AI hiding their intentions in Diplo

[chazzycat]

I have to say I enjoy the way the AI pretends to be your friend when it's in their best interest but flips once you reveal yourself to be an enemy.

Example - one of my games this weekend I was playing as Russia/Standard/Continents/Emperor. I only had one war early - clearing the rival civ from my smallish continent. I finished him off post-Astronomy so everyone knew and a couple more squeamish leaders immediately branded me a warmonger. whatever. Around this time, I struck up a mutually beneficial relationship with England. We both had a couple luxuries to trade each other so it worked out nicely for hundreds of years - all "friendly" and "we desire peaceful relations with you". Never any warmonger hate listed in the diplo screen.

A ways down the road, I decide to go for diplo victory. The very first CS I bought was from England. This had no effect. They didn't even ask me to stop. This encouraged me to buy another one a couple turns later....then it became clear that Elizabeth was pissed. She immediately denounced me without even asking me to stop, and went to guarded after the denouncement. All that is fine with me, I would have preferred she ask me to stop first, but wahtever. The thing that caught my eye is that now in addition to the "we are competing for the same city-states" I was also penalized for being a "warmongering threat to the world".

When we were getting along fine and they wanted my luxuries, they don't care if I'm a warmonger, but now that they see I'm not helping them, they pull out every excuse to hate me and make me a pariah.

I like it.

 

[King Patrick]

It's also fun how you can see an AI psyching itself up for an attack via the diplomacy screen when you are behind militarily. All of a sudden they have all these problems with you, you are expanding too fast, you are building wonders they desire, etc. Then once you upgrade your defenses, everything goes back to normal and they are friendly again. It's like a propaganda campaign against you that gets called off once you're no longer easy pickings.

Then of course there are the truly deceptive civs who will be your friend right up until their troops cross your border.

 

[aatami]

Glad to see more and more people are realising that the diplo AI isn't the random insanity some people with only a little skills make it out to be.

 

[BobTheTerrible]

The bad part of the AI deception is that it gets annoying after many times. Deceptive AIs always pretend to be "Friendly" status, and there's usually several AIs like this in the game. This means that 2 or 3 civs you had always been friendly with can suddenly backstab you - and to many players on this forum, it feels like they're just "randomly" changing opnions.

In past civ games, it's been much more clear who is a friend and who is an enemy. In Civ V, it's much less apparent, and even more aggravating because there are few positive ways to increase your standing with other leaders. On the plus side, it does feel more like you're dealing with real rivals who hate your guts; and imagine what many many past AI civilizations in previous civ games must have felt when a "friendly" human player suddenly declares war.

 

[JWAT44]

The bad part of the AI deception is that it gets annoying after many times. Deceptive AIs always pretend to be "Friendly" status, and there's usually several AIs like this in the game. This means that 2 or 3 civs you had always been friendly with can suddenly backstab you - and to many players on this forum, it feels like they're just "randomly" changing opnions.

In past civ games, it's been much more clear who is a friend and who is an enemy. In Civ V, it's much less apparent, and even more aggravating because there are few positive ways to increase your standing with other leaders. On the plus side, it does feel more like you're dealing with real rivals who hate your guts; and imagine what many many past AI civilizations in previous civ games must have felt when a "friendly" human player suddenly declares war.

not being able to tell whether someone is a friend or enemy is more realistic *Cough US-Pakistan Cough*

 

[snarzberry]

I am getting rushed early WAY more often since the last patch on Imm/Deity. It's hard to come back if you get DoW'd on turn 33 have to defend for ages and have barely improved a tile by turn 100. I had a sneaky Suleiy warrior rush me early from 'Friendly' status which pretty much meant no developing for me in the BC's. Yes, Suleiman, my weakness is your opportunity and I was wrong to put any trust in you but good luck taking my capital with warriors and P.S. there's nothing to pillage as I don't even have a worker yet!

