[Vote] (7-69) Diplomatic Buildings - Count CS you Conquer as Allies for Bonuses

[Stalker0]

Proposal: (friendship benefits unchanged)

Schriver's Office
+1 food and +1 faith per CS ally and CS you have conquered.
Chancery
+2 production per CS ally and CS you have conquered.
Wire Service
+1 culture and +1 science per CS ally and CS you have conquered.

Rationale: The conquest of CS has a very high oppurtunity cost right now. You lose out on CS yields, votes, quests, other CS hate your guts, and you lose out on the bonuses from your diplomatic buildings.

This change removes at one of those oppurtunity costs. When you conquer a CS you now still get the ally bonuses from your various diplomatic buildings. This helps to better balance conquering a CS versus befriending it, you still don't get many of the CS benefits when you conquer, but you get some.

 

[hokath]

There is also Rome.

 

[Stalker0]

There is also Rome.

Rome's UA would not change by this proposal. Rome still receives the yield benefits of a CS it has conquered. That would not change, it just would also receive more Schriver, chancery, and wire service benefits for its conquered CS....just like everyone else.

 

[azum4roll]

Implementation detail: are these grouped into the current ally table or does the new conquered yields belong to a new table?

 

[Recursive]

Last minute sponsored.

 

[hokath]

I'm not a fan.
The opportunity cost is important because if taking city states is a good idea from early on, the diplomacy game will be thrown out of whack.
For me it is the last line of defense for a militaristic civ to damage the diplo civs when they are inaccessible/too strong/etc. as a late game phenomenon.
Also CS aren't CS anymore once I conquer them, they are puppets or annexed cities, why do they get a bonus? Feels odd.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm not a fan.
The opportunity cost is important because if taking city states is a good idea from early on, the diplomacy game will be thrown out of whack.
For me it is the last line of defense for a militaristic civ to damage the diplo civs when they are inaccessible/too strong/etc. as a late game phenomenon.
Also CS aren't CS anymore once I conquer them, they are puppets or annexed cities, why do they get a bonus? Feels odd.

is they aren't a CS anymore than why can't you raze them?

The answer is simple.....they are still CS to the game at their core.

 

[azum4roll]

They're at trash locations both yield-wise and defensiveness-wise, so there needs to be more incentive for conquering them. This proposal is meant to be an indirect Rome buff.

 

[Legen]

Honestly, I don't think diplomatic buildings should be incentivizing you to go murdering city-states. That's the opposite of their intended purpose: to improve your ability to gain their favor.

 

[azum4roll]

But it does NOT incentivize that. Allying a CS is much easier than conquering it. This is meant to compensate for all the yield LOSS and resources spent for conquering a CS.

 

[AndreyK]

You conquer them and get bonus as ally? I think that should give penalty, not bonus.

 

[azum4roll]

If you want Rome to not use its UA, sure.

 

[AndreyK]

I wrote not about Rome but about this proposal.

 

[azum4roll]

You think this proposal should instead give a penalty to conquering CS instead of a bonus, which means Rome gets less out of conquering CS than simply allying them.

 

[AndreyK]

Doesn't it even sound strange, get an ally bonus for killing and conquering people? I think then might be Rome may be changed if it gets hurt too much.

 

[Anarcomu]

I'm gonna vote against this, however I wouldn't mind Rome specifically consider them as ally for building purpose as part of their UA instead (keeping votes out, I think they could get strong yields for conquest, but no diplo bonus)

 

[KungCheops]

Doesn't it even sound strange, get an ally bonus for killing and conquering people? I think then might be Rome may be changed if it gets hurt too much.

How much more ally can they be than being a part of your empire?

 

[Stalker0]

Doesn't it even sound strange, get an ally bonus for killing and conquering people? I think then might be Rome may be changed if it gets hurt too much.

It’s not an ally bonus, it’s a conquest bonus that just happens to be the same if you had allied with them

 

[Anarcomu]

How does it works for Venice ? Mechanically without change, they wouldn't benefit since the city is considered part of their Empire, liberation goes to them and they can be razed. But it would feels weird if it does not benefit them.

 

[Stalker0]

How does it works for Venice ? Mechanically without change, they wouldn't benefit since the city is considered part of their Empire, liberation goes to them and they can be razed.

You are saying Venice can raze CS to the ground? completely remove them from the game?