A Weirdo's Guide To Being Holy

Atrius

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Nov 2, 2005
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Well, it took me about 10 seperate attempts, after carefully picking a different leader each time, but I finally managed to found every religion before the AI got a chance to.

And now I present with my rough guide on how to follow in my strange yet benefiical footsteps. But first, The Holy Cities of India (I knew I should have waited to build my second city :()



Firstly, some general tips:

1. Choose a leader that gives you Mysticism as a starting tech, this really does help to get the lead on the AI.
2. Although obvious, you should just aim at learning the technlogies that give you the religion. Another way to get them faster is to research every other that leads to those techs, it helps to reduce the research requires at times.
3. Do not reduce the Research meter! You do not need gold in the early game!

Now, here's what I did.

Map Type: Archipeligo
Map Size: Huge
AIs: 10
Difficulty: Settler (I am still a n00b)
Sea Level: Normal

I started as India, with the leader that is Spiritual and Organsied (why do names always elude me when I need them?). I helped greatly that I started near a river and a coast. As soon as Dehli was built, I put production straight into building a Barracks (builidng Workers right at the start is usually not a good idea.) I usually wait until my town is of size 4+ before building Workers and 6+ before I found new cities.

My first research was Meditation as it only requires 7 turns of research. During this time my town has reach size 2 and was half way to 3. By the time Mysticism was complete, my town was size 3, so I research Polytheism, which takes 8 turns to complete. At about 4 turns left, I build my first Fast Worker (these guys really make a difference early game). Also, my cultural borders have expanded twice.

Once Polytheism was researched, I decided to veer of the religious track and research Pottey (Granaries really do make a difference in the amount of time cities take to grow). This only took 6 turns as my town was at size 6 and my Fast Worker had improved most of the surrounding region.

Once Pottery was done, I immediately changed the production of the city to Granary and queued a Settler. Also, I researched Masonry to help get Monotheism. During this time, I was building the Oracle . When Masonry was done, I began to research Montheism whilst the Oracle was still being built (production was slow, but growth was moderate). Since the Oracle still had I while to go, I researched Priesthood (3 turns).

Several turns later, the Oracle was complete and I choose Code of Laws as my free tech. At this time, I was researching Theology. This took some time, so by now my second town was size 3 and had a Granary. It was not long before it reached size for and a Fast Worker was production there. Also, I was building the Temples and Monasteries in my capitol.

Two turns later, the Japanese found me, and I made peace. Three turns after that, Confusianism and Buddhism spread to their closest city. Two turns after that, Buddhism was in three more of their cities as well as a Greek city below me.

After Theology was completed, I relaxed a little and built libraries in both cities after researching Literature. I began to research "easy" techs, the ones that took the least amount of time to research. I researched about three off-track techs before aiming towards Divine Right. This took some time (19), so I built Temples in my second city and Wonders in the Capitol.

After Divine Right, I aimed straight for Philosophy. This took 20 turns, so I improved on my cities some more and continued to improve their cultural aspects. Missionaries were not needed, due to the two Great Prophets I had born during the long research periods, both building Shrines in the Capitol.

Once Philosophy was complete, I aimed for the "easy" techs once more and just began to watch the relgions spread like wildfire.

I have learnt not to do this on Archipeligo, as Culture spread well over water. My next challenge is to create THE Holy City.

Enjoy the story, may the Gods be with you.
 
Interesting stuff, but at settler you really have a research advantage over the AI, so you should be able out-tech the AI easily. Having all religions shouldnt be impossible.

Trying to get one or all religions on prince or higher would seem like the real challenge. I would be even more interested to read a guide to being Holy on higher levels.
 
Y'know, you don't need religion. Just have your neighbours found them for you, and take them. Ask Saladin or Peter about Napoleon's Axeman Rush (except you can't ask Saladin any more... ;) )
 
I ended up with 5 with a non-spiritual civ (Romans) on prince level. Wasn't far off getting a sixth. Saladin beating me to Buddhism some time in the 4th millenium BC was the only one I didn't get close to getting.

Americans got Hinduism about 2 turns before I got it. That was after starting the game by getting a couple of worker techs before deciding I wanted Judaism - and nearly got to Polytheism first on the way. The first religion I founded was Judaism though. Then I missed Confucianism by 4 turns. The Oracle got me Theology, and Christianity. I then self-researched Philosophy to get Taoism while a great prophet almost completed research on Divine Right leaving me about 5 turns to complete that for religion #4. Religion #5 was Hinduism once I took out the 2-city Americans who I boxed in with my second city (perhaps the most shocking thing was they never even bothered asking for open borders).

