Affinity rework, Culture, improvement and More if Affinity

[Gokudo01]

2 weeks left until the next extension of Beyond Earth and we already know that many issues wont be addressed.

Affinity too science depended, Improvement balance issues ( Academy mainly), Virtues, Quests ( although some efforts have been done with RT ) and more.

But, although I know this game has got all these issues, I really like it, I don't even know why, the scifi ? the units ? the art ? The female voice actress ?

So instead of complaining everyday , I will propose some changes to Affinity and Culture system in order to try to smooth the overall experience.

So what's the problem with affinity :

First they don't offer much in Vanilla, a little more in RT. It's a little sad when you think that affinities are meant to define your society, like philosophy and ideology.

Second, they are too much linked with Science. Not only it creates some weird issues but it doesn't feel natural :

Why should Ideologies be linked with Science and not Culture ?
Ok for both, because Affinity is not just an ideology but a way to develop and see the future with your faction but atm it's 80% science 20% culture if you consider that getting culture allows you to get more science or some side bonus like + 20% to affinity exp or -10% to leaf technologies.

Which brings me to Virtues. With RT, diplomatic system will bring many bonus and some overlap with Virtues bonus.
You can react and adapt with the diplomatic system as you can do in other recent games, like Endless legend. You can have those critical + 5 health at turn 50 and switch to industry or science when you are able to live without it.

In this environment, what is the role of Virtues ? Static diplomatic bonus ?

I think that virtues should give you Play style, not just a bunch of small bonus but a different way to play the game and to develop your sponsor.

So here my proposition, feel free to discuss it and give me some feedback


Before I start, I want to point out that numbers can always be changed and if I don't put "X" on my numbers, it has got the advantage to be less abstract.

I've got the rising tide changes in my mind too.


I will start with Affinity because my Culture changes extend the Affinity ones.


I - Affinity System

1- I propose to increase tenfold the experience needed to get affinity level.
Quests should get the same processing( x10 exp from their rewards )

Tier 1 and Tier 2 leaves should get their affinity points increased tenfold.
Tier 3, increase sevenfold
Tier 4, increase fivefold

Yes, you are losing some affinity points from tech web but don't worry, you will get them back with the virtue changes


2- Affinity levels should upgrade Improvements. Biowell, Dome and Node should get most of their bonus from affinity level.( Harmony, Purity, Supremacy )
Terraforming should get a bonus from Purity-Supremacy.
Natural resources should get a bonus from Purity-Harmony
Strategic resources should get a bonus from Harmony-Supremacy

It leaves 4 improvements "neutral" : Manufactory, Academy, Farm and Array.

3 - Affinity late levels( 10+ ) should allow you to get more from your resources, you should be able to harvest more ( like Slavic federation with petroleum) and get better yields from it ( it's already accomplished with some building early ). Getting some free xenomass when you re harmony is cool but not enough.

4 - Affinity levels should increase the difference between them :
- Purity should get bonus to be more focus on growing and getting big. They should have bonus to specialist and trade.
- Harmony should get bonus to establish cities with medium population( more food from basic resources, better xenowell but no food carry over) and should have the easiest way to get health. After all, they have embraced genetic and they are able to adapt faster to their environment.
- Supremacy should have an hard time to grow but should get some super yield from their improvement and later lvl 10-11-12, they should get free energy to food conversion or even the possibility to buy population with energy. ( After all, late game you are almost robots )

5 - Some Unique units should come sooner, ( Aegis, Rocktopus and CARVR)

II - Virtues

There are three things that I hate about Virtues :

Firstly, there are so many underwhelming virtues, it's just pathetic.

Secondly, they don't give a different way to play the game, they just add small bonus after small bonus to make you stronger. Sometimes the bonus is a joke and sometimes it's too good ( fast colonist for example, but I think it's mostly an artist issue )

Lastly, they are too linked with yields with some exceptions here and there :
Industry is energy and production, Prosperity is food and health, Knowledge is culture and science. Might is hum, I don't know? Affinity ? Spy ? aliens exterminator ? military industry ? Stations ? I don't really know what are their yields. They don't even have bonus to attack cites or to reduce the turns of resistance or unhappiness from occupied cities.( which should have been there if it was "the military tree" )

So here my proposition :

Global Changes :

1 - Every categories have got normalised two first kicker bonus.
The first one at 5 is the health bonus.
The second one at 10 gives you an UNIQUE way to generate affinity experience/points
The last one is an unique bonus if you choose to fill every virtues from the category.

2 - Every categories has got a way to generate culture. But I will talk about it later.

