AIs at higher difficulties shouldn't have some advantages.

[AIcivs]

Im okay with the happiness advantages, I only care about my empire's happiness.
Im also okay with their high GPD and their high culture, if they have that advantage.

I don't like it when they get to start with 2-4 techs in a game.
I also don't like it when they get to have more starting units.

I thought AIs at higher difficulties should be tactically/ strategically smarter, so the "easiest" hard difficulty for me are King and Emperor.

 

[Chum]

Im okay with the happiness advantages, I only care about my empire's happiness.
Im also okay with their high GPD and their high culture, if they have that advantage.

I don't like it when they get to start with 2-4 techs in a game.
I also don't like it when they get to have more starting units.

I thought AIs at higher difficulties should be tactically/ strategically smarter, so the "easiest" hard difficulty for me are King and Emperor.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=177544192

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=126959669

Those will solve your problem.

 

[Humantorch]

I'm 100% fine with all the advantages the a.i. has on deity. Take away those advantages and they couldn't warfare their way out of a paper bag.

My only gripe with immortal and deity is the infinite city spam. I enjoy conquering large civ territories but a city every 4 tiles in every direction forever is too much.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Let's just take hypothetical situation where AI on higher difficulties is indeed smarter. Let's put the whole 'what AI programming takes' discussion aside. Let's say it's very easy to program several AI's within one game budget ... Smarter AI on higher difficulties means dumber AI on lower difficulties. The problem is prince level player paid exactly the same price as deity player. Do you think he or she would be satisfied with a product of lesser quality? Would that be fair? At very least, right now we all can 'enjoy' the same crappy AI and infinite ranting about its dumbness.

If you insist to be serious, Firaxis is doing an excellent job at estimating demand and provides exactly what people expect to receive: immersive, graphically appealing empire building game with historical role playing flavor and elements of turn based strategy. And before you (or anybody else) claim that is not true, go and backtrack all ranting threads we get after each patch dealing with AI improvements and game balance.

 

[teqofc]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=177544192

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=126959669

Those will solve your problem.

That's ridiculous. You don't need mods to overcome the AI advantages on diety. If you aren't pulling ahead of the civs in science by turn 150 and surely by 180-200 you are either doing something wrong or rolled a horrible map.

The AI is dumb enough. It needs a head start on diety to make things a little interesting.

 

[Ryika]

That's ridiculous. You don't need mods to overcome the AI advantages on diety. If you aren't pulling ahead of the civs in science by turn 150 and surely by 180-200 you are either doing something wrong or rolled a horrible map.

The AI is dumb enough. It needs a head start on diety to make things a little interesting.

The OP said that he doesn't LIKE that the AI gets these bonuses, these mods remove the bonuses that he doesn't like. Does that make the game easier? Sure. Is that a problem? Not at all. Nobody said that anyone needs these mods to win, but if the OP actually enjoys the game more that way, then that's fine as long as he's okay with them making the game easier.

 

[teqofc]

The OP said that he doesn't LIKE that the AI gets these bonuses, these mods remove the bonuses that he doesn't like. Does that make the game easier? Sure. Is that a problem? Not at all. Nobody said that anyone needs these mods to win, but if the OP actually enjoys the game more that way, then that's fine as long as he's okay with them making the game easier.

Makes no sense. If you want the game easier then play an easier level. Like I already said the small tech lead civs start with on diety is easily overcome. The OP needs to learn on getting the lead rather than relying on a crutch. Seems like every week you'll see somebody asking why their science is so low on the Strategy & Tips forum and when they upload a saved game or screenie you can see exactly what they are doing wrong by not growing their cities enough and/or taking the wrong tech path. I used to be one of those guys and learned a lot from reading the forums.

Just check out Tabarnak's tradition guide or tommnt's Poland guide or Tich's Shoshone guide just to name a few. I remember when BNW came out when I was barely breaking 300 science at turn 180 and taking forever to finish a game. Nowadays if I'm not a minimum of 400 science at turn 150 then I know I did something wrong.

You won't get better relying on a mod to nerf things down.

 

[Ryika]

Makes no sense. If you want the game easier then play an easier level. Like I already said the small tech lead civs start with on diety is easily overcome. The OP needs to learn on getting the lead rather than relying on a crutch. Seems like every week you'll see somebody asking why their science is so low on the Strategy & Tips forum and when they upload a saved game or screenie you can see exactly what they are doing wrong by not growing their cities enough and/or taking the wrong tech path. I used to be one of those guys and learned a lot from reading the forums.

