Activating an enemy MPP without attacking?

[Ranos]

Here's the situation. France and India have been at war for centuries with France slowly taking India's cities. India has three cities left.

England decides to declare war on me. They have two cities that border mine which were taken during our combined war on Carthage earlier in the game. France separates England and me. I take those two cities and begin building my forces for a full attack on England. England brings France into the war and a few turns after that, India joins too. Now both France and India are small civs and I am the biggest in the game. France is falling easily and I am starting to take the cities that they took from India.

India signs an MPP with Greece. I have not sent a troop into India's territory, only atttacked a few of its units that were in my territory. At the end of my turn after they signed their MPP, that message comes up that says their MPP has been activated.

Here is my question. Why would the MPP activate when I never set foot into Indian territory?

 

[huh?]

Interested in the replies as well. Similiar situation happened to me.

 

[alamo]

Bombarding enemy territory counts.

Any naval attack, too.

Do you have auto-bombard going?

 

[Colonel]

if you attack there troops inside your terriotory it still counts as you attacking them

 

[alamo]

Self defence is allowed. Offensive actions against their territory is required.

Otherwise Mutual Protection would essentially be a Military Alliance, and you could never negotiate peace.

 

[El Loco]

If you attack enemy troops in your territory the mpp is not triggered only if you invade, bombard or kill units in his territory

 

[Tatran]

A more simple solution was to sign also a MPP with Greece.

 

[huh?]

Let me ask this, as I think this is what happened in my game:

For conversation, lets say that it is turn #100 in the game.

On turn #100, I was already at war with Arabia. I had troops within their borders and attacked a city, but didn't take it. My turn then ended.

During Arabia's moves in turn #100, they sign an MPP with India.

During India's moves in turn #100, the MPP is activated and India declares war on me. I got the little window that said the whole India is involved via the MPP.

The best that I can come up with is that since the MPP was signed in turn #100, and my attacks happened in turn #100, the game views this the same way as attacking when the MPP was already in place.

 

[norwegianviking]

Another quick question,
say i'm england and i'm at war with france, we both have an MPP with rome, and we both attack each other on the same turn, what would happen?

 

[Mr. Do]

Well that situation seems pretty clear-cut, huh?; If you have units in enemy territory then any civs that have an MPP with them will declare war on you.

 

[norwegianviking]

I',m having fun making this up, let's say that both civs attacked on the border and lost.

 

[huh?]

Well that situation seems pretty clear-cut, huh?; If you have units in enemy territory then any civs that have an MPP with them will declare war on you.

Perhaps my difficulty is with the timing of the whole situation.

My troops were there. Then the MPP was signed. War was declared on me via the MPP; even though I didn't have an option to withdrawl my troops. It was as if the MPP was activated based on my past trangressions. Perhaps the new MPP would be good enough for me to stop my advance.

I have to remember this tactic for the future:

1. Get into a war.
2. Do not enter the enemy's territory.
3. Lure the AI into my territory (unprotect worker perhaps).
4. Once the AI is on my soil, sign an MPP.
5. My new MPP ally will have to immediately go to war with my enemy.

Also, I thought the MPP was activate based on attacking a unit or city, not by just being in their territory.

 

[sealman]

Another quick question,
say i'm england and i'm at war with france, we both have an MPP with rome, and we both attack each other on the same turn, what would happen?

Rome would declare war on whoever attacked first.

 

[norwegianviking]

Rome takes the last turn

 

[Mr. Do]

Also, I thought the MPP was activate based on attacking a unit or city, not by just being in their territory.

Nope, it is that simple. I know this for a fact because a few games ago a neighbour of mine signed an MPP with an enemy; the enemy was on a continent quite a while ago and we never fought so I didn't have to worry about the pact being activated... until I sent a ship around their borders, and accidentally left it inside their territory one turn. And so World War 7 began.

I also don't think it's THAT screwy that by signing an MPP means that you'll declare war against anyone who's already at war with your ally and has troops in their territory... after all, it's about protection. You're agreeing to declare war on anyone who is currently actively threatening your ally, not someone who attacks in the future.

1. Get into a war.
2. Do not enter the enemy's territory.
3. Lure the AI into my territory (unprotect worker perhaps).
4. Once the AI is on my soil, sign an MPP.
5. My new MPP ally will have to immediately go to war with my enemy.

Well I would certainly hope that if I signed a mutal protection pact with another country then they would defend me against enemy troops inside my border enslaving my people. If you actively manipulate the way the AI works, then that's fine. You don't even have to stop there, you could probably achieve the same effect by signing the MPP than marching a stupidly weak unit into their territory. Go for their resources and they'll either have to kill your trooper and activate the pact, or let you pillage it.

 

[Grille]

@huh?

There's a timing difference if a MPP is triggered by attacking or by staying on enemy territory.

If a MPP is triggered by bombarding/pillaging/attacking, the war declaration follows directly after such act, i.e. during the agressors turn.

If the MPP is triggered by sitting on enemy turf, the MPP ally's war declaration follows at turn end of the turf owner's turn.

Example:
Playing order is
1. Civ A
2. Civ B
3. Civ C

Civ A and civ B have MPP.

Civ C is active and declares war on civ A.
Civ C attacks civ A on civ A's turf, so civ B declares during civ C's turn.


Now imagine Civ C would not attack after declaring war on civ A. Civ C just moves stuff onto Civ A's turf. During Civ C's turn, no war declaration from civ B comes in. Civ C ends its turn. Then civ A becomes active, but does not finish off civ C's units (these still sit on A's turf). Civ A ends its turn and that's the point of time the MPP with civ B is triggered. Civ B declares on C at Civ A's turn end.
>If that MPP was just signed during Civ A's turn, civ C is kinda fooled...

 

[huh?]

Got it, and thanks.

 

[Ranos]

I was out of town yesterday so never checked the forums until now. I must say the conversation and speculation have been interesting but many of you seem to have missed some important facts in my post.

I have not sent a troop into India's territory, only atttacked a few of its units that were in my territory.

Why would the MPP activate when I never set foot into Indian territory?

I had only taken cities controlled by France that had Indian citizens in them. I only attacked units in my territory or in neutral territory, which does not activate MPPs. MPPs can only be activated inside the territory of one of the signed members.

My play style is to take a city and make sure I can defend it before I move on to the next. I know I had no troops inside Indian territory when the MPP was activated.

One possibility is that I starve all captured cities down to three population. Could the fact that I was starving Indian citizens in my city have triggered the MPP?

 

[SwitchbladeNGC]

I',m having fun making this up, let's say that both civs attacked on the border and lost.

So are you saying that there are 2 stacks of units and each civ loses one unit in their stack? I don't think that 2 units attacking eackother can both lose.

 

[alamo]

Win or loose, an attack on any unit in their borders counts!

Simply moving into their territory will do.

In the original case the player already had units in enemy territory when the MPP was signed, so he had no control over the DoW.