AI Suggestion for Settling - what am I missing?

[Wlauzon]

Time after time the AI puts up it's blue circle to suggest the best place to settle.

What I can't figure out is why it NEVER suggests settling on the desert square, which is essentially worthless for anything else.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Well without being able to see the rest of the map, there could be lots of reasons. The desert tile wouldn't have access to fresh water, lowering its healthiness, especially when flood plains cause unhealthiness, you also wouldn't be able to build a levee, which is often a very substantial production increase.

I've had cities where every single tile is a river tile. I would gladly take a desert tile in my BFC in exchange for 20 extra hammers.

 

[Refar]

Hard to say by those 2 tiles we can see in picture...

However, most of the time those AI suggestions are stupid anyway

 

[Fi$h]

From the information available you are missing fresh water supply

 

[Incan Emperor]

I never follow the blue circle, the AI overlaps way too much for my taste, it will always tell me to settle 1-2 tiles away from another BFC overlapping 3+ tiles on every city.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

AI tile suggestions seemed wrong to me almost from the start of my play. Sometimes you need to get resources in the BFC quicker, or to wall something off, etc. Sometimes you know just NEED a production city and putting one where it has both the food and hills necessary is a requirement, to hell with the AI's standardized cottage spamming default nonsense.

Look at the potential given by the tiles, decide on the type of city you want, as well as other factors such as blocking AI's or securing important resources. Whatever you decide based on things like that will invariably be far superior to just setting up camp on blue circles.

 

[Morgrad]

The blue circle is almost always a reasonable city site for rookie players and a bad site for good players - I don't understand why people who routinely discourage people from following suggested builds, suggested tech paths, and suggested worker moves make such a big deal about the blue circle.

The AI ain't that bright. We already know that.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The blue circle is almost always a reasonable city site for rookie players and a bad site for good players - I don't understand why people who routinely discourage people from following suggested builds, suggested tech paths, and suggested worker moves make such a big deal about the blue circle.

The AI ain't that bright. We already know that.

It's because it's a crutch to lean on. I automated workers at first while learning the game mechanics (and still do, mostly after gaining a decently large # of cities where i don't care to micro them). Still, you can only learn so much by just listening to and playing like the computer. A key component in civ play is thinking things out for yourself (or with help from the ridiculously good players on a certain forum). The sooner rookies learn to do that, the sooner they can move up. Blue circle settling won't speed that process. Actually, it's probably much easier to learn city placement than where to spend worker turns, what to build/research next, etc...as the constraints and goals are smaller (usually, the city will be built for research, production, commerce, GP's, or in some cases a combination like GP/research. Far less potential objectives than the considerations of choosing a tech path for example, since the # of things that make a city good for a given purpose are finite).

 

[mourndraken]

Sometimes, and you really never can tell without the WB, it is alerting you to place with regards to a hidden resource.

 

[Wlauzon]

Hard to say by those 2 tiles we can see in picture...

However, most of the time those AI suggestions are stupid anyway

The point is, the AI NEVER EVER suggests building on a desert square in any game I have played since I got BTS. That particular ss was just an example.

I usually only follow the AI's blue circle if it coincides with my own opinion, or late in the game where all I care about is filling space, but was wondering if anyone knew the AI's reasoning.

And we all know that the AI is pretty poor at considering strategic placement of cities, such as on narrow strips for choke points etc., but that is not really the issue most of the time. One thing I have noticed is that the AI seems to place barbarians cities better than CIV cities.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Settling on a desert square is no different to settling on say a plains or grassland square though (one with no resources). You still get 2F1H1C. Same with tundra, ice.

I often try and settle on the lowest yield tile, so I'll pick plains over grassland to settle if I have a reasonable choice in the matter. This is so I get more good tiles in the BFC. (I'd rather settle on a plain than have to work it later).

 

[Wlauzon]

Settling on a desert square is no different to settling on say a plains or grassland square though (one with no resources). You still get 2F1H1C. Same with tundra, ice.

No but the point is, if you settle on that desert square, you ARE working it. It may not be good, but it gives you one less totally useless square.

 

[Kerran]

Came across this tonight, figured you might want to see it: the game DOES (very rarely, I admit, but it does happen ) suggest placing a city on a desert tile. In fact, the AI just plopped down a city on a desert tile to the SW as well. But you are correct in that it doesn't do this as often as us humans do. On that subject, since it's probably something to do with not evaluating the city tile beyond freshwater / def bonus, does anyone know if it considers the benefits of settling on a tile that gives more than 2f1h1c?

 

[vanatteveldt]

I often have the feeling that the algorithm mainly recommends the plot with the most available resources. Maybe it compares yield at size 6 or something? That would also explain not liking deserts that much, since that only really comes into play at very high city sizes...

 

[Wlauzon]

I have no idea what the algorithm is, this seems to be an area without much research done in it.

And the poster was correct that said that AI really does (rarely) suggest a desert square.

I guess what I need to do play with WB and see if I can find any patterns with various terrains.

 

[Airefuego]

Came across this tonight, figured you might want to see it: the game DOES (very rarely, I admit, but it does happen ) suggest placing a city on a desert tile. In fact, the AI just plopped down a city on a desert tile to the SW as well. But you are correct in that it doesn't do this as often as us humans do. On that subject, since it's probably something to do with not evaluating the city tile beyond freshwater / def bonus, does anyone know if it considers the benefits of settling on a tile that gives more than 2f1h1c?

That's some nice land you have there

And while the AI IS suggesting the desert tile for once, it's still a terrible choice compared to (say) 1NW

 

[Airefuego]

I often have the feeling that the algorithm mainly recommends the plot with the most available resources. Maybe it compares yield at size 6 or something? That would also explain not liking deserts that much, since that only really comes into play at very high city sizes...

Actually that's a good point. There are many games where most cities never reach size 20, so one tile here or there shouldn't be too big a deal. It's a bonus if you can settle on a desert instead of a grassland, but not critical if all other things are equal.

 

[r_rolo1]

I'll quote Bhruic on this one

The AI goes around the map and designates certain spots as places it's going to build a city (by "AI", I don't mean AI players, I mean the game AI, so it does this for the human player(s) as well). Once it's designated a spot for a city, when it's doing subsequent "should I build a city here" checks, it assumes there is already a city on that square. Hopefully the problem (using the word loosely) is obvious from that statement, but in case it's not...

 

[Incan Emperor]

That's some nice land you have there

And while the AI IS suggesting the desert tile for once, it's still a terrible choice compared to (say) 1NW

I like 1W better, with the Corn, Fresh Water, and Flood Plains is enough, you dont need to hoard it all for one city. I like to minimize unused usable tiles as well as overlap as much as posible.

 

[Napalm102]

The AI sees resources that you haven't discovered yet