OK, so I cheated a bit on Hinduism, but in the right circumstances (none/one spiritual civs, Stonehenge for great prophets, Oracle for free tech), it's possible to get 4, 5, 6 or even 7 civs

I'd also argue a need for chariots early on to keep barbarians/neighbours under control. I tried a similar game and got the first 3 religions but had no military at all to speak of and as a result got turned over very easily by the French.
 
Religions can be a powerhouse and one of the best features of ´civ4 as it gives you some alternative strategies. For instance I have been playing on a game today with saladin (noble) and I have 6 religions and and 5 shrines (nr 6 will come with time) which equals a large plus economally, just spread your religions in all your cities and in as many foreign cities as possible and your 100% research rate will be insured for the rest of the game. Saladin is just a true prophet monster :D
 
Atrius said:
Well, it took me about 10 seperate attempts, after carefully picking a different leader each time, but I finally managed to found every religion before the AI got a chance to.

And now I present with my rough guide on how to follow in my strange yet benefiical footsteps. But first, The Holy Cities of India (I knew I should have waited to build my second city :()



Firstly, some general tips:

1. Choose a leader that gives you Mysticism as a starting tech, this really does help to get the lead on the AI.
2. Although obvious, you should just aim at learning the technlogies that give you the religion. Another way to get them faster is to research every other that leads to those techs, it helps to reduce the research requires at times.
3. Do not reduce the Research meter! You do not need gold in the early game!

Now, here's what I did.

Map Type: Archipeligo
Map Size: Huge
AIs: 10
Difficulty: Settler (I am still a n00b)
Sea Level: Normal

I started as India, with the leader that is Spiritual and Organsied (why do names always elude me when I need them?). I helped greatly that I started near a river and a coast. As soon as Dehli was built, I put production straight into building a Barracks (builidng Workers right at the start is usually not a good idea.) I usually wait until my town is of size 4+ before building Workers and 6+ before I found new cities.

My first research was Meditation as it only requires 7 turns of research. During this time my town has reach size 2 and was half way to 3. By the time Mysticism was complete, my town was size 3, so I research Polytheism, which takes 8 turns to complete. At about 4 turns left, I build my first Fast Worker (these guys really make a difference early game). Also, my cultural borders have expanded twice.

Once Polytheism was researched, I decided to veer of the religious track and research Pottey (Granaries really do make a difference in the amount of time cities take to grow). This only took 6 turns as my town was at size 6 and my Fast Worker had improved most of the surrounding region.

Once Pottery was done, I immediately changed the production of the city to Granary and queued a Settler. Also, I researched Masonry to help get Monotheism. During this time, I was building the Oracle . When Masonry was done, I began to research Montheism whilst the Oracle was still being built (production was slow, but growth was moderate). Since the Oracle still had I while to go, I researched Priesthood (3 turns).

Several turns later, the Oracle was complete and I choose Code of Laws as my free tech. At this time, I was researching Theology. This took some time, so by now my second town was size 3 and had a Granary. It was not long before it reached size for and a Fast Worker was production there. Also, I was building the Temples and Monasteries in my capitol.

Two turns later, the Japanese found me, and I made peace. Three turns after that, Confusianism and Buddhism spread to their closest city. Two turns after that, Buddhism was in three more of their cities as well as a Greek city below me.

After Theology was completed, I relaxed a little and built libraries in both cities after researching Literature. I began to research "easy" techs, the ones that took the least amount of time to research. I researched about three off-track techs before aiming towards Divine Right. This took some time (19), so I built Temples in my second city and Wonders in the Capitol.

After Divine Right, I aimed straight for Philosophy. This took 20 turns, so I improved on my cities some more and continued to improve their cultural aspects. Missionaries were not needed, due to the two Great Prophets I had born during the long research periods, both building Shrines in the Capitol.

Once Philosophy was complete, I aimed for the "easy" techs once more and just began to watch the relgions spread like wildfire.

I have learnt not to do this on Archipeligo, as Culture spread well over water. My next challenge is to create THE Holy City.

Enjoy the story, may the Gods be with you.

I managed to get 6 out of 7 of the religions in my current "Prince" land. Currently, I am in the 4th position out of the 5 civs and earning 40 plus gold per turn at around 12XX AD. The civ leader I used is Ghandi and I certainly found that India is the best to use to grab as much religion as possible.

Spiritual means you can switch your religion every five turns.
Industrial means you can build wonders easier and this helps gain GPP.

The religion that I missed out is Taoism as I spent some time researching for other technologies. (Too confident that I will get all religion)
So far on the map I have managed to get all to become Hindu except for the civilisation that got Taoism, and the civ is currently at the 1st position.

Certainly not sure if I can win diplomatically as I certainly lacks in other area of winning except that. Slightly different from you is that I get Theology as my free tech from oracle since it requires more research points.