3 - Every bonus which gives culture bonus, culture for more culture, bonus from culture output are now located in synergy bonus.
Free virtues, Virtues cost reduction, Culture from population, Culture to gold, Culture to science, etc ....

4 - Culture is not related to any category. If you choose to play cultural, you just need to get those horizontal bonus instead of diving deep into the trees.

Might :

Might is now oriented around Aggressive expansion. They want to have the best spot on the map and they don't want you to take it from them. They are oppressive at peace and at war. they will take over your sweet expansion spot and they will try to steal it from you if you were there first.

First kicker is health from military units ( 0.5 ratio or 0.6 )
Second kicker is Affinity projects. This is how Might generates Affinity points.
It works like Emancipation gate. You put units into it, you "sacrifice" them or convert them into propagandist and it gives you a percent of their strength as affinity points.
Last kicker is now 25% strength against cities.

For the tree, I won't talk about the order or the pre-requirement. I will just give the virtues which should not be there and the one I would add.

! Removed

Liberation army
Public security
Special services
Adaptive Science
Joint Operation

! New :

-> Discount on purchasing tiles. (something like - 50% )
-> Free settler ( instead of liberation army )
-> Scaling Food and Culture bonus in the city where you purchase tile or acquires it with culture
-> Health from tiles you own ( we can start with 1 health every 10 owned tiles )
-> Each City tile produces +0.75 Energy for every Population

! Changed :

-> Army Engineering cop : from 1P 1E to 3 Production and 1 Science from Strategic resource
-> Survivalist : now grants the ability to build road/mag to unitclass_marine
-> Scavenging : + 1 Free Marine, call him "Papa".

//So now might is : Take land, buy out every tiles in order to get the good land, the strategic resources, make your neighbour mad, and increase your population. Build an army if you has been too disrespectful or just to get more affinity points.

Prosperity :

Prosperity is more about (In my humble opinion ) expansion and health but with respect of your neighbours. You want to grab some land and try to make the best of it. You prefer to get the sweet spot but you can do ok without it.
Prosperity focus on passive/defensive expansion, health and international trade route.

First kicker : + 7 Health
Second kicker : Unlock three unique improvements which generates affinity points. They can only be build near a city tiles and you can't have one near another. They are destroyed if the city is destroyed or if the city moves.
Last kicker : -20% unhealth

! Removed :

Homesteading
Colony Initiative
Pathfinders
Mind Over Matter
Hands Never Idle
Eudaimonia

! New :

-> Food bonus into the capital
-> Production bonus for settlers ( +50% or 100% )
-> Discount for purchasing building (-25% /30% ) allowing them to buy basic buildings in new cities.
-> Growth Bonus
-> +1 health per city
-> Receive some (scaling ) culture and gold when a citizen is born.


Knowledge :

In my humble opinion , Knowledge should be about science lover , Specialist and Spy. You are the fake friend, the one which always say yes in order to break the promise 10 turns later. You want to piggyback the other players and you like littlefinger from GoT ? Knowledge is for you.

First Kicker : 1 health every 5 citizens
Second Kicker : +100% affinity exp from research ( Oh you are back ).
Last Kicker : New level 3 Operation, Coloured Revolution : After 20 turns (without any modifier), your target lose his food stock and you get 2 new citizens in your smallest city.


! Removed

Social Mores
Creative Class
Cohesive Values
Applied Metasociology
Community Medicine
Technoartisans
Monomyth

! New

-> Explorer can build 1 additional Expedition (opener )
-> + yield to specialist ( for example +1 production +1 science )
-> half food and unhealth from specialist
-> + health from the number of techs you've done. ( 0.25 health every tech, there are 82 techs in BE )
-> + intrigue from cover ops( + 40% for example ? )
-> Free culture when you complete a ( successful or not ) operation.
-> +50 production in the city when you purchase or finish to product a building. (will really help to get the small building out)
-> + 2 Food from plantation and paddock.

! Changed

-> Information Warfare gets "City Intrigue decreases faster when an Agent is present " in addition of his current effect

-> Foresight moves or gets removed, I don't really care. if it moves, it should stay tier 1, it's not good enough to be tier 2 or tier 3.



Industry :

The most powerful Virtues atm, strong production, strong health and energy generation, hyperscaling. This tree is almost a must-have if you don't plan to only create cities with 5 citizens, 3 academies, 1 laboratory and 1 network.

First kicker : 0.5 health per trade route
Second kicker : Grants affinity city processes( one of each affinity, extremely small ratio production -> affinity points )
Last kicker : not change maybe a small buff

! Removed

Enterpreneurial Spaceflight
Alternative Markets

! New

-> +2 energy from any population acting as a Specialist
-> Your capital tiles generate 2 more culture for each active orbital unit. (free solar collector )


Synergy :

So now everything related to culture for more culture or Culture -> any other yield is here with some others bonus.

