A Guide to Deity Space Victory using a Single City in Civ4

[ABigCivFan]

This looks very interesting.

questions:

1. Do you need to increase the # of AIs to a standard size map so that each has less land to work with?

2. Do you need to select AIs so there is no industrious AIs or Mensa?

3. How do you deal with early DOW when you are building Pyrimids?

I think many people have proven that a lot of things are possible in CIV4 even at highest difficulty levels. But a strategy like this will take huge amount of trial and error and mid game failures.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

This is not OCC, just a strategy to regular Deity games. Even changed the title of the guide now, since everyone seems to get it wrong.

I don't think changing the title is enough - I think you need to rewrite the introduction as well. Take the time to make it easier for readers to discover that this is a good article about a self imposed variant.

I'm also inclined to think that it's a nice start on a great article. A bit of reorganizing, and fleshing out more details - either by explaining more about the intricacies here, or adding a bibliography to point to threads that provide the details.

I'd also like to see more details about the time line, especially specific milestones (what turn should we expect to see the National Epic completed? National Park?). I'd also like to see more clearly what the start looks like: the delayed workers look to me like an opportunity to improve the base you are building on - but it's not clear what to use as the first comparison point. Research rates at interesting points would also be useful.

I'm surprised that the Shwedagon Paya doesn't play a bigger part, as I would expect that to get you to Pacifism faster than Philosophy.

I'd also like to see more justification for the use of the Space Elevator - most discussions of Space Race dismiss it as a "waste of hammers". So what's different here?

A simplifying variation might be to use the balanced resources setting, which should guarantee aluminum for you if you don't wander too far from the starting point. Also, I don't think they ever fixed the shuffle bug, which means that in many cases you can predict where the Al will appear.

 

[specialist]

This looks very interesting.

questions:

1. Do you need to increase the # of AIs to a standard size map so that each has less land to work with?

2. Do you need to select AIs so there is no industrious AIs or Mensa?

3. How do you deal with early DOW when you are building Pyrimids?

I think many people have proven that a lot of things are possible in CIV4 even at highest difficulty levels. But a strategy like this will take huge amount of trial and error and mid game failures.

1. This would make it easier, more players to manipulate. I played this on standard settings, I in general dislike the idea of modifying the settings to make a specific type of game easier.

2. No selection of AI's either, though war mongerers are easier to manage, as they need less convincing to halt their research/culture plans.

3. Once you get Oracle, Academy and Library, your culture will start giving your city defense and visibility. If you see troops on the border, get Archery, build Walls, Warriors and Archers before the Chariots/Axemen/Spearmen arrive. Once your cultural sphere gets large enough, it works as a major deterrent, and they will DOW someone easier to attack.

The biggest failures in the strategy are the ones that you won't notice first. For example a cultural computer gets too strong to be handled, and you shouldn't have traded with him in the beginning, but with the war mongerers. You notice the mistake at the very end.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Do you think you can pull this off with Inca with a food rich capital while running a CE without the pyramid?

 

[specialist]

I'd also like to see more details about the time line, especially specific milestones (what turn should we expect to see the National Epic completed? National Park?). I'd also like to see more clearly what the start looks like: the delayed workers look to me like an opportunity to improve the base you are building on - but it's not clear what to use as the first comparison point. Research rates at interesting points would also be useful.

I'm surprised that the Shwedagon Paya doesn't play a bigger part, as I would expect that to get you to Pacifism faster than Philosophy.

I'd also like to see more justification for the use of the Space Elevator - most discussions of Space Race dismiss it as a "waste of hammers". So what's different here?

A couple of pictures. One just before finishing Pyramids with Organized Religion and 2 workers chopping the turn Mathematics is researched. Pyramids was delayed by defending against Montezuma and no Stone in sight.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=213996&stc=1&d=1242070746

Another when finishing Stage 2 to get Biology:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=213997&stc=1&d=1242070746

Haven't incorporated Shwedagon Paya, because you must get Oracle, Pyramids and Great Library. Around the same the time you finish Great Library with Organized Religion and Bureacracy, you will research Philosophy. You still might want to wait the switch until National Epic is done.

As to Space Elevator, its needed. I earlier went for towards Research Institute first, but you need to start building Apollo Project and Space Elevator asap to get the Space Ship in time. But there could be something still unoptimized here. You also want to build only 1 thruster, as they will take 3 or 4 turns to finish but make the space victory only 2 turns faster.

 

[specialist]

Do you think you can pull this off with Inca with a food rich capital while running a CE without the pyramid?

I doubt it, or it would at least be very different. Near the end of the game specialists will be netting over 250+ research per turn*modifiers, the rest coming from commerce and hammers, totaling 700-1000 points. Getting close to this with mostly commerce would require something completely different.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Another nice to have would be the pace at which the GP spawn

 

[cas]

Kudos for winning with a one-city non OCC deity space...but this has a very low chance of success (3/100 would be kind) on a random map with random leaders. There are too many factors out of your control, especially on the diplo AI front. Get a strong AI and too many wars...they just vassal their way to victory (dom or powerhouse SS before you launch, possible diplo VC also). Get a cultural AI on a separate landmass with no way to effectively slow them with wars...and you'll lose to culture VC in the 1800's. You already mentioned the lack of aluminum which is VERY common and you won't know until late game.

Anyway, interesting read, but not really applicable to general deity games. More of a HoF victory where you can manipulate the starting conditions to acheive a goal.

cas

 

[brades]

Kudos for winning with a one-city non OCC deity space...but this has a very low chance of success (3/100 would be kind)...

Oddly, that's about my victory percent on diety games with all sorts of things stacking the deck in my favor

 

[Jet]

Never mind.

