Welp, did the SE thing the other day with Barre. Hm. Full disclosure - Gemini game, everything standard, no rush to win time. Without Student Aid, SE doesn't seem like it'd be worth bothering with, even using Barre. The main attraction for me was using Growers for food growth instead of Vertical Farms and then accenting it with Food Conversion. It's fantastic with Student Aid. Not so much without. The main problem is that Organics is hella expensive tech. With Bionics, you get to Biowells for easy food and you get free tech. With Organics, you get a cute SE after a pretty long time - not at all comparable to EctoPod in its first version. The great thing is that you can convert multiple land cities into food hubs once you're done so you can get insane size cities if you really want to, and Barre's Specialist trait doesn't even require you to pay much attention to tiles since you'll almost completely be working building slots - just put it anywhere you please.
A Touch of Nostalgia - a Purity Specialist Economy guide
- Thread starter GAGA Extrem
- Start date
GAGA Extrem
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2008
- Messages
- 1,589
I am still not sure why people are so obsessed with food from techs. Setting the capital to food conversion after the basic buildings are done provides enough food to grow each city to 15+ pop without a single tile improvement. The science loss from converting food in the early and mid game is certainly smaller than making a tech detour - and once the first few Biowells are up, cities become self-sufficient anyway.
The entire reason that's even a thing is because some people thought that doing things the Civ V way isn't good enough for a new game. The point isn't merely to win - it's to have fun. For some people, that's winning as fast as possible. For me, it's finding many ways to arrange an economy; or finding power or tech interactions.
I didn't like that they removed Generator play hard, but Specialists being good (without great people) is one alternative way to play. Experience brings informed ideas, and if we "balance" a new enjoyable way to play, it creates a richer game. That's how these games evolve.
As a result of play, it becomes obvious that some things are better than others and how they play - tile outputs all being buffed by latter game tech, virtues, and agreements means that in order to keep up, a play for a Specialist economy using Student Aid has to compensate with more yield.
Right now, only Barre can do that. As you mentioned, Food conversion is more convenient, and it's superior to what are effectively 4 food tiles from expensive buildings. However, with Barre, they're 6 food tiles; 6 food, 2 energy with the right virtue. That's competitive. Science is 2 Food, 5 Science, 2 energy. Still competitive, though it's obvious there that the Growers need buffing - they should probably be upped to 3 food, so even normal Civs on Student Aid can use the slots for growing! In all these cases, the notable limitation vis a vis other kinds of Econ arrangements is the need for specialist buildings, and they each have a tile cap.
Engineer slots are 2 hammers - effectively 2 food 2 hammers on Student Aid. It's a horrible tile. They're good for early game - not bad for extra production, but a late game Specialist economy needs a little more oomph. A hard internal TR focus with agreements and virtues and traits will generate far more. And conversion will prioritize tiles values and TR outputs. Barre's is 2 food, 4 hammers. Not bad, but completely horrible compared to Scientists.
I didn't like that they removed Generator play hard, but Specialists being good (without great people) is one alternative way to play. Experience brings informed ideas, and if we "balance" a new enjoyable way to play, it creates a richer game. That's how these games evolve.
As a result of play, it becomes obvious that some things are better than others and how they play - tile outputs all being buffed by latter game tech, virtues, and agreements means that in order to keep up, a play for a Specialist economy using Student Aid has to compensate with more yield.
Right now, only Barre can do that. As you mentioned, Food conversion is more convenient, and it's superior to what are effectively 4 food tiles from expensive buildings. However, with Barre, they're 6 food tiles; 6 food, 2 energy with the right virtue. That's competitive. Science is 2 Food, 5 Science, 2 energy. Still competitive, though it's obvious there that the Growers need buffing - they should probably be upped to 3 food, so even normal Civs on Student Aid can use the slots for growing! In all these cases, the notable limitation vis a vis other kinds of Econ arrangements is the need for specialist buildings, and they each have a tile cap.
Engineer slots are 2 hammers - effectively 2 food 2 hammers on Student Aid. It's a horrible tile. They're good for early game - not bad for extra production, but a late game Specialist economy needs a little more oomph. A hard internal TR focus with agreements and virtues and traits will generate far more. And conversion will prioritize tiles values and TR outputs. Barre's is 2 food, 4 hammers. Not bad, but completely horrible compared to Scientists.
groovetrain
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2015
- Messages
- 1
I've been lurking these forums for a couple of years now, and never saw the need to create an account before today. Last night, I got my first Apollo victory following this guide exactly. I had a great land start on a frigid terran world (I use randomized maps), built to five cities, and had a promised land victory around turn 200 or so (didn't look). I never needed to build more cities, and all five ended up over size 30. So, thank you!
War-mongering_Child
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2022
- Messages
- 25
Tried this strategy on Soyuz, turn 129 and I am getting 933 science per turn. This is bonkers, good strategy OP!
Time to try and make it work on Apollo, will need to tweak some stuff for a military focus.
Time to try and make it work on Apollo, will need to tweak some stuff for a military focus.