That means that if you are focusing on culture, you can play any virtues, you just need to play more horizontally.

Tier 1 :

6 : free virtue
9 : + 10% Production, science and energy in the Capital
12 : - 12% to virtue costs
15 : Earn extra Science equal to 20% of the Culture you generate

Tier 2 :

6 : Free virtue
9 : Each city generate 0.5 culture for every population
12 : Free affinity, Free Ops
15 : Earn extra Energy equal to 40% of the Culture you generate

Tier 3 :

7 : +7 Culture for every Great Wonder
10 : +10% growth, production, science, energy and culture in every city


Aaaannd that's the end. I still think that we need some balacing with improvements too ( base yield of academy is too good, Manufactory is so bad without Social investment, etc .. ) but it will be for another post
I'm waiting some feedback, because I feel like I will have to work on it when the expansion will be released

 

[Galgus]

I agree that Affinities should be offering much more to the player in non-military matters, as they are a central theme.
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Personally I think that they would be best tied to Science and Culture, since both play a role in their societal changes.
_____________________________________

I'm fine with the concept of the Virtue system, but I think it suffers from many next-to-useless filler bonuses.

It would create a distinct playstyle better with more worthwhile bonuses.
_________________________
______________________

Personally I would make researching any technology or adopting any virtue grant generic affinity points that could be spent as the player pleases.
____________________________

I agree that improvements should be more tied to affinity, though Purity is much more aligned with Terrascapes than P/S, which has an influence to ignore the environment.
_____________________________

I'm not entirely sure that higher amounts of strategic resources are needed, but if they are it could be tied into the flat strategic resource gains.

Like +4 and +40% Floatstone or some such.
__________________________

I fully agree that the affinities should have distinct playstyles, but I disagree on exactly what they should be.

Purity seems most naturally focused on a heavy Culture focus, with extra conversion rewards for high culture generation.

Harmony should thrive on the new world, with health and food bonus that ensure that it can have both the most cities and the biggest cities.

Supremacy does kind of work as a tall affinity, but mostly I think an energy and/or production conversion to food. If any core affinity would focus on specialists, I'd think it would be Supremacy.

Roughly speaking I view Purity as culture/production, Harmony as health/food, and Supremacy as energy/science.
___________________________________________

I don't think a fast colonist is too good: I think the other bonuses need to be raised to it's level.

I like the idea of Might having options beyond simply warmongering, and spies, affinity levels, yields on kill, and bonuses from strategic resources are a good way to do it.

Knowledge is fine as a Culture/ Science tree, but it does not reward a culture focus properly right now.

Instead of useless culture-for-culture it should have more rewards and conversion from high culture, like Technoartisans and the removed Applied Aesthetics.

(Culture for culture never pays off in time to be truly worthwhile without absurd numbers.)

Of course, the rest of it should be mostly Science virtues.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

On Affinities and Virtues

Virtues
I would nerf "Mind Over Matter" to +3 Health and "Eudomonia" (sp?) to -10% Unhealth but add a new Virtue Tree that has moderately week health virtues in the 3rd Tier. Then I would improve Elodie's Trait so that Tier 3 gives her a free virtue every 5 or 6 bought with culture. Might and Industry would be unchanged, Knowledge would lose all culture and energy bonuses unrelated to science, Prosperity would lose all culture and energy bonuses unrelated to health and food, and all the culture and energy bonuses from the Knowledge and Prosperity trees should get moved to the new Artistry virtue, which should also get the tier 3 health bonuses I spoke of.

Affinities
Affinities should be much more expensive by points, reduce the branch tech bonus from +7 to +5 but add a Great Affinity Person where an amount of Great Person points equal to your affinity level is earned every turn. This great person can be used for a big one-time boost (Energy for Supremacy, Culture for Purity, Food for Harmony) or to build a Great Person improvement (+8 Energy, +2 Science and +1 Supremacy Affinity point per turn; +8 Culture, +2 Science and +1 Purity Affinity point per turn' and +8 Food, +2 Science and +1 Harmony Affinity Point per turn respectively). Then, the first Affinity to reach 18 gets to unlock level 19 and 20 if no other affinities are over level 16 at the time (and just level 19 if one affinity is level 16, if a 2nd virtue is at level 17 when the first reaches level 18 and the 3rd affinity is no more than level 10, both those affinities unlock level 19).