 

[Duckweed]

You don't seem to get how far you get with diplomatic manipulation in CIV4. If you don't play diplomacy, then yes those things will happen. Pyramids doesn't come reliably, the other wonders you will get easily due to tech lead, unless you have messed up at some point earlier.

I saw someone even posted an Huge Pangaea deity OCC always war win with Inca. It is possible with an insane capital and tons of reload. However, I would not call it a guild or strategy, since as I mentioned, it is not repeatable. I admire your patience and time on the game. Try to participate in some of forum's games and play without reload, you will see what I mean.

 

[specialist]

Another nice to have would be the pace at which the GP spawn

Some pointers from the game I posted:

1675 AD : 1/12 turns
1160 AD : 1/12 turns
125 AD : 1/10 turns (just before National Epic and switching to Pacifism)
1080 BC : 1/11 turns

Those are usual spawn rates, they are lower in practice since you need hammers.

 

[Shurdus]

I think a cooky is deserved for the effort, but it was time wasted. If everything goes just right and such, only then is this a viable strategy. If there are any advantages of doing this as opposed to a normal game however I do not see them.

It is impressive to do this on deity but it is nothing more than a gimmicky strategy that only works with preset games. If you can do this with a typical play-now game, manually picked leader - even regenerating the map would be fine - then I say well done, but like this it is utter nonsense.

 

[RJM]

I think a cooky is deserved for the effort, but it was time wasted. If everything goes just right and such, only then is this a viable strategy. If there are any advantages of doing this as opposed to a normal game however I do not see them.

It is impressive to do this on deity but it is nothing more than a gimmicky strategy that only works with preset games. If you can do this with a typical play-now game, manually picked leader - even regenerating the map would be fine - then I say well done, but like this it is utter nonsense.

This single city approach makes far more sense to me than playing a so called "OCC". The point about an OCC in previous versions of the game was to use the standard rules but only build one city. It was always a voluntary decision by the player to play in a particular way. Since the so called "OCC" with civ 4 uses different rules from the standard game, it seems to me to be pretty pointless.

RJM

 

[RJM]

I gave this a try myself - at warlord rather than deity, since I've never won a deity game in my life! I've reported my results in another thread.

RJM

 

[Alexfrog]

I've also been working on this for a while now, and have just posted this article:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=324408

My findings are pretty similar to yours:
Oracle, Pyramids, Great Library, Biology ASAP, use diplomacy to your advantage and nuke AIs at the end to stop cultural wins.

The main difference in our strategies is that I find Ghandi to be the best, not Peter (Peter is 2nd, imo). Spiritual seems more helpful to me than Expansive, and the starting techs are better.

Playing this strategy is a lot of fun, and goes pretty quick. Its fun to see how quickly you can get Biology in the early ADs, and trying to get Oxford in BCs.

 

[Alexfrog]

As to Space Elevator, its needed. I earlier went for towards Research Institute first, but you need to start building Apollo Project and Space Elevator asap to get the Space Ship in time. But there could be something still unoptimized here. You also want to build only 1 thruster, as they will take 3 or 4 turns to finish but make the space victory only 2 turns faster.

In my Deity wins I have never managed to be in the right latitude for Space Elevator. I dont think you need it, youre already at like +200% to production due to Aluminum, Research Lab, Beuraucracy. Aluminum is essential however.


I am pretty sure that going for Research Institue/Research Lab first (prioritize it next after Biology) is key. (Even when youre using Ghandi and dont get the free scientists). The research boost it gives is important, and then it gives you 5 spaceship pieces to build once you have Apollo program.

I gave a tech ordering that I have been following in my guide.

 

[specialist]

The main difference in our strategies is that I find Ghandi to be the best, not Peter (Peter is 2nd, imo). Spiritual seems more helpful to me than Expansive, and the starting techs are better.

Playing this strategy is a lot of fun, and goes pretty quick. Its fun to see how quickly you can get Biology in the early ADs, and trying to get Oxford in BCs.

Its fun alright, a single game takes some hours, or an evening if you optimize it.
I think some differences in our guides come from you playing with OCC on and smaller maps. Without OCC, gunning for Oxford is not an option. Also, getting Biology from Liberalism won't happen, as tech research will be slower and one of the 7 opponents will get to Liberalism before you get this set up.

In my Deity wins I have never managed to be in the right latitude for Space Elevator. I dont think you need it, youre already at like +200% to production due to Aluminum, Research Lab, Beuraucracy. Aluminum is essential however.

I am pretty sure that going for Research Institue/Research Lab first (prioritize it next after Biology) is key. (Even when youre using Ghandi and dont get the free scientists). The research boost it gives is important, and then it gives you 5 spaceship pieces to build once you have Apollo program.

This is a big decision, as going for Research Institute will boost your research by over 100, but will dedicate some 30 turns of research. I used to do this first as well, but going the industrial route means you get Factory and the other industrial buildings. This will help in farming Great Engineers, and building the Electricity/Radio wonders before cultural opponents do.

 

[Meatbomb]

I think a cooky is deserved for the effort, but it was time wasted.

Oh FFS, it is A GAME. Yes, he certainly has wasted his time compared to the valuable investments of time made by people PLAYING Civ with other GAME settings. hahahahahaha!!

I do not know why, but in this thread I am seeing some really snarky, crappy behaviour.

Well done to Mr. specialist for enjoying his GAME, and sharing with us.

 

[brades]

I think a cooky is deserved for the effort, but it was time wasted.

Oh FFS, it is A GAME. Yes, he certainly has wasted his time compared to the valuable investments of time made by people PLAYING Civ with other GAME settings. hahahahahaha!!

I do not know why, but in this thread I am seeing some really snarky, crappy behaviour.

Well done to Mr. specialist for enjoying his GAME, and sharing with us.

I completely agree with this poster, the only point of playing this game, or any other game for that matter, is enjoyment.