-36-add-ivory-to-additional-tiles-and-change-distribution.685879/ Ivory spawns clumped together like a monopoly luxury --> Ivory is scattered across the map (like marble is) Ivory spawns on open plains only --> Ivory spawns on open...

forums.civfanatics.com

Current mechanic explanation:
By default (current behavior), a Jungle can be generated on Grassland and Plains. But, there's a section within FeatureGenerator.lua that overrides all Grassland beneath a Jungle to Plains, practically reducing the amount of Grassland on the map since some of them are converted to Plains. It affects most maps that use the default behavior (not overriding the function), but not Communitu_74a which uses its own function.

Spoiler :

As @azum4roll said, with the Communitu_74a map, instead of all Grassland beneath the Jungle being converted to Plains, it changed to 1/3 51% of them being converted to Plains. (Update: It's actually 51% of them got converted to Plains.)

Proposal:
Make Jungle on Grassland also appears on other map scripts aside from Communitu_74a by changing it from all of the Grassland beneath the Jungle, to only 1/2 of them being converted to Plains.

Reasoning:
Jungle on Grassland is only Communitu_74a thing, and by default (coded in FeatureGenerator.lua), all Jungle tiles will convert terrain below it to Plains during generation. Only map scripts that override the function (such as Communitu_74a) changed this behavior. This proposal aims to make the feature generation behavior consistent across many map scripts.

There are proposals that are affected by this too (see above). So without this proposal, those other proposals won't apply to maps outside of Communitu_74a.

Sponsor requirement:
This only requires custom modifications to FeatureGenerator.lua file.


Mapscript Changes

 

[adan_eslavo]

How about your Tectonics?

 

[Rekk]

Why is it desirable to make three food tiles prevalent in an ecosystem that already has too much food?

 

[N.Core]

How about your Tectonics?

It uses default generation from FeatureGenerator.lua. So yeah unless this got changed, there would be no Jungle on Grassland on any maps that don't override this behavior.

 

[N.Core]

Why is it desirable to make three food tiles prevalent in an ecosystem that already has too much food?

Because Communitu_74a map already did so? It's stupid to make balance changes only available to that map.

 

[Tekamthi]

Can you elaborate on the rationale? Does it create some kind of imbalance having no jungle on grassland? is it more a thematic thing?

Never have I been playing civ and said to myself "wait a minute! there's no jungle on the grasslands!!!"

 

[N.Core]

Can you elaborate on the rationale? Does it create some kind of imbalance having no jungle on grassland? is it more a thematic thing?

Never have I been playing civ and said to myself "wait a minute! there's no jungle on the grasslands!!!"

There are proposals that balance Ivory placement on the map by allowing them to appear on Jungle on Grassland. But there's no Jungle on Grassland for maps outside of Communitu_74a so that proposal doesn't make sense and needs amendment.

If some of you don't like this proposal, then ask @azum4roll to remove Jungle on Grassland on Communitu_74a. I just want to make this behavior consistent across many map scripts.

 

[Tekamthi]

okay so consistency is the prime goal then? thats fine, i don't have a problem with it per se... just seeing a lot of proposals that are kind of arbitrary as far as gameplay goes. If you can make a solid case for why the game will play better with this, even if its just slightly better, you can push me off the fence

Some maps having different distributions of terrain/features makes for some nice, if subtle, variety imo. The jungle grasslands are rather minor though so

 

[Rekk]

Because Communitu_74a map already did so? It's stupid to make balance changes only available to that map.

I agree. Don't do it.

If some of you don't like this proposal, then ask @azum4roll to remove Jungle on Grassland on Communitu_74a. I just want to make this behavior consistent across many map scripts.

Or, let map scripts do what they want.

 

[N.Core]

Or, let map scripts do what they want.

Not when that map script became the benchmark for the mod, causing people to make balance changes around it.

 

[Rekk]

It's not the benchmark. Continents is.

 

[N.Core]

It's not the benchmark. Continents is.

Some of these posts say otherwise. People act like the map is the officially supported map, which means it's the benchmark map.

Communitas_79 Strategic Resource Poll

As people are looking at possible tweaks to the Communitas_79 map, one question is around the plentifulness (or lack thereor) of various strategic resources. So this poll is to guage how you feel about the various strategic resources on the map. NOTE: This is for Communitas_79 ONLY. If your not...

forums.civfanatics.com

Communitas Strategic Resource Poll - THE RESULT

The polls have finished up, so lets check in and see if we can glean any results. Our Total Population: Now that we are using voting as a standard practice, this gives us some understanding of our total "voting" population. Based on current results, the max amount of votes any proposal has...

forums.civfanatics.com

Too few iron in community map?

In my last Rome game, I have my only 3 iron in a city 10+ tiles away from my capital. And in this game only 2 accesible iron nearby. Compared to the abundance of horse, is it too difficult for Swordman-UU civilizaiton?

forums.civfanatics.com

Especially this one, it got voted the most:

3.6 AI Only Game Statistics 700 game update (350 Emperor / 350 Warlord) + vote for next config

Includes the 263 from the previous post plus an additional 87, as well as 350 warlord games. Results are overall quite different on warlord difficulty compared to emperor; results with no AI bonuses might be insightful. I've also included a Poll this time to decide on the settings for the next...

forums.civfanatics.com

 

[Rekk]

Communitu is not the officially sanctioned map script for VP. It is

stupid

to make changes to the the base mod so that it is more consistent with a single map script.

 

[N.Core]

Communitu is not the officially sanctioned map script for VP. It is to make changes to the the base mod so that it is more consistent with a single map script.

Even if you said that it cannot hide the fact that it is officially supported since it came with VP and it regularly gets updated. People play with it and make balance changes around it.

I don't care if this proposal won't get implemented since I use my own solution, but there are other people who play with default maps and are unable to get the benefit of some proposed changes.

 

[Rekk]

We should not be making balance proposals that affect a single map script, and we should not be making proposals to force changes to all map scripts just to make a different proposal meaningful.

 

[ma_kuh]

What is the historic reasoning for grasslands in Communitu jungles? Is it purely aesthetics?

 

[Rekk]

What is the historic reasoning for grasslands in Communitu jungles? Is it purely aesthetics?

Because @azum4roll doesn't like that the default engine directly changes grassland tiles to plains if it has a jungle feature on it. That's it, as far as I can tell.

 

[azum4roll]

Because @azum4roll doesn't like that the default engine directly changes grassland tiles to plains if it has a jungle feature on it. That's it, as far as I can tell.

Nah, I didn't change this, just making it stay. Ask the original Communitas creator.

Originally it was worse since there's also code to reduce grassland jungle yields by 1 .

 

[N.Core]

Nah, I didn't change this, just making it stay. Ask the original Communitas creator.

But now you're the one in charge of maintaining it. So you're the one who's responsible for the map. The original creators are inactive (or probably no longer in the Civ 5 modding scene) so it's pointless to ask them.

 

[N.Core]

Okay, the proposal updated with the current mechanic explanation, and also the exact number of how many Grasslands beneath the Jungles are converted.
Instead of all Grasslands beneath Jungles being converted to Plains, only 1/3 of them are converted to Plains.