Leader Portraits by Affinity Level
I also think that there should be 5 Leader Portraits per Affinity with the highest unlocked at level 20 (or 19/19, or 18/18/18). That means you would have generic outfit (0/0/0), colored outfit (4 levels, 3/3 or 2/2/2 with the priority in that order), slightly altered outfit and accessories (8 levels, 6/6, or 5/5/5), the "typical" maxed outfit (12 levels, 10/10 or 8/8/8), the more exaggerated and slightly younger or healthier look (level 16, 14/14 or 12/12/12), and Starships-level affinity portrait--though the resurrection device, Xenomass bathhouses, and Promethean wonders means the leaders (including Elodie and Hutama) should look no older than 30 and hybrid affinities should be represented. The 18/18/18 affinity portrait would be rather weird because the leader would look like an Alien Cyborg with a purple and red color scheme and full regalia). I am still on the fence if the 19/19/16 or 20/15/15 portraits should look different from 19/19/4 or 20/5/5, if they are different, then accessories and color scheme would change but the biological parts of the leaders would be the same as 19/19/4 or 20/5/5. So a 20/16/15 Purity Leader would look like their younger self with a "pimped-out suit (or dress)" with technological and biological gadgets with a Purple and Silver theme instead of Red and Gold and a 19/19/16 Purity/Harmony Leader would look like a Greek God (or Goddess) version of their original selves with (mostly Gold and Bronze, with some silver) high tech gadgets and accessories. If I had artistic skills, I would love to draw 19/19/15 Purity/Harmony Elodie. Imagine a beautiful, healthy and curvaceous French Amazon with a futuristic techno-Greco-Roman outfit!

EDIT: If only my artistic skills could put my vivid imagination onto a canvas (even if paper or digital), you would all be amazed by the awe-inspiring architecture and gorgeous space people!

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'd prefer Affinity Virtues, that let you
1. get radical changes due to your affinity
2. let you choose what type of radical changes Your version of affinity has (so both Human Hive Harmony and space PETA harmony are possible, but neither is necesary)
3. boosts your earning of experience points/gives them directly (so you have something besides tech to invest in, as opposed to quests which don't require investment really)
4. allow you to have some method of 'declaring' affinity when your hybrid levels are creeping up

The general virtues should be improved, and I like your idea for systematizing them.
However to get rid of the 'culture for culture' problem , either OP /automatic or UP.. I'd give significant benefits to culture Besides virtues (influence over foreign and domestic cities...BE Sociopolitical Mechanic (Rebels, Unifying empires and Affinity hatred))


As for Leader portraits per affinity level,
I don't think 5 outfits per affinity is needed (although it would be nice), 2 per affinity (especially if hybrids were included) would be fine, as long as the lower one was the highest they had currently (getting it somewhere between 4-7) and the higher was closer to the Starships (getting somewhere between 10-14)

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Currently there is the generic (fresh on the planet) portrait, the recolored outfit (same mesh as generic) portrait, accessorizing outfit (new mesh or at least new things added to the mesh) portrait, and the slightly more adaptation (more bling, cybernetic implants (glowing eyes), or genetic modification with Spice blue eyes) portrait. However, the portraits in Starships are so much more exaggerated than the highest affinity portrait in Beyond Earth (compare full Supremacy Fielding in CivBE to Supremacy Fielding in Starships). The way I see it, the maxed single Affinity level in CivBE should be the exact same as the portrait in Starships but with Hutama, Elodie, Dr. Sochua, and Duncan being younger and healthier (resurrection device, anyone?). However, hybrid affinities should be represented (especally since they get UU and upgrades) but there should be an intermediate portrait between the rather modest current maxed-out affinity portrait and the starships-level portrait.

I just thought of something! Why not change the affinity victories? Supremacy becomes Virtual Eden (no warp gate needed), Rampancy now gets Emancipation, Purity becomes reversed-promised-land (fix Old Earth up), Purity-Supremacy now gets Promised land, and Harmony retains Transcendence. The Warp/Exodus Gate should require level 13 Supremacy, Nanotechnology, and Hypercomputing to build but also level 13 Purity OR Harmony to activate (with the higher one being the choice) on whether the Warp Gate becomes an Exodus or Emancipation Gate. Straight affinity victory would require level 16 affinity (not 15). I just haven't figured out Purity/Harmony.

An Affinity EP would be perfect for the next one!

 

[DefiantMars]

I just thought of something! Why not change the affinity victories? Supremacy becomes Virtual Eden (no warp gate needed), Rampancy now gets Emancipation, Purity becomes reversed-promised-land (fix Old Earth up), Purity-Supremacy now gets Promised land, and Harmony retains Transcendence. The Warp/Exodus Gate should require level 13 Supremacy, Nanotechnology, and Hypercomputing to build but also level 13 Purity OR Harmony to activate (with the higher one being the choice) on whether the Warp Gate becomes an Exodus or Emancipation Gate. Straight affinity victory would require level 16 affinity (not 15). I just haven't figured out Purity/Harmony.

