[Vote] (7-40) Progress Rework Proposals

[Recursive]

Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 40
Discussion Thread: (7-40) Progress: Organization Prod Nerf/Fraternity Food Nerf
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @Legen

Proposal Details
Proposal: Organization (Progress) policy, reduce hammers from +3 per city to +2. Fraternity (Progress) policy, reduce Food from +3 to +2

Rationale: Its become a common belief that Tradition is too weak and the moment and that progress and authority are too strong. These small adjustments, along with changes to Authority and tradition in other proposals, are meant to help rebalance the trees.



VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 40a
Discussion Thread: (7-40a) Progress: Liberty Gold and Fraternity Food Nerf
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @Legen

Proposal Details
Current Liberty:
+3 Gold in every City. +25% Tile improvement rate. A Worker appears near the Capital.

Proposed Liberty:
+2 Gold in every City. +25% Tile improvement rate. A Worker appears near the Capital.

Current Fraternity:
+3 Food in every City. +3 Science from City Connections.

Proposed Fraternity:
+2 Food in every City. +3 Science from City Connections.

This is my take.
Earlier tile improvements and City Connection Science is what drives the Progress tree early on. Improvements provide more yields than buildings, and Science unlocks techs which provide Culture.
These two policies are usually picked first before the left side ones, which focus more on buildings and have scaling benefits.
Nerfing the right side should make going left first more viable.



VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 40b
Discussion Thread: (7-40b) Progress: Nerf Gold and Production
Proposer: @axatin
Sponsor: @Legen

Proposal Details
Proposal:

• Progress Policy "Organization": Reduce Production from +3 per City to +2 per City
• Progress Policy "Liberty": Reduce Gold from +3 per City to +2 per City

Rationale: I agree with the following arguments made in the discussion of the OP:

I agree with Organization warranting a decrease. +1 movement to workers is already amazing for a tier 1 policy.

But Fraternity is a tier 2 policy. I feel like it should be a bit stronger.

the first policy has a bigger impact on whether you choose left or right, so to better maintain choice balance I'd cut the gold policy instead of the food one

 

[ma_kuh]

For anyone like me who has trouble visualizing these in comparison with each other and in context with the tree:

	7-40	7-40a	7-40b
Organization (left 1)	+1 Movement for Civilian Units. Workers and Trade Units are trained 25% more quickly. +2 Production in every City.	+1 Movement for Civilian Units. Workers and Trade Units are trained 25% more quickly. +3 Production in every City.	+1 Movement for Civilian Units. Workers and Trade Units are trained 25% more quickly. +2 Production in every City.
Liberty (right 1)	A Worker appears near the Capital. Tile improvement rate increased by 25%. +3 Gold in every City.	A Worker appears near the Capital. Tile improvement rate increased by 25%. +2 Gold in every City.	A Worker appears near the Capital. Tile improvement rate increased by 25%. +2 Gold in every City.
Fraternity (right 2)	+2 Food in every City, and +3 Science from City Connections.	+2 Food in every City, and +3 Science from City Connections.	+3 Food in every City, and +3 Science from City Connections.

 

[hokath]

Shame the pdan one didn't make the deadline, it was nice.

 

[pineappledan]

It Was nice, wasn't it?

 

[Stalker0]

It Was nice, wasn't it?

but not wholesome

 

[Stalker0]

I feel like the "a" proposal here is the wrong direction, as it nerfs one side of the tree too strongly. Progress has a legtimate choice of which path to take right now, I would hate to see that thrown out. OG or B both hit both sides which I think is the better route.

 

[azum4roll]

I always struggle with both science and culture going left first, so no.

 

[Stalker0]

I always struggle with both science and culture going left first, so no.

The building culture is much stronger than the science culture in my experience, going left I moved through the tree faster than when I go right. Science I agree as should be expected, that's the tradeoff of picking which direction.

 

[ma_kuh]

One minor point that I like about 40b is that the numbers remain consistent: the T1 policies would be +2, and the T2 would remain +3 for both halves. It's a measure of consistency that appeals to me. Plus I think the two sides are already competitive, so a double nerf to the right side feels over the top.