Airplane limit per city

[adsin15]

I think this should return. 4 planes per city.

+4 if you have a Military Base

 

[adsin15]

I'd also like to see military buildings have more bonuses.

Arsenal +20% city ranged attack strength

Military Base +4 airplanes in city. +10 HP healed per turn for units stationed inside city walls

 

[hardcore_gamer]

Wasn't there some mod for Civ 4 that allowed you to create airfields as tile improvements that allowed you to base aircraft in? I would like to see that return.

 

[Jerman]

Sounds like a good change. I wish some one made a mod for that. Also I don thing missiles should count as planes.

 

[GhostSalsa]

This would be a good change because it would protect the AI from throwing away its entire airforce by putting it in the exact city I'm about to take.

 

[jbevermore]

I have to give especial props to adsin's idea about different buildings giving unique combat bonuses.

Would certainly make playing defense more interesting.

 

[kaspergm]

I think this should return. 4 planes per city.

+4 if you have a Military Base

It's actually not a bad idea to have a cap on number of Airplanes, could also add a unique building Airbase, although I agree Military Base is usually not worth the trouble to build. Currently, it's kind of lame how you can stack 20 Bombers in one town and then just kill anything within sight.

 

[mintcandy]

It's actually not a bad idea to have a cap on number of Airplanes, could also add a unique building Airbase, although I agree Military Base is usually not worth the trouble to build. Currently, it's kind of lame how you can stack 20 Bombers in one town and then just kill anything within sight.

I'd actually think it's more lame for someone to be so far ahead as to build 20 Bombers and not to have won the game long before that point.

 

[kaspergm]

Thank you for your constructive input to the discussion. But I guess that's a matter of game styles then.

 

[smallfish]

Here's a constructive point: how is the AI going to handle this without coming off as dumb?

 

[kaspergm]

Here's a constructive point: how is the AI going to handle this without coming off as dumb?

It probably isn't, but then again, seeing how inept the AI currently is in handling air combat and countering it, it's still probably going to be more of a help than a hinderance for it.

 

[smallfish]

It probably isn't, but then again, seeing how inept the AI currently is in handling air combat and countering it, it's still probably going to be more of a help than a hinderance for it.

So now the AI can only mass 4 airplanes per city, no rush buying in them, instead of being able to front 5-36 on the battlefield.

I'm not impressed.

 

[kaspergm]

So now the AI can only mass 4 airplanes per city, no rush buying in them, instead of being able to front 5-36 on the battlefield.

I'm not impressed.

The fact that AI doesn't rush-buy airplanes (which btw. they will after the fall patch) seems irrelevant in this discussion, as there's no rule against rush-buying. Limiting number of airplanes in city will hit everybody equally, AI as well as player, I'd even say it'll probably hit player harder than AI, but that may depend on difficulty level. Obviously one may be for or against the idea depending on taste, but it does seem a reasonable suggestion in terms of current 1upt game context.

 

[smallfish]

The fact that AI doesn't rush-buy airplanes (which btw. they will after the fall patch) seems irrelevant in this discussion, as there's no rule against rush-buying. Limiting number of airplanes in city will hit everybody equally, AI as well as player, I'd even say it'll probably hit player harder than AI, but that may depend on difficulty level. Obviously one may be for or against the idea depending on taste, but it does seem a reasonable suggestion in terms of current 1upt game context.

Counterpoint: this will force AI to base their airforce in limited naval platforms, and make them far more vulnerable to kills than placing them in a city. Also, a human player does not just rely on mass stacking of air force for mobile strikes and support.

Spoiler :

GhostSalsa does bring up a good point, however. The AI LOVES fronting their air force deathstacks, making them kinda easy to take out. However, I've always took this as a sign that this was them trying to signal to their opponents or observers that this was their front at the moment, and usually they will bring two kinds of things that will signal to the opposition of their diplomatic intentions

Spoiler :

I believe that the AI is trying to signal that it will escalate if it does not get its way... but barely manages to send out that critical message with its poor choice of wording.

Hence instead of an airplane stack limit, there should be an advanced "Escalation" set of modifiers/scenes when it comes to AI Diplomacy, where they will warn you that prolonging to war instead of accepting their demands/peace with Honor will force them to unleash their strategic arsenal(s). At the moment, AIs at war with you will come at certain moments to offer such terms, but they are usually over mundane stuff like killing one of your units or doing something... not relevant.

With "Escalation", however, Manhattan-capable AIs will now confront you with the threat of nuclear annihilation if you don't back down/surrender. Instead of "we must not let war define who we are, time for peace", they will cue you with "if you choose to let war define you, then we will be forced to go beyond the brink", and if you refuse their demand for 9000g and all your non-capital cities...

Conversely, the Human Player can also put forth such a warning to the AI to let their (nuke-happy) intentions be known. There will be new modifier(s) for all the leaders to see whether they will stand firm or blink, and they will be far more resistant if they have higher military demographics or higher difficulty level

I think this has much potential for advancing diplomacy options - for both AI and human, and also tie into a more modern-focused expansion in future.


e: tying into this Escalation... make the AI NOT instantly front all their major air units (bombers/atomics/nukes) unless tactical option for that city is EVEN (have this extend to whether their opponent has a nuclear missile within 10/12 tiles of said city too).

 

[kaspergm]

I think you overrationalize things, but I might be mistaking. I think AI places it units up front to have maximum reach and it fails to defend those cities properly because it is poorly coded. As I see it, the airplane stacking problem only makes AI weaker, because you can have one city and amass Airplane units in it and then take out everything from there, kind of works like a stack of doom, and AI is incapable of taking care of it. But granted, I play without nukes, with nukes things might look differently.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Wasn't there some mod for Civ 4 that allowed you to create airfields as tile improvements that allowed you to base aircraft in? I would like to see that return.

Pillaging would be super scary. Am keen.

 

[smallfish]

I think you overrationalize things, but I might be mistaking. I think AI places it units up front to have maximum reach and it fails to defend those cities properly because it is poorly coded. As I see it, the airplane stacking problem only makes AI weaker, because you can have one city and amass Airplane units in it and then take out everything from there, kind of works like a stack of doom, and AI is incapable of taking care of it. But granted, I play without nukes, with nukes things might look differently.

Dido and Harald were fighting over Barcelona for a number of turns. One turn Dido might take it, another Harald... then before that shot it was Dido/Harald on the same turn. Eventually Dido got fed up and fronted all her nukes to Madrid there, and some turns later both of them declared peace (helped that Dido lost a production city to the north to Wu).

There is potential to expanding this case of diplomacy, and with nukes, there is always Bomb Shelters (which AIs will build by this point) to prevent one-turn-nuke-their-airforce. Limiting stacking in cities will make it worse for the AI, because it will now force them to rely on limited air forces and base their excess air units on even more vulnerable units they can't properly handle.

 

[StrategyMaster4]

Great idea, makes things a bit more interesting....all the ideas here, actually.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

I'd actually think it's more lame for someone to be so far ahead as to build 20 Bombers and not to have won the game long before that point.

This ^

lol

 

[sizesixteens]

The main limitation on how much aircraft you can build is supposed to be resources (oil and aluminum). I think there's a bit too much of both on standard settings. I mean, 7 or even 8 from one tile? You can hit 30 of both without even trying.