A Thousand Ages of Gold: RFC India

[DC123456789]

I still dispute that UHVs cannot be found because some of the civs are "too obscure". To prove my point, here is a list of UHVs for the 12 ingame Mahajanapada kingdoms:

Spoiler :

Kashi
1. Found Hinduism and build the Kashi Vishwanath by 500 BC
2. Control or vassalize Kashi, Kosala and Magadha by 500 BC
3. Make Varanasi the most cultured city in India in 400 BC
Magadha
1. Control or vassalize Magadha, Kashi, Anga, Vrijji, Vatsa, Panchala, and Kosala by 450 BC
2. Found Buddhism and Jainism
3. Become a Saint
Vrijji
1. Be the happiest civilization nation in 500 BC
2. Be the first nation to convert to Buddhism
3. Make Vaishali the largest city in India
Kosala
1. Build the Upanishads and the Ramayana
2. Be the largest and most powerful nation in India in 500 BC
3. Build 3 Buddhist Monasteries and a Hindu Bannab by 400 BC
Panchala
1. Be the largest and most powerful nation in India in 500 BC
2. Control or vassalize Malla, Surasena, and Kuru by 500 BC
3. Be the first nation to convert to Hinduism
Malla
1. Have the most experienced army in India
2. Become a Buddhist saint
3. Control at least 3 provinces in 450 BC
Vatsa
1. Settle 3 Great Merchants in Kausambi
2. Make Kausambi the most prosperous (most commerce) city in India in 500 BC
3. Build 3 Buddhist Monasteries and 3 Markets by 500 BC
Surasena
1. Be the first nation to convert to Buddhism
2. Settle 3 religions in Mathura by 600 BC
3. Accumulate 5000 culture in Mathura by 500 BC
Avanti
1. Export at least 3 luxuries by 400 BC
2. Conquer 3 provinces in the Ganges plain by 450 BC
3. Connect Ujayani to the capital of another nation in the Ganges plain by 500 BC
Kuru
1. Build the Mahabharata by 500 BC
2. Build 3 Jain temples by 500 BC
3. Be the healthiest and most technologically advanced nation in India in 400 BC
Matsya
1. Control or vassalize Surasena and Vatsa by 500 BC
2. Become the most powerful nation in India
3. Control one fish resource by 500 BC
Gandhara
1. Build the Arthashastra by 500 BC
2. Make Taxila the city producing the most science in India in 400 BC
3. Ensure there are no Persian or Greek cities in Gandhara, Upper Punjab, or Lower Punjab in 500 BC and 280 BC

Note that most of the dates are arbitrary, and I make no claim that these UHVs are balanced or even possible. However, if I can come up with half-decent UHVs for even these obscure kingdoms, I am sure we can come up with some for all of them.

Also, why did you disable all of the other victories? They are all still pretty fun victories to get, and also still a worthy challenge (except for domination, possibly, which might need to have its thresholds raised because of the generally smaller map).

 

[srpt]

I certainly don't disagree that your approach would work, but for this mod I thought that one set of conditions with many choices would be just as fun and interesting, and a lot faster to code. all your conditions are simply variations on the same themes as my generic ones.

I disabled the other victory types because I actually want the balanced approach to be the only way to win this mod. I'm not personally interested in pursuing them or balancing them and I thought they were cluttering the screen. its very easy to put them back in.

 

[DC123456789]

Well then perhaps you shouldn't have stated your reason for having no UHVs as "I can't find any". I personally think that unique UHVs make each civ far more interesting; aiming for the same goals every time gets boring after the first few times, and UHVs are one of the main reasons why I like RFC so much. Also, other people might want to try domination, or conquest, or even time victory; I don't see how they make the mod worse (seeing as it requires absolutely no effort for you to code), and balancing them isn't exactly an issue either (it's worked across all other RFC mods without any special coding...). I certainly don't dispute that the current method would be an interesting way to win; I'm just saying that restricting options in such a way that doesn't really affect gameplay (victories are more self-defined than anything else) doesn't really make all that much sense, in my opinion.

 

[ales_]

IMO, a modmod of RFC without UHV is not a modmod of RFC.

 

[srpt]

anyone who wants to code UHVs is welcome to. with ideas presented above, you only have 54 civs left. for the time being, I prefer to work on other aspects of the mod. I'd like to get all the civs in and balanced, finish the tech tree, add wonders, buildings and units for the other eras, flags for the civs etc.

I didn't say I couldn't find any UHVs. I said that I had decided on a different approach. your sample UHVs demonstrate the issue well: they aren't really historic because not enough is known about many of the civs and they aren't really unique because they are just variations on a few basic themes (conquer your neighbors, get culture, trade etc.).

I thought about whether or not to call it an rfc mod but rfc stands for Rise and Fall of Civilization and the civs in this mod rise and fall, so it seemed appropriate.

 

[DC123456789]

Closely following on the first decision were two others: no unique units, buildings or powers and no unique victory conditions. This may seem like a great loss but I can't see any way around it. There are well over 60 civs and many of them are very obscure.

Well, this rather clearly says that there are no UUs, UBs, UPs, or UHVs because you can't find any, and implies that you were disappointed too. As a matter of fact, I actually went ahead and did literally hours of research, and every one of those UHVs is based off a "fact" (there aren't many real facts, only legends in the stories, but that's all one has to work with anyway) about those Mahajanapadas. Besides, just because one can't find good UHVs for the Mahajanapadas doesn't mean that one can't find good ones for the other, less "obscure" civs; I am personally restricted by my lack of creativity, but I believe that this community can think of better, interesting ones. I only thought those up to show you that it is indeed possible to get decent UHVs on every civ.