An Affinity EP would be perfect for the next one!

I do like the idea of 6 VCs but I don't like the idea of having the option of using a Harmony level requirement to activate the gate. It just doesn't jive from a roleplay/thematic angle. I'm all for adding more requirements to win, but if I'm reading this right, that one just doesn't click.

• Harmony: Transcendence
• Harmony/Purity: ???
• Purity: Reclamation
• Purity/Supremacy: Promised Land
• Supremacy: Virtual Eden
• Supremacy/Harmony: Emancipation

As for the Harmony/Purity VC, I'm a fan of the idea that they want to hybridize new earth and old earth. So a mass terraforming victory where they make the "optimal" environment for humanity while making the "best possible" humanity.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Your Harmony/Purity idea is good, I can totally see them making themselves healthier with new genetics then making their new home better with mass-terraforming, though I think that would call for a new Harmony/Purity terrascape, maybe one with 0-2 energy maintenance that adds to the base tile stats but only yields +2 Food, +1 Culture, and +1 Production?

Maybe have the Warp Gate activation change to the following: Reclamation (17 Purity), Exodus (15 Purity, 14 Supremacy), or Emancipation (16 Supremacy, 10 Harmony); Virtual Eden would then require 17 Supremacy and Transcendence would require 17 Harmony. Reclamation portal activation of the Warp Gate still requires the 12 Supremacy to build the Warp Gate in the first place. This would also allow you to get both of the rewards from the guy who wanted to go back to Earth (choose the stay option first, which gives you energy and population (instead of culture and science? if you let him leave) then he is the one to suggest the Reclamation portal once the Warp Gate is being built and you automatically get the 2nd reward to that quest once the Reclamation Portal is activated at the Warp Gate. The Reclamation Portal only allows peaceful units to go through (workers, colonists, maybe traders, maybe new "Pilgrims" and "Supply Ships") while the Emancipation Portal only allows military units to go through (with the same or harder conditions of requiring a certain military strength to go to Earth to fully "Emancipate" it). Since the Warp Gate tile wonder is the same for Exodus, Reclamation, and Emancipation, that means only one can be built on the planet. If you want to fix up old earth and another AI want to "emancipate" it, the first to build the Warp Gate prevents any other from being built (and if work had already begun on its construction, the under construction gate(s) disappears). This wonder blocking would make all the affected AI leaders HATE you (lose a massive amount of respect) unless they are allied with you, then they only lose a small amount of respect at first then propose to work with you on the goal they want. If their goals align with yours and you allow them to cooperate, they get shared victory when you win so they gain a massive bonus to respect when you accept. If their goals align but you don't want to share the victory you lose a moderate amount of respect (since they want to share victory but are content that their goal is achieved, even if not by them). If they want to say, Emancipate Earth and you want to Reclaim it, you would obviously deny their request (or automatically back down when you activate the portal, which is worse). Denying the request gives the same respect hit as wonder blocking non-allies while accepting the request gives a moderate boost to respect. However, if you lead them on and activate a different portal than what they want, their respect for you will be set to 0 for the rest of the game and they will immediately declare war on you (maybe with a free unit) as soon as you activate the portal--which poses a problem for promised land but not for emancipation and could be an annoyance with Reclamation.

Transcendence Victory should also make the Aliens not only aggressive to all sponsors while the Mind Flower is built (until it blooms) but also make them permanently stronger. Transcendence Victory would also make all Leaders with less than 15 Supremacy (because robots can avoid the link with the Mind Flower because their own internet uses different frequencies) automatically gain a ton of respect (if you 'one more turn' the game) and automatically ally with you (and stop fighting each other and the aliens) but allies with 15+ Supremacy (if you manage to keep them up to that point because they get a huge hit to respect once you build the Mind Flower) become docile as well because they willingly change their internet to be on the same frequency. Everyone allied with the victor can no longer break the alliance (because their minds are all connected) but all robotic enemies (15+ Supremacy not already allied) will not accept this (because they want to dominate a technological network, not submit to a biological one) and must be eliminated (because they will declare war on you, and by extension your allies and the entire planet). Virtual Eden also links all technology on the planet (meaning every faction with >10 Supremacy but <16 Purity allies with you because you hacked their technology to control them). Harmony players (with <10 Supremacy), Purity Players (16+ Purity or <10 Supremacy) will become the "rebellion" to your "Skynet 2.0" The thing is that Harmony/Purity (16+ Purity, 12+ Harmony, <10 Supremacy) would be the faction most likely to stand a chance and Purity/Supremacy would not because Purity/Supremacy goes to the dark ages when the robotic servants defect while biological (H) and old-fashioned (P) technology would be immune and Evolved or True Xeno Titans and Lev Destroyers could fight off the robotic forces.