 

[svett89]

Sneaky AI:s is a good thing in my opinion, however, I agree on the fact that there are not enough ways of getting a better relationship with an AI who's angry with you. It's quite annoying when you try to play peacefully but the AI keeps being pissed at you. I played a game as Babylon where I was more or less isolated in a corner of a continent (a CS was covering the only way to reach the part I was on). I founded 5 cities and bunkered up for a science victory. I started no wars, had a decent defensive army, built only a few wonders and didn't steal city states from anyone. Yet half the Civs in the game started hating me halfway through the game, and no matter what I did, they refused to start liking me again. >:I

 

[King Patrick]

Some of the civs are more sensitive than others to victory conditions, and will start trying to drag you down diplomatically (or otherwise if they can) if they sense you are pulling too far ahead.

Agree that I'd like to see more options for building or restoring positive relations, like trade pacts could give you a (small) positive boost with that civ.

 

[Babri]

The bad part of the AI deception is that it gets annoying after many times. Deceptive AIs always pretend to be "Friendly" status, and there's usually several AIs like this in the game. This means that 2 or 3 civs you had always been friendly with can suddenly backstab you - and to many players on this forum, it feels like they're just "randomly" changing opnions.

Yeah that is the main problem. There should be no more than 2 or 3 civs like that (on a Huge Map). And the annoying is that you get diplo hit with other leaders just because you were fooled by a deceptive AI (your friend found a reason to denounce you). After all it is a game & it feels bad that you can't trust AI.

 

[SureYouCan]

The "Deceptive" AI is just bad. There aren't 2 to 3 civs like this. Nearly every leader has a 5+ "Deceptive" trait. Playing on Immortal now I'm getting DOW'ed by at least 1 "Friendly" AI in the first 35 turns every game.
In addition to this one AI there are 3-4 more "Friendly" AIs spamming me for open borders with their armies standing on my borders... Asking me for crazy trading agreements with their armies standing on my borders...

Yes it's nice to see "Friendly" AIs in a Friendship Pact with you declare war against your enemy, ask you for open borders 2 turns later, make peace with your enemy and then attack you. But it gets old, fast, seeing "Friendly" leaders who you have open trades with and denounced the same leaders massing their armies on your borders.

 

[swimslave]

Was this a result of the new patch? It happened to me for the first time this past weekend. I was getting along great with Arabia. We were trading and had a declaration of friendship. Then he declared war, cancelled two trade deals and our declaration. I was totally unprepared and was completely overwhelmed. In hundreds of hours of play before this weekend I had not seen anything like this. Unless there is some way to sniff out the deception I'm not really a fan.

 

[bronzeager]

AI has been backstabbing long before the recent patch... i like the unpredictability of it, though it can be annoying if you aren't prepared.

 

[chazzycat]

There is a way to sniff out the deception - trust nobody. Like in real life

IMO the only AI that should be completely subservient is one that was liberated and has no chance of winning the game.

 

[dexters]

sounds like the jobs of spies to sniff out which Civ are really your friends.

::cue espionage::

 

[Lyoncet]

I think my last game (the only game I've had to abandon as hopeless in probably over a dozen) had me on a continent of nothing but backstabbers, and Kamehameha, who got wiped out in the early 1st century AD. I did no warmongering, no attacking cities at all, and never did any friendships/denouncements. Regardless, I got declared on by:

Hiawatha
Suleiman
Alexander - this one MAY have been an opportunistic DoW (just based on my power being that much lower than his at this point), but he was friendly the turn before and said something about it being stupid of me to trust him, so I don't think so
Suleiman again
Harun al-Rashid (!)
Hiawatha again

I think every one of those except the last was an "I'm sick of pretending to be your buddy!" declaration. The last DoW by Hiawatha was a "I can't win but I have to do something" because by that point I was so angry at the AI that I'd abandoned my peaceful gameplan and started rolling over all the AIs, who seemed like they were on team play and permanent war anyways. So that one I deserved.

I really don't mind the deceptive factor, but I do agree that it's way too common. Perhaps it would be better to have deceptiveness be more randomized; i.e. in some games Suleiman may have his deceptiveness turned on and in some he may not. That would 1) keep down the number of backstabs and 2) make you wonder even more if he's genuinely your friend. Right now, anyone who I've pegged as a backstabber I'll automatically assume hates me; if that AI may not actually even be a backstabber this game, I'd have to adjust my behavior.

 

[Thry]

Glad to see more and more people are realising that the diplo AI isn't the random insanity some people with only a little skills make it out to be.

It is. They just made it less in the new patch by updating it.