One thing to note is that the civic that u are looking for is "Representation", it certainly helps to get tech faster and keep your ppl happy. Thus I switch to Pyramid after I complete the oracle.

Getting to tech "Alphabet" is extremely important as you can trade for technologies that will help you (such as fishing, pottery, bronze working... ) since you are researching all religion technology. I guess the fallback is you can trade religion technology to the other civilizations only and maybe this is the reason why I fail to get Taoism in the end. I don't feel like using my GP to research technology also, but after the Taoism incident, I used one to put some points into getting "Islam".

Slavery is a must! It will help you get things faster and since representation have 3 smiley faces, this certainly helps. Drawback is your population cannot grow much. I only have 3 cities and I believe I lose out a lot in this aspect. Will try to snatch 4 cities next try.

Overall, I find that the religious way is a hard way. Will update after I play finish my current game.
 
if u are trying to go war, you either
1) stick to as little cities as possible so the founding city stacks (where little cities reduce overall production in the first place)
2) just get 1 and hope it naturally spread fast enough

i find it chaotic when you have all different religion in each of your cities. if i found enough (say 2 or 3) religion, i usually refrain from the tech that gives religion until AI gets them.

unless you really like the shrine the great prophet builds... finding more religion doesn't really help that much. unless you are a missionary fanatic... new religion often found in new/border cities. which means the most spreaded religion while in your heart of your empire will probably not beat that new religion you just got to get to your enemy. then they got a different state religion and hate you for giving that religion to them.......

----------------this is where the game being so stupid about religion ----------------

the first time, i thought of cultural victory, i thought it'd be cool if all 3 legendary cities have all 7 religions and have 7 temples. turns out the culture temple gives are really insignificant. at least not significant enough to make you KEEP DOING THE MISSIONARY JOB! it's a pain in the ass really. even if you build a missionary in 2 turns and that you have railroad. anyway. the only essentail part for cultural victory, i only got 4 words for you: FREE SPEECH - Eiffle Tower. (at all cost, get free speech first, you can get it real early if you focus all your energy to it)

p.s. there was one game... the strange spanish missionarized all but 2 of my cities (as i was wondering how it got spreaded so quickly) to buddism. and there were at least , at least 15 of them. god did i not thank her for it.
-i had the option to wage war with more experienced soldier, or
-most of my city can now build at least 1 and usually 2+ temples
i chose the latter. if you followed any of my 25 post in these 2 days, i dont like die rolling at all. i then flipped all spanish city (and roman's) except their capital to my course. how ironic

p.s.2. and another thing. i find it funny that you missed taoism. the most difficult to get is actually buddism AND hinduism together. they are both 1 tech from mysticism. of the 6 AI, any one who'd do a tech other that the one u try to get first will be ahead of you for the other one. unless i guess you get to choose all 6 leaders and make sure none of them would do religion (i suspect religion are all of their aim early on, they found religion so fast!)
 
I never even try for Buddhism; the only time I might think about it is if I get a very commerce-rich starting position (gold nearby on a river, for example). Other than that, I head for Hinduism first.
 
You really, really want to found all 7 religions at the higher difficulty levels? Why? Who knows. How? Well, that’s what I set out to discover. (Note that I am attempting ALL 7 religions, not just 5 or 6.)

My premise: The computer cheats, so minor cheating will be allowed. First, the setting: map = terra, size = huge, all victories are enabled (incase it makes a difference how the computer plays), 18 civilizations (to make sure that I don’t beat the computer by fluke), and finally...difficulty = emperor.

I played a culture that has the traits of philosophical and industrious, unique unit = fast worker, starting techs were The Wheel and Mysticism.

I chose each computer opponent to be an opponent without the starting tech of Mysticism (the cheating bit). When the game started I saved it and then opened up the world builder to look at my situation.

The good news: My settler was on a plains/hill tile (the only way to get 2 production in your city tile), there were plenty of goodies all around me, and a river ran through my territory.

The bad news: I was in the middle of a continent that was willed with all the computer opponents...literally surrounded by the enemy. All the computer opponents had gained the techs Hunting and Archery due to the diff level (at least they didn’t get Mysticism). I turned off world builder and re-loaded the game.

First Try

My starting city was producing 4F, 3P, and 2C which I figured would be a fairly average starting position for most games. I immediately began to build a warrior and to scout the terrain with my other warrior. When given the option I started researching Meditation. The first hut gave me a scout...sweet. Second hut gave a map. My warrior was done and I saw that I could build one more before my city grew to a size of 2. I did just that exploring all the time. Huts gave me another scout, more map, and MASONRY!!!

I thought I had it in the bag because being given Masonry is a huge step saving loads of time. (For whatever reason Fraxis decided that you had to know how to build a wall before you could believe in the existence of only one God...go figure.) When I founded Buddhism I again checked to see where the computer players were at. About 1/3 of them had researched Mysticism. Uh oh.