 

[Galgus]

I like the idea of that terraforming victory for them, and the dichotomy between Purity and Purity / Supremacy seems solid.

 

[DefiantMars]

@Azem.Ocram, Oh that's what you meant. Of that's the case and your're going to have a series of complex and nuanced mechanics (especially regarding affinity level) I would make the "hybrid requirements the same value for simplicity's sake. No need to make them more complex.

I do like the you've tried to implicate other sponsors with the VCs but obviously they need to be streamlined.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

@DefiantMars, I also changed the Affinity levels since my previous post (as you can see, I said 13 Supremacy in my first/brainstorm post but decided to have 12 to build). 17 Purity, 12 Supremacy would be about as difficult as 15 Purity, 14 Supremacy but more difficult than 17 Supremacy. I will flesh it out more in my thread.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I do like the idea of 6 VCs but I don't like the idea of having the option of using a Harmony level requirement to activate the gate. It just doesn't jive from a roleplay/thematic angle. I'm all for adding more requirements to win, but if I'm reading this right, that one just doesn't click.

• Harmony: Transcendence
• Harmony/Purity: ???
• Purity: Reclamation
• Purity/Supremacy: Promised Land
• Supremacy: Virtual Eden
• Supremacy/Harmony: Emancipation

As for the Harmony/Purity VC, I'm a fan of the idea that they want to hybridize new earth and old earth. So a mass terraforming victory where they make the "optimal" environment for humanity while making the "best possible" humanity.

I think part of the problem with the multiple VCs is it means the VCs themselves are rather stale.

I'd prefer
Each Core Affinity has a victory... that has actual regular gameplay mechanics linked to it (Terraforming for Purity/Harmony, ?Influence? for Supremacy ?Contact?)

Each Hybrid Affinity could pursue either of the two options (at the Equivalent level so if it was Affinity 15 to activate it with Supremacy, maybe 10.10 for Mastery or Voracity)... although a quest would be involved and for Hybrids they would have to choose between one and the other at some point.

Because the overall division is between Earth and the Planet
Emancipation/Promised Land=save humanity* left on Earth
Conquest/Transcendance=save humanity* on Planet
Contact=connect humanity* with the stars
*humanity as defined by you

 

[Azem.Ocram]

I like my take on "Virtual Eden" because unlike the nice VR system biologically pure humans plug into when tired (in order to live a full lifespan in less time it takes to eat a snack), my idea is a network with the combined powers of Skynet and the Matrix masquerading as the one in the mod. The Virtual Eden mod by Ryika is the logical progression of Deep Memory (which makes sense for Purity/Supremacy) and might even be a good late-game Purity/Supremacy wonder (maybe make it require 10 Firaxite for processing power and 8 Geothermal to provide the energy to run it) and maybe even a prerequisite for Supremacy victory (if that is at all possible).

 

[Galgus]

Deep Memory seems very, very Purity in it's purposes even though the simulation technology is something Supremacy would also be very interested in.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Deep Memory seems very, very Purity in it's purposes even though the simulation technology is something Supremacy would also be very interested in.

Exactly! Deep Memory is extremely Purity in purpose, Ryika's Virtual Eden is stronger and Purity/Supremacy in purpose, and Supremacy's victory is most powerful but is used to trap us in the matrix instead of provide us great entertainment at any time.

Deep Memory gives culture, Ryika's Virtual Eden cuts down on consumption (I would make it a wonder from the same Human Conservation Technology that decreases empire-wide food consumption but ties down 8-10 Firaxite and 7-9 Geothermal), and Supremacy victory wins the game by trapping humans and prometheans in the matrix.

 

[Lord Tirian]

As for the Harmony/Purity VC, I'm a fan of the idea that they want to hybridize new earth and old earth. So a mass terraforming victory where they make the "optimal" environment for humanity while making the "best possible" humanity.

I actually think a tweaked Transcendence (more like SMAC, basically) would be very Harmony/Purity: using the vast latent neural network of the planet to make yourself more god-like. Just stress that it's a human-dominated consciousness and that the individual personalities can enter and leave the gestalt hive mind - a bit like Star Trek's Great Link (minus the shapeshifting), containing all human knowledge as well.

