Abusing the AI

[libfud]

So, I just wrapped up an Emperor game after a fierce struggle keeping a gunboat diplomacy Greece from winnning the World Leader vote for two rounds as a Freedom Korea. I was playing on a standard sized tiny islands map, so my science wound up being a bit nerfed because I was only able to get my capital to be a respectable size (36 pop at the end of the game), while my other cities were struggling for food/hammers. I did, however, get crazy gpt by the end, over 620 gpt with a golden age, which on epic with the policy in commerce that discounts buying things by 25% let me buy a spaceship part every five turns. However, I noticed that Venice was sitting on a war chest of 30k gold, so I made a declaration of friendship with him (luckily he went freedom too and we had a solid relationship all game long, aside from him backstabbing a lot of people... diplomacy is complicated when there are 22 AIs involved), and traded all his gold for all my gpt. I then bought the last 4 parts I needed simultaneously, airlifted them to my capital, and then won the game a couple turns after the trade was made.

IMO, this is a huge abuse of the AI. From the perspective of the AI, of course I made an offer that was seemingly insane to refuse, since he would technically get a little more out of it, and for whatever reason they prefer gpt to having the gold... I wish he had been using that gold to snatch city states from Greece (even if it would cost like 5-6k per city state that he would steal) than just sit on it. How hard would it be to implement a check during trad negotiations to refuse absurd amounts of gold if the one geting the gold has the freedom ideology? Do you guys exploit the AI like this, or consider it cheesy?

 

[GenuineRisk]

Enrico didn't have a realistic chance of winning, so he gave you a loan. (30k gold is nothing compared to the power of Gunboat Diplomacy and Hellenic League) I don't consider that abuse at all - it's just a trade. I occasionally get loans to buy SS parts, and many others do the same. Of course, if you don't want to use loans, (but as you said, it would have been "insane to refuse") you don't have to...

For me, cheese is more like settling a city near your borders and donating it to an AI to tourism bomb it or repeatedly selling stuff and backstabbing friends on the last turn to buy SS parts/WC votes.

 

[stormtrooper412]

That's pretty much how all of my Freedom SVs go

 

[beetle]

...traded all his gold for all my gpt. I then bought the last 4 parts I needed simultaneously, airlifted them to my capital, and then won the game a couple turns after the trade was made.

That describes a very common end-game. It seems anti-climatic to me, but prolly because I am not usually competent enough to have sufficient gpt to pull it off.

 

[Chum]

IMO, this is a huge abuse of the AI. From the perspective of the AI, of course I made an offer that was seemingly insane to refuse, since he would technically get a little more out of it, and for whatever reason they prefer gpt to having the gold... I wish he had been using that gold to snatch city states from Greece (even if it would cost like 5-6k per city state that he would steal) than just sit on it. How hard would it be to implement a check during trad negotiations to refuse absurd amounts of gold if the one geting the gold has the freedom ideology? Do you guys exploit the AI like this, or consider it cheesy?

So wait a minute.

You conducted some activities which you consider to be exploiting the AI and want a fix to them?

Stop abusing the AI if you find it reprehensible.

 

[reddishrecue]

People in YouTube often trade with the AI like this and sell resources to the AI for a 5 6 or 7 gpt and it isnt considered AI abuse. Its a good way to make gpt way before currency.

 

[Nares]

and traded all his gold for all my gpt.

Is that what he requested in return for all his gold?

He may have settled for less.

I might consider it cheesy, but not an exploit. You need to work to improve relations with the AI to even access their gold reserves, and I would assume further improving relations would afford you better exchange rates.

And, as you said, he should have been using the gold to buy city states, but for whatever AI failing was the cause, he wasn't doing so.

As for how hard it would be to adjust the AI as you suggest, with a check against selling gold when the recipient has purchasing discounts, it's probably not hard at all. If you know whatever programming/scripting language(s) are involved, it would probably be a good change to make for your first attempt at a mod.

For me, cheese is more like settling a city near your borders and donating it to an AI to tourism bomb it

That's cheese.

or repeatedly selling stuff and backstabbing friends on the last turn to buy SS parts/WC votes.

That's exploit.

 

[beetle]

Is that what he requested in return for all his gold?
He may have settled for less.

The AI lump sum for player payments conversion rate is 51 gold for 2 gpt. You can take less of course, but not more. The conversion rate in the other direction is worse, but I don't do that one much.

...and I would assume further improving relations would afford you better exchange rates.

Nope. You need DOF status for lump sum for gpt trades anyway -- so by definition relations are good -- and 51:2 is the best you can ever get.

And, as you said, he should have been using the gold to buy city states, but for whatever AI failing was the cause, he wasn't doing so.

Yes, thank goodness the AIs are often content just to sit on their money. Games would be much harder otherwise.

 

[libfud]

So wait a minute.

You conducted some activities which you consider to be exploiting the AI and want a fix to them?

Stop abusing the AI if you find it reprehensible.

I did it because it was 3 hours past when I wanted to go to bed and I just wanted to end the game as quickly as I could. Just because I recognize that something is cheesy doesn't mean I won't prevent myself from doing it. I try to not do stuff like stealing workers from city states though, because I *do* think that is cheesy as hell.

 

[chris.]

So wait a minute.

You conducted some activities which you consider to be exploiting the AI and want a fix to them?

Stop abusing the AI if you find it reprehensible.

Any abuse of the AI in Civ is fair game. It's the developers' fault for leaving such a glaring hole in the AI. The AI is supposed to impede your path to victory. I think it's fair to point out and be a little miffed at abusing the AI like this even being possible.

 

[Chum]

Any abuse of the AI in Civ is fair game. It's the developers' fault for leaving such a glaring hole in the AI. The AI is supposed to impede your path to victory. I think it's fair to point out and be a little miffed at abusing the AI like this even being possible.

Sure. If it was 2009 and we were talking about this and balance changes were still being made or the AI being improved.

But it's not. It's 2015 and this game is done - the game is finished, no more changes will likely occur to it. The AI is not going to be changed or improved through any effort of Firaxis.

Therefore, it's safe to assume that if you consider activities to exploits, then don't do them. There's no one else to police your actions but you in a single player game.