Abe Lincoln's traits

[csar508]

, since Abe is known as a uniter .

if you live in the north

 

[PolskiKrol]

I would bet half a nickel on philosophical, though.

Don't you mean penny?

 

[Quagga]

One more thought about Charismatic: As you know, in the game, it provides an experience adavantage. I think many would agree that the North got better military-wise during the war (perhaps because the lousy generals were weeded-out).

I don't see how Protective is the right choice. It is the counter to Aggressive. I believe some refer to the American Civil War as the War of Northern Aggression, which in a sense it was. The Union wanted to eliminate the Confederacy (and succeeded, of course). Protective does not fit.

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

Above all, philosophical.

His 2nd presidential inagural address was possibly the most influencial speech in American history. Founder of the Republican party (Conservatives). Gettysburg's "Four score and seven years ago...". Wasnt it his plan for the south, his philosophy for the south...that got him killed?

I struggle with the second. At first I thought Charismatic, but many people wanted to sign a peace treaty with the South...hardly a full following that Napoleon (the ultimate charismatic general) had. I dont know about Industrious...it took years before the full industrial advantage happened. This is not like FDR's "arsenal of democracy" that was ready to flood Europe from the entry of Americans in WW2.

 

[Virulent]

Charismatic is a must, I'm not sure what the second could be. You could argue valid points for Agr/Pro/Ind/Org. Maybe even Phi or Cre.

 

[thenooblet22]

I don't see how Protective is the right choice. It is the counter to Aggressive. I believe some refer to the American Civil War as the War of Northern Aggression, which in a sense it was. The Union wanted to eliminate the Confederacy (and succeeded, of course). Protective does not fit.

Okay, we can all point fingers who actually started the war (cough Fort Sumter cough), but in the end, he tried to "preserve" the Union. So it fits.

 

[ParkCungHee]

His 2nd presidential inagural address was possibly the most influencial speech in American history. Founder of the Republican party (Conservatives). Gettysburg's "Four score and seven years ago...". Wasnt it his plan for the south, his philosophy for the south...that got him killed?

Actually no, his plan for the south was much more leniant than his successors. He was killed simply because of what he represented.

I'm going to take my bet on Spiritual Industrial, or Charasmatic Industrial.

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

Actually I'm not so sure you can say that good ole honest abe was charismatic. The reason being is that many of his speaches were ridiculed in his time. The Gettysburg address was ripped apart by the Chicago (Tribune?) newspaper the morning after the speech was made.

Then you must also keep in mind how despite all his early efforts, the South still rebelled against his agenda which meant he could not have been too charasmatic. If he was actually that charasmatic he could have made them buy into his agenda and save the war. In all honesty, you see more warmongering generals and dictators throughout history who are much more charasmatic and that's why they are able to get away with trying to conquer the world with their own people. For example the Germans were brainwashed during WWII with the nazi nationality agenda, and as previously said Nepolean was well admired within France. Then there was also Alexander the Great. His conquests stretched the farthest regions of the known world with non stop strait conquest for 2 decades and still his soldiers followed him loyaly among every difficult step. It wasn't until near the end of his life before he died did the struggles of never ending war start to take it's toll on their loyalty to Alexander.

So I would say that Abe isn't nescessarily charasmatic by any means at all. I would go with something else. Phylisophical is a definate trait I think. He was most certainly that. And that was the problem. He had a hard time getting most people of his time to buy into those phylosophies regardless of how great they were.

I mean I can see how people would mistake him for being charasmatic and all beings how he saved the Union. But for reasons just stated, I'm not sure I believe that.

 

[csar508]

Then you must also keep in mind how despite all his early efforts, the South still rebelled against his agenda which meant he could not have been too charasmatic. If he was actually that charasmatic he could have made them buy into his agenda and save the war

Which efforts do you speak of? S carolina left the union( December 20th, 1860)before lincoln took office(March 4th,1861), as did six other states. During this time Buchanan was president.

 

[benjamin28]

Almost totally agree with RulerofDaPeople: as said many times in this forum, you must be more or less charismatic to be a leader, but only some great men shone as impressive orators. Not Lincoln's case, I would say, because of the reasons exposed by Ruler.
Philosophical would fit appropriately, as well as Protective or Industrious.
The combo Pro/Cha is already used by Churchill, and I don't image two traits so correct as the ones used for this incredible gentleman.

 

[flyingchicken]

I second the guess/bet of Abraham Lincoln being Protective/Charismatic. For one, he'll be the first military-oriented American leader(defensive bonus and experience "boost"). Another thing is, Navy Seals coming in with Drill I would be quite interesting.

 

[Thedrin]

In that case will he share traits with Churchill or will Churchill be changed to something else?

 

[Martinus]

I hope they don't choose Emancipation as his favorite civic. I think most of us are old enough to know what the real score was.

You mean old enough to be senile enough to believe in confederate revisionism?

 

[jeremiahrounds]

I have to ask... how many of these leaders werent charismatic? I know a few but come on its like a prerequisite to even make the list. So I mean to be charismatic on this "short list" you would have to be uber insane charismatic. I think alexander for example was off the charts on normal levels of charisma.

I guess to make charisma you have to invoke something besides speeches. You need to look at the abilities:
+1 happiness per city
-25% XP needed for unit promotions
+1 happiness from Monument, Broadcast Tower

I am not sure any of these abilities apply to abe?
His rule wasnt an especially happy time [or happier then you might expect given the circumstances] though you might argue the unit promotions apply. I think the south prolly had bigger charismatic merits then the north since they stayed happy in a lost cause and managed to pull out battles where they were outnumbered.

 

[flyingchicken]

Well, I guess that point is logical. Churchill, Hannibal, Alexander...they were all great motivators. So, I guess Abraham should be Spiritual/Philosophical, for he is the founder of the Abrahamic faiths.

...er, um, I guess Abraham Lincoln could be Philosophical/Protective. Philosophical because of the whole ideological democracy thing, and protective because Navy Seals with Drill I will be SO COOL.

 

[Kietharr]

Ind/phi may be good for him then, he was charasmatic but the northern army was generally made up of drafted, inexperienced men, and those barracks didn't keep the citizens too happy in the north. Ind/Phi may be a god combo, but it does fit him.

 

[Quagga]

How about Philosophical because of all the monuments that resulted from the Civil War?

I don't buy Philosophical, because the ideas he communicated were the same ones promoted by many of the Framers (the writers of the US Constitution) and, before that, the writers of the Declaration of Independence. Further, his time in office was not known as a period of great religiosity, artistry, science, commerce or anything else that could be associated with increased generation of CivIV Great People.

I could give a nod to Imperialistic, for the increased Great General formation.

Charismatic/Imperialistic I think has not been used, and could be a powerful combination. I like it even better than Cha/Ind that I suggested previously.

 

[Scaramanga]

Charismatic/Imperialistic I think has not been used, and could be a powerful combination. I like it even better than Cha/Ind that I suggested previously.

You like Charismatic/Imperialistic? Try Cyrus in Warlords some time .

 

[csar508]

I don't buy Philosophical, because the ideas he communicated were the same ones promoted by many of the Framers (the writers of the US Constitution) and, before that, the writers of the Declaration of Independence. .

you mean the ones that owned slaves?

 

[csar508]

. Further, his time in office was not known as a period of great religiosity, artistry, science, .

The American Cival War is known as a time of great advancemets in military science.(at least in the U.S.)