Then mainline Harmony could become something like the Gaia Controller that is an artificially grown mega-organism controlling all organic beings on the planet in perfect harmony - basically playing up the slightly creepier tones of the current Transcendence victory, where human beings are "just another drone" in that giant organism that doesn't particularly care about human history or traditions.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I actually think a tweaked Transcendence (more like SMAC, basically) would be very Harmony/Purity: using the vast latent neural network of the planet to make yourself more god-like. Just stress that it's a human-dominated consciousness and that the individual personalities can enter and leave the gestalt hive mind - a bit like Star Trek's Great Link (minus the shapeshifting), containing all human knowledge as well.

Then mainline Harmony could become something like the Gaia Controller that is an artificially grown mega-organism controlling all organic beings on the planet in perfect harmony - basically playing up the slightly creepier tones of the current Transcendence victory, where human beings are "just another drone" in that giant organism that doesn't particularly care about human history or traditions.

An example of why I think the victories should be achievable by multiple affinities

Transcendence-HP-Humanity controlling the neural net of planet to create a perfectly supporting environment for themselves
Transcendence-H-Humanity becoming part of the neural net of planet creating a perfect symbiotic relationship
Transcendence-HS-Humanity controlling the neural net of planet to make a global machine that pushes the limits of what is possible

Emancipation-SP-Liberating humanity from their need, overcoming those who want to maintain their economic control over the populace
Emancipation-S-Liberating humanity from their flesh (through uploading), overcoming those who want to maintain their physical control over the populace
Emancipation-SH-Liberating humanity from their flesh (through biotechnological modifications), overcoming those who want to maintain their physical control over the populace

Promised Land-PS-bringing refugees into a terraformed new Earth, to be cared for by technology
Promised Land-P-bringing refugees into a terraformed new Earth, just like the old
Promised Land-PH-bringing refugees into a terraformed new Earth, and new bodies

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Transcendence-HP-Humanity controlling the neural net of planet to create a perfectly supporting environment for themselves
Transcendence-H-Humanity becoming part of the neural net of planet creating a perfect symbiotic relationship
Transcendence-HS-Humanity controlling the neural net of planet to make a global machine that pushes the limits of what is possible

Emancipation-SP-Liberating humanity from their need, overcoming those who want to maintain their economic control over the populace
Emancipation-S-Liberating humanity from their flesh (through uploading), overcoming those who want to maintain their physical control over the populace
Emancipation-SH-Liberating humanity from their flesh (through biotechnological modifications), overcoming those who want to maintain their physical control over the populace

Promised Land-PS-bringing refugees into a terraformed new Earth, to be cared for by technology
Promised Land-P-bringing refugees into a terraformed new Earth, just like the old
Promised Land-PH-bringing refugees into a terraformed new Earth, and new bodies

I like your idea of having the original victories available to the hybrid affinities but I think there should be a way to differentiate the outcomes in-game to get a different victory screen for the different methods of pursuing the victory. would like to see all the affinities get an additional tile wonder. There would be a limit of 1 of each affinity tile wonder per planet (like a standard world wonder) and a limit of 1 affinity tile wonder per civilization (this could be done by unlocking only the affinity wonder corresponding with the first affinity level threshold with a choice between two affinity wonders if you get Level 16 of your highest affinity at the same time as Level 12 of the 2nd highest affinity). Purity could be like a garden city of Old Earth (requires 2 adjacent Terrascapes). Harmony could be like a nature preserve (requires miasma and 2 adjacent Biowells). Supremacy could be like the Matrix (requires 2 adjacent Manufacturies). Purity/Harmony could be some sort of genetic rejuvenation clinic (requires 2 adjacent Hybrid Forests-new content that gives 3 food and 1 culture, adds to terrain yield, maintenance-free). Purity/Supremacy could be some sort of a factory and store for robotic servants (requires 2 adjacent Robot Stores-new content that gives 2 production, 1 Science and 1 culture, maintenance-free). Supremacy/Harmony could be some sort of biotech factory (requires 2 Biotech Workshops-new content that gives 2 Science, 1 food and 1 production, maintenance-free).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I like your idea of having the original victories available to the hybrid affinities but I think there should be a way to differentiate the outcomes in-game to get a different victory screen for the different methods of pursuing the victory. would like to see all the affinities get an additional tile wonder. There would be a limit of 1 of each affinity tile wonder per planet (like a standard world wonder) and a limit of 1 affinity tile wonder per civilization (this could be done by unlocking only the affinity wonder corresponding with the first affinity level threshold with a choice between two affinity wonders if you get Level 16 of your highest affinity at the same time as Level 12 of the 2nd highest affinity). Purity could be like a garden city of Old Earth (requires 2 adjacent Terrascapes). Harmony could be like a nature preserve (requires miasma and 2 adjacent Biowells). Supremacy could be like the Matrix (requires 2 adjacent Manufacturies). Purity/Harmony could be some sort of genetic rejuvenation clinic (requires 2 adjacent Hybrid Forests-new content that gives 3 food and 1 culture, adds to terrain yield, maintenance-free). Purity/Supremacy could be some sort of a factory and store for robotic servants (requires 2 adjacent Robot Stores-new content that gives 2 production, 1 Science and 1 culture, maintenance-free). Supremacy/Harmony could be some sort of biotech factory (requires 2 Biotech Workshops-new content that gives 2 Science, 1 food and 1 production, maintenance-free).

