AI and fighter production

[techumseh]

Has anyone else found that AI civs do not build fighters in Test of Time? I first noticed this in a couple of WW2 scenarios I was working on, and after playing a couple of vanilla games recently, I realized that I was the only civ building them. Surely this has been noted before? Do others have the same experience? Maybe it's just a glitch on my computer.

 

[Dadais]

Little question there, are such fighters always attackers (Att greater than Def) then weaker than bombers for ai ?

What about fighters with Def bigger than Att (altering Dice reversing Att and Def in onInitiateCombat to keep initial gameplay intention if needed) ?

 

[techumseh]

Don't know. I'm referring to fighters in regular ToT, which includes stealth fighters. Curious if others have the same experience.

 

[Buck2005]

Has anyone else found that AI civs do not build fighters in Test of Time? I first noticed this in a couple of WW2 scenarios I was working on, and after playing a couple of vanilla games recently, I realized that I was the only civ building them. Surely this has been noted before? Do others have the same experience? Maybe it's just a glitch on my computer.

Out of curiosity, I looked at some old saves in both TOT and MGE. We are talking about saves, where the original rules are used and most of the AI of the nations have reached the level of all technologies. In general, the statistics are about the same everywhere. Fighters (both conventional and stealth) AI builds. However, the AI logic apparently has built-in limits on the number of unit types it can produce (generally, the AI builds exactly 5 nukes each). For example, most often AI nations have 2 fighters in the total number of units. Unit loss statistics show that the AI can build even more (in some save, I saw the AI and about 100 lost fighters).

 

[tootall_2012]

Hi Tech,

When testing Curt's 'Overlord' and John's 'the Cold War' I reported how the AI failed to produce fighters for the AI powers. Though they both used lua I don't believe that makes any difference in terms of the AI's production limitations in ToT with regards fighters (or other types of units for that matter). I had included my typical Scenario Casualties Tracking list for the units that each power built during these scenarios. You can find the posts in the links below:

Overlord Playtest Post #40 here.
The Cold War Playtest #99 here.

I assume you are using the Macro language for your design and as such my best recommendation at this point would be for you to provide event generated 'production assists' were the AI fails to build specific units. It's a method I've used regularly in my own creations.

 

[CurtSibling]

The AI in my games make a lot of use of air units. Might be that the AI focuses on offensive type flyers?

 

[techumseh]

In my experience the AI builds bombers and helicopters with no problem. It builds far too many cruise missiles, which is frustrating since they are only ever used against battleships and carriers. A question for the lords of lua: can it be used to modify the build orders for AI civs?

 

[JPetroski]

In my experience the AI builds bombers and helicopters with no problem. It builds far too many cruise missiles, which is frustrating since they are only ever used against battleships and carriers. A question for the lords of lua: can it be used to modify the build orders for AI civs?

You can set the production of a city to whatever you want as of one of the newer ToTPP patches. I did this in HoF so that certain units would be built. I didn't get too in depth with bothering about a rationale for why it was happening, but you could change the production based on whatever you wanted really (example, number of cities, turns, etc.)

 

[techumseh]

Thanks John. Controlling AI production is a very tricky and often overlooked aspect of scenario design. In this case, I'm looking at deficiencies in a standard vanilla game as well, ie. no fighters, too many useless cruise missiles and building Recycling Depots etc. when the AI civ is fighting for its life.

 

[JPetroski]

Well, the good news is you can write the production after you check something else, so if you wanted to take greater control over what "good" decisions would be, based on a situation, you could. As with everything in lua, it could be as simple or as complex as you want it. In HoF I just simply wanted to see certain units around, so I picked some cities to build them. If I ever remade it from the Allied perspective, I'd probably want to pay attention to what AI Germany was building depending on where they were at any given time.

 

[CurtSibling]

In my experience the AI builds bombers and helicopters with no problem. It builds far too many cruise missiles, which is frustrating since they are only ever used against battleships and carriers. A question for the lords of lua: can it be used to modify the build orders for AI civs?

I am having the opposite problem! I've been testing and editing Overlords Max, and the AI is building the new fighter types that are researched, but refuses point blank to use missiles.
Even in the cruise missile slot, and with vanilla stats, they are merely shuttling them around cities...So much for the V weapon terrors!

 

[techumseh]

Missile units target ship units based on a ratio of the missile's attack factor and the cost of the target. If you are using vanilla stats, cruise missiles will only attack naval units with a build cost of 16, ie. battleships and carriers. I understand that weaker missiles will target ships with lower build costs, but I haven't observed it myself. Years ago Captain Nemo mapped out the various possibilities through experimentation. It was posted on Apolyton SL forums, but I've been unable to find it.

 

[CurtSibling]

Ah! So the power of the missiles are too high and the build costs to weak - This is interesting info, thanks!
I'll do some tests.

 

[Dadais]

My memory brings back part of an explanation of @Prof. Garfield and a cost ratio ?

There it is !

 

[techumseh]

Thanks Dadais! I'd forgotten that Prof Garfield had found Nemo's old post.

 

[CurtSibling]

Hehe! In my scenario, I set the costs as Prof Garfield advised, and when the Germans declared war, the V1s came streaming in!

 

[CurtSibling]

Also - The Reich bastards dropped a nuke on Instanbul and Stockholm!
On the flipside, I nuked Berlin and Palembang!

 

[techumseh]

Palembang? What did those poor bastards do to deserve that?

 

[CurtSibling]

Japan stole the city from me, and by 1946 had a billion troops there. So I took the easy road!

 

[techumseh]