AI's in a traffic jam (rant I suppose)

[Fizpez2]

So I am early in a new game last night (Emporer/Continents/Siam) and I'm at war with Monty and the only approach to the only city I can attack due to landmass/ocean is his captial - I've got iron and am attacking with 2 swords (more inbound)/2 cats and an archer or two. He's captial is on a hill, other side of a stream and he's got an archer in the city/an archer outside the city and a few jags moving around - all in all it looks like he's presenting a credible defense strategy.

The ENTIRE approach to his city is forrest/hills and the city is at the bottleneck of a two tile wide peninsula - there literally isn't a single grassland/plain on the entire accessible side of the city. Movement is going to be painfully slow and I am going to take plenty of damage from the city/archer combo.

So as I begin to lure out his jags and start lining up to move into assult range Washington wanders down two scouts mixed in with my troops and proceeds to STAND THERE AMONG MY TROOPS for at least 10 turns. I'm already being funneled to three possible attack squares through 1 move/turn territory and I have two roadblocks dropped in place by a third party. And it's not like they moved in, realized they couldnt continue on and moved away, they JUST STOOD THERE. It seems like I've had this happen before but never two units and never in such a tight spot.

ARGHHHH!

/of course maybe he know's he's next... he is on my continent and its pretty much required that you try to purge your main continent of opposition.

 

[builer680]

This happens to me nearly every game. I consider it a problem, since purportedly a neutral Scout should be exploring the land for City States and resources, instead of running screens for its "fellow" AI.

They also often do this in neutral territory, but in bottlenecks between cities so that my Workers must find another way.

But I'm not entirely sure it's considered a problem by the devs. Maybe they think it's an "intelligent" way to use all available AI units, even if they don't belong to the Civ you are fighting. Or some might say that it's smart to hinder any opponent (neutral or otherwise) as much as possible...

Of course, by hindering me in my attack, he's also helping someone else. So that would seem to be a wash. Except that I"m the human, of course.

Even better, this early in the game I'm usually behind in score and the guy I'm attacking is ahead in score, so theoretically according to the "hinder the highest Civ and/or the human school of AI Diplomacy," the neutrals should be happy to see the higher guy getting taken down a notch. But then... if my taking that city would make me the new highest score that's no good either, so it might be good to just stand there and make it harder to attack the city.

ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: LOGIC FEEDBACK LOOP: SYSTEM SHUTDOWN: ERROR: ERROR:

Who knows? Honestly, I just kill the damn thing. Keeping peace with the AI's isn't much worth hassles like this (or worse) to me, even for the RA's... which I don't use too much even on Deity.

 

[Becephalus]

This happens to me nearly every game. I consider it a problem, since purportedly a neutral Scout should be exploring the land for City States and resources, instead of running screens for its "fellow" AI.

They also often do this in neutral territory, but in bottlenecks between cities so that my Workers must find another way.

But I'm not entirely sure it's considered a problem by the devs. Maybe they think it's an "intelligent" way to use all available AI units, even if they don't belong to the Civ you are fighting.

They are stuck there BECAUSE its a bottleneck, just like you are. There is no evil AI conspiracy. I wish the AI was that smart.

Often scouts come into war zones because new paths open up.

Personally I think you should be able to kill third party units in enemy territory without a DoW since 1upt makes it such a big issue.

 

[builer680]

They are stuck there BECAUSE its a bottleneck, just like you are. There is no evil AI conspiracy. I wish the AI was that smart.

Often scouts come into war zones because new paths open up.

Personally I think you should be able to kill third party units in enemy territory without a DoW since 1upt makes it such a big issue.

This conversation won't go well with a beginning like this... but I'll try anyway.

The Scout could move because it can walk through other units. Workers (non-military units) can't. I'd draw an ASCII map to illustrate this but I'm too lazy.

Also, running screens for other Civs is not due to a bottleneck. They most certainly are actively moving back from the direction they had been heading in order to intentionally sit and Fortify on a tile needed by the Human player to carry on his attack. For multiple turns, frequently with multiple Scouts from multiple Civs. With ways out if it wanted to (walking through other units as all military units can do, no ZoC issues because I wasn't at war with the neutral Scout yet, and it had Open Borders with the Civ I'm attacking). And then later moving only once your army has moved on, but you still have LoS from another unit or your borders so you can see it move.

This happens to me, like I said, nearly every game (likely because I play a lot of Small maps). It's not a huge deal, I just declare war on them now and kill it anyway, but it is certainly annoying to me. I'm not saying it's some AI "conspiracy," but I am saying that the AI has at least an idea of what it's doing from its programming.

Whether this is a "problem" is really a matter of what you personally think the AI should be trying to achieve. I consider it a problem because I believe at least the appearance of neutrality should be maintained for a while, even though we know everyone will gang up on you later. Running screens for other Civs is blatantly not neutral.

But you might not hold that same belief, and therefore don't find it a problem. That's cool too.

 

[Babri]

Solution/Possible fix : 1UPT per civ i.e one tile can contain two military units belonging to different civs. However only one unit can attack if a tile contains 2 units.

 

[Stilgar08]

Solution/Possible fix : 1UPT per civ i.e one tile can contain two military units belonging to different civs. However only one unit can attack if a tile contains 2 units.

Yeah, you wish... But seriously: WOULD be a good idea! But maybe it would be too dificult for the kids to play...

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

This conversation won't go well with a beginning like this... but I'll try anyway.

The Scout could move because it can walk through other units. Workers (non-military units) can't. I'd draw an ASCII map to illustrate this but I'm too lazy.

The Scout can move through units, but it can't if it doesn't have enough movement points to get through the rows of attacking force to an open tile right? He said he had catapults and archers with his force so I am assuming it is two deep or more at the bottleneck. Without a screenshot, it is hard to tell if there is anywhere the scout could go.

On the AI tactic itself, I agree with the response that says they did it because there is a path and the scouts want to go explore open paths. On the other hand, it's kind of a clever tactic to try as a human.

 

[basta]

I've DoW'd just to get rid of a stuck scout and have bought neutral tiles to move CS units out of the way, so yeah, this is a real problem.

And it's not just battlefields, lots of AI units look like they just get forgotten, but scouts and spammed settlers without a cranny to lodge into are particularly annoying, because they are never disbanded. Surely this can be easily coded--no movement, no new or no open tile after 20 turns=disband.

 

[Babri]

Yeah, you wish... But seriously: WOULD be a good idea! But maybe it would be too dificult for the kids to play...

So kids can get schooling from civfanatics.