I really like that idea...they should have different victory movies if different affinities achieve the same victory.
(even for Conquest it should show your troops..which will be different per affinity)

as for "unique victory tile"
The way I would do that is with affinity virtues,
Each would have 3 levels, and would require you to 'declare' the affinity
level 1 would require 5 or 4.4
level 2 would require 10 or 7.7
level 3 would require 15 or 10.10

Opening the Affinity Victory would require opening 1 Level 3 (and 2 level 2s?)

They would (hopefully) significantly shift strategy... so that different affinities Want different terrain improvements, ie one or two terrain improvements become much better than others (outside of resources)

 

[Lord Tirian]

An example of why I think the victories should be achievable by multiple affinities

That'd be ideal. Ideally, you'd keep the main thrust of the victory but modify the "support structure" around them, for example:

Transcendence:
Win by building the Mind Flower, victory is sped up by...
Ascendancy Pylons (P/H): Orbital unit requiring floatstone, must cover a city.
Xenoplexus (H): Tile improvement costing maintenance and Xenomass, must be worked.
Mind Stems (S/H): Special building requiring firaxite.

Emancipation
Win by sending Earth "supplies" by...
Military units (S/H): Send enough units to accumulate strength to conquer Earth.
Expansion (S): Send workers and colonists through to create a peaceful(ish) foothold.
Restoration (P/S): Complete enough trade routes with the gate, gate can maintain up to three trade routes from different cities at the same time.

Promised Land
Rescue Earthlings by...
Orbital settlements (P/S): Settlers are satellites instead, covering a 1-ring area, must maintain 20 satellites simultaneously.
Garden settlements (P): Bring through 20 Earthlings and settle them in special settlements (as now).
Perfect cities (P/H): Bring through 20 Earthlings and settle them in your cities, cities with Earthlings must maintain positive food income at all times.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

OK, that I like
You can have variation, but still have some simple basic tensions. (that need to be added)

Transcendence->Emancipation
Aliens are made mad against everyone, Emancipation weakens your society significantly (I'd probably allow more than 3 trade routes, more like 10... 5 decent sized cities totally devoted to that)..assuming aliens can be made an actual threat

Transcendence<->Promised Land
requires terraforming for one, must not allow terraforming for the other. (as for the Xenoplexus, I think requiring Xenomass and maintenance is enough, you probably don't need to work it)...adding global terraforming as a mechanic

Promised Land<->Emancipation
more settlers settled means more resistance to emancipation
more emancipation means some turns a settler doesn't come through (or increase the # of settlers required, and each turn a number of settlers come through...less if Earth is almost Emancipated)


I like those variations of them too,
(not sure about the mix with Emancipation though..as in which one does which..see below*)

Changes I would make-
Garden Settlements-Earth settlers are workers that build a special improvement, that consumes them and can't be built adjacent to another improvement like it (it has hp so it takes time to pillage).. receive multiple 'settlers' at once (say 3 at once for a total of 60)

Perfect Cities-Earth settlers can 'settle' in any city that has a 'treatment' building..once they have been in the city for 5-10? turns they are used up and the city gains a 'Refugee' point.

I'd see it as
Supremacy-upload the people, ignore the environment
SP-build domes and robots and let the people in (still ignore the outer environment)
SH-you want to cyborgize things, why not cyborgize the environment [or cyborgize the people through the environment]

So
Supremacy most likely to need military as the people need access to them (unlike HS) and people are more likely to object (unlike SP)
SP would just be sending supplies and influence, basically buying out Earth
HS would have to establish a base in some uninhabitable area and start their modifications
......
Supremacy sends military units to protect the people wanting to download
SP sends trade routes (sending trade routes to the gate gives Negative yields of production) full of robots to build domes and let people in (boosting the nations that let them do so)
HS sends special 'Ecoformatting' units (very expensive) to start a massive transition in earths environment and population