[Vote] (7-29) Porcelain Tower Changeup

[Stalker0]

Proposal: Remove the Research Agreement clause (the wonder provides the same bonus now regardless of research agreement setting). Science from the city reduced from +25% to +10%

Rationale: The Porcelain Tower is overpowered as a science wonder right now, and there is a large disparity between the RA benefit and the local city one. Best to just merge those and reduce the overall bonus to bring the wonder more in line power wise.

EDIT: Based on initial feedback I am trying a different adjustment where I weaken the main science, keep the GS, and drop the RA bonus so we can just sync the two together.

 

[Legen]

Maybe we could just tone down the +25% science in the capital instead? This effect is not active if Research Agreements is enabled, and the wonder's power is much lower with that setting on; we could just tone it down to about the expected power of the alternative +50% stronger Research Agreement effect.

I also play with Research Agreements on from time to time, and it doesn't make sense to nerf the wonder when that setting is on based on how it performs when it is off. Porcelain Tower is overall weaker than Leaning Tower of Pisa with Research Agreements on, it doesn't have to be even weaker by removing the free GS.

 

[rkkn]

how much of your science comes from research agreements?

 

[Legen]

Very little. The procs are usually around 3k to 4k when they first come, and they're limited by a 50-turn delay. You can't have many of them going on either, since they cost gold and require a declaration of friendship.

 

[axatin]

It‘s difficult to balance the wonder as long as it depends on game options how it works. I’d suggest to change that and make it give the capital science boost (plus free GS?) on all settings.

Also, research agreements could be buffed, but that‘s a different topic.

 

[msw1]

To be honest I don't think it needs that much of a nerf. +25% science in your capital isn't that amazing unless you only have 1-3 cities, in which case you need all the help you can get! If it didn't give the GS I probably wouldn't build this except on a very tall civ.

 

[Stalker0]

alright based on the initial feedback I'm trying it a different way, see what you all think.

 

[Legen]

It's better now, I can agree with the new proposal. Just needs to rewrite the rationale.

 

[hokath]

I think it's well past time this strange exception is smoothed out. Agree.

 

[azum4roll]

To compare, Sistine Chapel on the same tier has +10% Culture to every city (albeit rounded down), and a great theming bonus.

 

[Thibix Magnus]

To be honest I don't think it needs that much of a nerf. +25% science in your capital isn't that amazing unless you only have 1-3 cities, in which case you need all the help you can get! If it didn't give the GS I probably wouldn't build this except on a very tall civ.

I agree with this, it feels like an unnecessary nerf on tall play (more so on OCC). If the wonder is too strong for larger empires then just remove the GS and keep the 25%.

 

[axatin]

I sponsor this

 

[azum4roll]

Too much of a nerf. It's only local Science so it's easiest to compare it with Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, which gets +10% Production, Gold and Science during WLTKD, which is pretty much always. A single free Scientist (+1 Illiteracy reduction) is no match for +10% Production and Gold + free Stone Works, and that's even an Ancient wonder.

 

[CppMaster]

Too much of a nerf. It's only local Science so it's easiest to compare it with Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, which gets +10% Production, Gold and Science during WLTKD, which is pretty much always. A single free Scientist (+1 Illiteracy reduction) is no match for +10% Production and Gold + free Stone Works, and that's even an Ancient wonder.

But won't you build it anyway? If so, then it's ok.