I tried to get Polytheism first but failed. I restarted.

Lessons learned: Don’t convert you civilization over to the first religion you found. Rather, wait until you have a sufficient tech lead. And you will probably need more then 2C for income from your first city to pull it off. Because every cities tile will only produce 1C (unless starting on certain resources), and the max for a tile without improvements seems to be 2C, the practical max commerce seems to be 3C.

Second Try

With the above lessons under my belt I tried again. This time I changed my starting position a bit to give me 1) an additional commerce per turn and 2) the gems bonus in some nearby hills for a boost to tech after building a worker.

I did pretty much the same stuff as before, except when I founded Buddhism I didn’t make it a state religion, just kept researching. This time the huts gave me 2 techs, but neither of them were part of the path I was following ? When I founded Hinduism I thought I was fairly ahead of everyone else so I made it the state religion and started researching mining so I could take advantage of those gems. After mining I went strait for Monotheism. I missed it by 3 (!) turns. Then I realized I was late for work and got a glare from my wife as I raced out the door with no lunch (serves me right).

So, in the final analysis I would say that I think it is possible to found all the religions at a higher diff level, but you need 1) a pretty good starting position 2) at least 3 commerce per turn with just your first population point 3) good resources to take advantage of after gaining your first worker and 4) to wait until you are sure you are far ahead of other computer players before spending even just one turn gaining a state religion.
 
atog said:
turns out the culture temple gives are really insignificant. at least not significant enough to make you KEEP DOING THE MISSIONARY JOB!

One of the types of religious buildings gives you +50% culture. I don't know if this is cumulative (i.e. if you have one for each of your religions do you get +50% for each, or even (((original culture +50%)+50%)+50%)) but even if it isn't, it is at least worth having 1 religion. Also, even if other civilizations dislike you as a result of having a non-state religion, if you get a great prophet to build whichever religious building it is that prophets build you get money for every city that contains the respective religion- even if it isn't the state religion- and are able to see into enemy cities containing that religion without need for spies. So religion is useful, and if you have all of them you are in complete control of it - or at least as much control as anyone can be.
 
The cathedral-type buildings give +50% culture, and all culture pluses are cumulative. Having a few of these guys helps a lot, having all 7 is great but seems like overkill (going from 0 to 2 is 100% bump, from 2 to 4 is 50% bump, 4 to 6 is 33% bump). To build them, you need a few temples (the number depends on map size, I think), so the temples are worthwhile, even if you don't want the 1 culture or happiness.
 
Frewfrux said:
Then I realized I was late for work and got a glare from my wife as I raced out the door with no lunch (serves me right).


Lol:lol: I just wanted to put my two cents in, but first I have to say that my wife found that comment hilarious (and she also said it definitely served you right...lol ;)).

Anyway, back to the thread. I definitely agree with Frewfrux though about how much commerce you'd need in order to be able to successfully get on the ball with founding all 7 religions. If you don't have the commerce boost right there at the beginning for your capital, it's not even worth trying to go for all 7...either restart or play a different way (of course, I've also never tried to "seed" my competition...so that probably makes a huge difference...).
 
I don't understand how we can research all 7 religion techs. Let's say we want to research meditation before any AI.

If we have Mysticism, it takes us 7 turns to do so. However, An AI may also have Mysticism therefore it takes the AI 7 (or less) turns to complete. How do we beat the AI?

Thanks

Peter
 
I find it best to play a civ that starts with Mysticism & play against 1 or 2 AIs, neither of whom starts with Mysticism. (On larger maps, with more civs, chances increase that at least one AI will start with Mys. That's one reason I like to play a Duel or Tiny map.) Nowadays I tend to play as Saladin since he is Spiritual & Philosophical. I like to found all 7 rels, increase my GPP, & have a monopoly (or near monopoly) on Wonders.
 
Atrius said:
My next challenge is to create THE Holy City.
I have done just that, as shown in the image I have attached here. You can do this by having only one city (whether you have OCC on or not); playing at a low difficulty helps as well.
 

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Roxtar said:
I have done just that, as shown in the image I have attached here. You can do this by having only one city (whether you have OCC on or not); playing at a low difficulty helps as well.
All religions founded, but stonehenge still hasn't been built? Looks like worldbuilder to me...
 
Actually, I played at Settler. I got my workers from goodie huts. I cottaged & mined my city. I researched mostly religious techs. I self-researched Meditation, Polytheism, Monotheism, Code of Laws & Theology. This game was a rare instance where I'd build Oracle before Stonehenge; I chose Philosophy as my free tech. I got my Prophet points from Oracle & from a Buddhist temple. I used my Prophet to discover Divine Right. So there IS a way to do this w/o WB.
 
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