Just check out Tabarnak's tradition guide or tommnt's Poland guide or Tich's Shoshone guide just to name a few. I remember when BNW came out when I was barely breaking 300 science at turn 180 and taking forever to finish a game. Nowadays if I'm not a minimum of 400 science at turn 150 then I know I did something wrong.

You won't get better relying on a mod to nerf things down.

Of course that makes sense, don't be so ignorant. Imagine the AI had +2 Movement on all of their units to compensate for their horrible combat-AI and you didn't like it because it limits your tactical combat. Using a mod that removes their bonus movement would of course make the game easier, but it would also allow you to play the game the way you want, with all the tactical combat involved.

If he doesn't want the Ai to start with certain techs, because it limits his choices, but he still wants the AI to be somewhat difficult, then that's absolutely fine. It's not about "nerfing the AI to compensate for the lack of knowledge.", it's just about tailoring the game the way he enjoys playing it.

So yeah, as long as he doesn't want to get as good as possible as fast as possible, he actually doesn't have to do anything of what you've said, after all, it's a game, not a competition - he can play the game the way he wants and the way he likes it. Some people enjoy min-maxing the game "as is" and other people enjoy tailoring the game around what they think it should be. Both are valid.

 

[Mattzey]

I used to think the same thing as you, but i started winning easily, so just kept upping my difficulty and soon I was playing on immortal, just don't wonder spam on the higher difficulties

 

[The Pilgrim]

Some people enjoy min-maxing the game "as is" and other people enjoy tailoring the game around what they think it should be. Both are valid.

To be totally fair, while overall I agree with what you're saying, this thread's title isn't 'How do I tailor the game around my needs' but rather 'AI at higher difficulties should not be this and that'. I see the difference right there. How many post from imm/deity level players complaining about advantages humans get on lower levels you remember? Now compare this number to a number of posts similar to OP.

The truth is, for many (not necessarily the OP) it's just ego thing. They want to be able to say they play on high level without investing the time and effort into learning game mechanics and practicing strategy. Perhaps, some of them don't know where to start or believe improving is impossible. Some, most likely, can't imagine how much one's skill can change with dedication and training - you just need to know what to look for and where to look for it. And some really don't care what level they play on and other play on and just want to enjoy the game in a certain way. But you don't see the latter group complaining a whole lot, do you?

 

[danaphanous]

OP:

If you don't care to have the AI start with a tech lead and like everything else, and you also don't want mods, I recently discovered that when you start in a different era than ancient the AI has no tech advantage...everything else is identical. So if you kick up a game starting in the classical era, for example, the AI will have every advantage BUT their tech lead. I actually like doing this occasionally as the ancient era is kinda slow.

 

[Ryika]

To be totally fair, while overall I agree with what you're saying, this thread's title isn't 'How do I tailor the game around my needs' but rather 'AI at higher difficulties should not be this and that'. I see the difference right there. How many post from imm/deity level players complaining about advantages humans get on lower levels you remember? Now compare this number to a number of posts similar to OP.

Yes, I agree with that and I agree that these generalized statements that the op makes aren't really a good way to start a discussion, but he didn't reply to the op, he replied to the guy who linked the mods, called his post and the idea that someone would use mods to remove disadvantages instead of accepting the game the way it is (or just solves the problem by going down in difficulty which would lead to a totally different experience than just removing the starting techs) "ridiculous", which is a huge difference, because even if the op wasn't looking for that kind of solution it's still a viable way to play for other players.

 

[Humantorch]

Let's just take hypothetical situation where AI on higher difficulties is indeed smarter. Let's put the whole 'what AI programming takes' discussion aside. Let's say it's very easy to program several AI's within one game budget ... Smarter AI on higher difficulties means dumber AI on lower difficulties. The problem is prince level player paid exactly the same price as deity player. Do you think he or she would be satisfied with a product of lesser quality? Would that be fair? At very least, right now we all can 'enjoy' the same crappy AI and infinite ranting about its dumbness.

If you insist to be serious, Firaxis is doing an excellent job at estimating demand and provides exactly what people expect to receive: immersive, graphically appealing empire building game with historical role playing flavor and elements of turn based strategy. And before you (or anybody else) claim that is not true, go and backtrack all ranting threads we get after each patch dealing with AI improvements and game balance.