And yes, ales_ is right. A mod is not deserving of being called an RFC modmod if it does not have UHVs. It's understandable if balance and completing the timeline is a bigger priority than UHVs at the moment, but I do hope that you eventually come around to see how much better UHVs make the mod.

 

[srpt]

in my last post I said "anyone who wants to code UHVs is welcome to". in case you didn't understand, that means I will include them if someone else writes them. I'm not interested in debating whether its right or wrong to not have UHVs or what I said in an earlier post, and I don't really care whether its called an rfc mod or not or what subforum this thread is in.

I do this for fun. writing all those UHVs would not be fun for me. its a lot of repetition of the same methods, easy to make errors, zero effect on the game. I am more interested in the big picture of the AI, balance, and how the map evolves. making small changes and watching the butterfly effect. when I started this project I knew I didn't want to get bogged down in UHVs so I left them aside. I like the victory conditions I came up with and in my opinion pursuing a flexible path to victory with 18 different winning combinations while playing any one of 64 civs is not exactly a boring option and it could be expanded to allow even more combinations.

still, I am happy to include UHVs if someone else wants to write them, so why don't you just do that since you've done the research already.

 

[DC123456789]

I think you may have missed this sentence:

It's understandable if balance and completing the timeline is a bigger priority than UHVs at the moment, but I do hope that you eventually come around to see how much better UHVs make the mod.

I'd be more than happy to write UHVs; it just may be a while before I get around to it, seeing as I have basically no experience modding Civ.

 

[srpt]

you couldn't find an easier way to learn about python, with all the examples around here.

 

[srpt]

rev 9

Sakas added as a playable civ, spawning at Taxila in 90bc. they might have been in already, can't remember.

horticulture tech is out. plantations now require calendar and most resources are visible from the start. this was because it was taking too far into the tech tree get the resources to attract companies in a reasonable timeframe.

elephant training now requires horsemanship OR irrigation. this provides an alternate tech path of the same cost for civs that have no use for horsemanship, such as all the southern civs.

many starting techs and starting units changed, mostly nerfed. the Indo Greeks are now the 1st civ to spawn with armor, in 210bc.

some new provinces: Maharashtra, Karnataka and Andhra broken up.

I have been playing with food a bit (didn't my mother tell me not to...). I have tried units built with food and without, citizens eating 2 food and 3, farms at +1 food and +2. right now its units are built with food, citizens eat 2 food, farms are +2 food. cottages are still -1 food. I want farms to be important, reflecting the overwhelming importance of agricultural at the time.

 

[DC123456789]

(Revision 8, so might have been fixed already)

The Achaemenids, Macedonians, and Parthians still don't invade Mulasthan in Lower Punjab. Also, the Sungas don't spawn at war with anyone, not even the Mauryans.

 

[srpt]

none of them have ever been scripted to attack Lower Punjab, but they sometimes take it later. I was just trying to leave something up to the AI.

the Sungas are scripted to declare war on the Mauryans so something is wrong.

I think I will remove the war on spawn between the Satavahanas and Mauryans because in my tests with the Satavahanas I got continually dogpiled by them along with Kalinka and Avanti.

also forgot to mention the regular SoI respawn method is now working for some civs: Gandhara, Avanti, Surasena, Kosala, Panchala, Kalinka, the Tamil civs and others.

 

[DC123456789]

Right now they never take it, always going straight to the head of the Ganges. It just looks kind of awkward on the map, since they end up controlling Upper Punjab and Sindh but not Lower Punjab in between.

 

[srpt]

rev 10

4 new civs: the Kushans, Pallavas, Kalabhras and Chutus

added the Tarnak and Dori rivers in Afghanistan and some forest in the mountains there

the Achaemenids are no longer scripted to attack Upper Punjab, but have both Punjabs in their war maps

more changers to starting units and techs

balance is a bit off right now. mainly the Satavahanas nearly always collapse and usually the Cholas, but sometimes the Pandyans go on a tear. I enlarged the Satavahanas core to help

 

[srpt]

rev 11

changed some too-advanced barbarian city garrisons

 

[srpt]

rev 12

prevented auto-razing of size 1 cities

moved Saka spawn to Sakala

gave the Kushans Marksmanship

gave extra gold and starting units to AI Nandas, Mauryans and Kushans

added Khandesh and Konkan to the Satavahanas core

corrected the fact that nearly all buildings had a 100% capture probability

balance is looking better up to 220ad. the Satavahanas are surviving, as are the Kushans, and there's usually 1 or 2 Ganges plain powerhouses

edit: the Satavahanas have made an amazing turnaround. in the last 220ad test they are in 1st place, ahead of a Magadhan respawn and the Kushans. they're also -24 Unstable/Collapsing, as they should be.

I'm thinking of adding Rama's bridge, which was said to be passable on foot up to the 15th century.

 

[srpt]

rev 13

I realized the Chutus lose their core to the more important Kadambas very soon after spawning so I took them out. they were vassals of the Satavahanas that did not survive their downfall.

that means the Vakatakas, the Satavahana vassals that successfully rebelled, are playable now.

next up: the Guptas

 

[yurisusuki]

What is the timeline? 3000(?)-????

 

[srpt]

900BC to 1750AD roughly. the end date isn't exactly determined yet but I think the last playable civ will be the Marathas in 1680AD.

 

[srpt]

rev 14

added the Pallavas, Kalabhras, Vakatakas, Guptas, Kadambas and Gangas, as well as the Sassanid invasion