Advanced Start - Why does the AI have so many points?

[Izmir Stinger]

I decided to play an advanced start game starting in the Classical Age. I got WTFPWNT hardcore very early on. I suspected foul play, so I started another map with the same settings and entered worldbuilder. Here is my starting setup.



But I was all alone. Guess I need to wait a turn.



There we go. Lucian has joined us, and presumably the rest of the Donivello, and someone picked up Way of the Forests with their starting points. That must have cost 500 some odd points, but its worth it if you are Lojosfar. I expect to see them in my tour of what the AI did with its points.



Hmm. The Banor seem to think they are elves. The AI badly needs some religious behavior modification... but that's another topic entirely. Wait, how could they afford a tech and all of those guys? And isn't there a 2 unit per city cap? Plus terrain improvements and extra population. I call shenanigans.

A glance around the map shows that the people without techs (that I know of) have much, much, MUCH more to start with.




Seriously. WTF?

Many of those cities have 2 workers in them, a couple of warriors, several improvements, a bunch of population. Some even have a settler in addition to the cities you see. And this is on Prince. Is this really fair? I don't recall BtS behaving like this on an Advanced start. Is this a bug, or was the AI determined to need a huge advantage on advanced starts that it didn't need on normal starts?

I like to use advanced starts, but this is unplayable.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

The two units per city is military units, workers don't count IIRC.

I've played with some advanced starts in FfH and the AI gets more (or I got less?) points on Monarch/Emperor, but it wasn't unreasonable. Did you buy lots of techs?

 

[Ursa]

Not sure about the specifics but the two units per city I believe is unit specific. ie. 2 workers and 2 warriors and 2 whatever else you can afford in one city.

My friends and I play advanced start at clasical often on a tectonics map and usually dont have too many problems.

 

[Izmir Stinger]

I've played with some advanced starts in FfH and the AI gets more (or I got less?) points on Monarch/Emperor, but it wasn't unreasonable. Did you buy lots of techs?

I didn't buy any techs, and spent all but 4 of my points.

I think this is unreasonable. They clearly started with at least 5 times as many points, maybe more. I don't know why they are getting such a big advantage. I selected increasing difficulty because I wanted a challenge, I didn't realize that the AI would start with 4 times my population, a bunch of prebuilt improvements, 4 workers and a small army. Why does this work differently than BtS? In BtS they start with a comperable little empire, not a huge lead. I think the AI gets the same number of points as you, but can buy more than you with it - I think because it factors in their AI production bonuses that they get for high difficulty (and perhaps they can buy less on low difficulty because of the penalty?)

Here is a save with the second turn of a regular BtS game on an advanced classical start. The AI has a much more modest start (though their wisdom is still very much in question).

 

[Izmir Stinger]

Not sure about the specifics but the two units per city I believe is unit specific. ie. 2 workers and 2 warriors and 2 whatever else you can afford in one city.

No, it is a hard cap of two military units per city. Workers don't count, and I think there is a limit of one settler per city, as well.

 

[D-Rockz]

I usually play in Monarch and do around 1800 advanced start. The AI definitely gets more points but its hardly "unplayable" Just forces me to be cautious in the early game while giving me a challenge.

 

[Demus]

i must say, that bannor start is a bit crazy. Techs bought include at least FoL and mining, since the AI was able to mine the copper. Also, don't you need the required tech before buying a certain improvement? In that case, add animal husbandry and education to the mix.

Also, these screens show something is off with the AI's advanced start purchases. Flauros has bought a cottage on top of mana, located in the tundra, while the same city has an unimproved non-irrigated grassland tile. The doviello placement is just silly, with both cities completely isolated from eachother.

 

[Izmir Stinger]

i must say, that bannor start is a bit crazy. Techs bought include at least FoL and mining, since the AI was able to mine the copper. Also, don't you need the required tech before buying a certain improvement? In that case, add animal husbandry and education to the mix.

It's a classical start, so they had mining and animal husbandry already, so its not that bad but I still think they have a bunch more points than a normal BtS advanced start, and I don't know why.

Also, these screens show something is off with the AI's advanced start purchases. Flauros has bought a cottage on top of mana, located in the tundra, while the same city has an unimproved non-irrigated grassland tile. The doviello placement is just silly, with both cities completely isolated from eachother.

This isn't unique to FFH. In a regular game of BtS the AI makes really weird choices with their points in Advanced Starts. They just seem to have fewer points to screw around with.

Interesting fact, discovered by accident: If you click on "Begin" in an advanced start game without placing your first city, the AI will spend your points for you, and you get to see an example of their bizarre set up behavior.

 

[Izmir Stinger]

I usually play in Monarch and do around 1800 advanced start. The AI definitely gets more points but its hardly "unplayable" Just forces me to be cautious in the early game while giving me a challenge.

Its fine as a chalenge, but i wasn't aware this was supposed to be a challenge mode of some kind. This game already had a challenge mode engaged: increasing difficulty. Unless I could get firmly in the lead in just 200 turns, I was going to be facing 8 Deity Level AIs who had a big head start and who got progressively increasing production bonuses every 50 turns. I'm not that good.

EDIT: You know, I just thought of a possible explanation. Maybe, because I selected increasing difficulty, it considered my difficulty to be deity for the purposes of their advanced start. I don't know how big a bonus they get on deity, but maybe that is why they seem to be all juiced up.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Maybe it's the combination of advanced and classical start that is causing your problem.

 

[Ahriman]

I play with Advanced Start and classical era all the time, playing Emperor difficulty. I've never checked what the AI gets, but its never been a problem.

Very typically, I will start with 3 cities, a settler, 3 workers, 2 warriors and a scout.

 

[Izmir Stinger]

I'm going to try generating a bunch of advanced starts, fiddling with various settings, and compare the AI's starting setups in world builder. I think the "Increasing Difficulty" is the most likely culprit, but I'll try lots of stuff. I had a bunch of options turned on in that game: End of winter, all unique features, etc.

 

[Anathema]

Yeah I've never had a problem with advanced start, if anything it gives me an extra advantage over the AI (compared to the same game without advanced start) since I spend the points more wisely. Something strange seems to be going on for you, perhaps it is the increasing difficulty.