I don't understand why you're trolling me right now.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Yes, I agree with that and I agree that these generalized statements that the op makes aren't really a good way to start a discussion, but he didn't reply to the op, he replied to the guy who linked the mods, called his post and the idea that someone would use mods to remove disadvantages instead of accepting the game the way it is (or just solves the problem by going down in difficulty which would lead to a totally different experience than just removing the starting techs) "ridiculous", which is a huge difference, because even if the op wasn't looking for that kind of solution it's still a viable way to play for other players.

You are right. Chum's reply was very appropriate, I think. Seems like it left the OP speechless.

I don't understand why you're trolling me right now.

Dude, you need to relax. My post has nothing to do with you.

 

[Convict]

I don't particularly like the advantages either.

However, I am not a programmer (well since Basic fell into disfavour) so I'm not certain how higher levels could be more difficult without giving the AI advantages.

 

[teqofc]

Well I see this thread has degraded into name calling so this is my last post. The funny thing is that the tech advantage is the easiest thing to over come in diety. The aggressive city spam is the hardest part.

OP, if you are struggling with the tech advantage then best advice is to start with Babylon and beeline to writing and plant your scientist. You'll zoom through all the ancient era techs so fast that the civs won't know what hit them Especially if you combine that with 1 or 2 trade caravans.

 

[Chum]

Well I see this thread has degraded into name calling so this is my last post. The funny thing is that the tech advantage is the easiest thing to over come in diety. The aggressive city spam is the hardest part.

That's great but that's not what the thread is about.

Dude thinks the AI shouldn't have the tech advantages or the unit advantages. Fine, done. Problem solved.

Now, whether you personally disagree with that is another topic entirely, but it's not productive to have that discussion within the context of this one. It's also not productive to get salty about it because you think the thread is degrading to somewhere you don't approve of it being when you were the one that started it on that track.

 

[teqofc]

That's great but that's not what the thread is about.

Dude thinks the AI shouldn't have the tech advantages or the unit advantages. Fine, done. Problem solved.

Now, whether you personally disagree with that is another topic entirely, but it's not productive to have that discussion within the context of this one. It's also not productive to get salty about it because you think the thread is degrading to somewhere you don't approve of it being when you were the one that started it on that track.

Geeze all I tried to do was offer some advice on overcoming the odds. I didn't call anybody ignorant like someone did to me. I offered a completely logical explanation on why you don't need to nerf the tech advantage.

How is that any different from the logical responses to overcoming the aztec jaguars in the "nerf the Aztecs please" thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=528505? Imagine if I had come on that thread and said "hey here's a mod that removes the aztec jaguar advantage. Fine done. problem solved".

 

[Ryika]

Geeze all I tried to do was offer some advice on overcoming the odds. I didn't call anybody ignorant like someone did to me. I offered a completely logical explanation on why you don't need to nerf the tech advantage.

OP: "I really don't like my meal that spicy."
Answer: "Well, take more rice and less chilly sauce."
You: "That's ridiculous, I learned to eat those spicy meals, so you should too. If you can't overcome that meal, then you're probably doing it wrong. Read some guides on how to eat spicy meals!"

Don't you see how your answer doesn't have anything to do with the actual topic? Just because someone doesn't LIKE a spicy meal doesn't mean that he's not able to eat a spicy meal. And even if he's not able to eat a spicy meal, he might even prefer not to try and instead enjoy his semi-spicy rice-heavy meal. He might be able to beat Diety or he might not be able to beat Deity - that's really not the topic, you're adding that in because you are biased by other threads.

I told you that you're offtopic, you answered by re-phrasing and adding to your first post and again telling me that he just has to become better to overcome the AI, when that might not even be what the OPs intention was. So yeah, that's the very definition of being ignorant - you don't seem to understand the difference, you don't seem to understand why these mods were linked as a possible solution and you don't accept that other people may prefer other solutions than you. The way you answered was just very close-minded and not at all constructive or adding anything to the discussion.

 

[teqofc]

The way you answered was just very close-minded and not at all constructive or adding anything to the discussion.

All I offered was a way to overcome the odds. I gave suggestions and mentioned some guides. That's it. Do you work with kids at all? Do you now the type of people that always suggest an easy way out of a situation to a kid? Do you get upset when somebody else suggests a different way that requires some effort and call them ignorant? That's what is really going on here.

Overcoming the odds is what makes life challenging and interesting and I gave a pretty good explanation why you can overcome the tech advantage. Why you guys are attacking me for that is what is astounding. I guess you seem to have an issue with the word "ridiculous" since I've seen it quoted so many times. How about we substitute "ridiculous" with "unnecessary"?