American Football: Who would you take in the first round of the Draft?

[tcjsavannah]

More and more you're seeing NFL players come through non-traditional means... junior college ranks or smaller DII/NAIA schools. I remember Otis Sistrunk, who used to play for the Raiders in the 70s, was another player who did not go to college. They used to introduce him facetiously as attending "the University of Mars"...

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by Zamphyr
Great Thread here..

wtiberon explained it well. With the salary cap, there is a set limit on the amount you can spend on your players. Teams with more supporters (Cowboys and Raiders) DO make more money. It is spent on training facilities or just goes into the owners pockets. Ah, the American way.

Actually these teams don't make much more money than other teams because of the revenue sharing.

For Example: Denver plays at Green Bay who pulls in a total revenue of 20 million (This includes parking, consession, tickets, merchandise, Etc) they each split 10 million a piece. A few games later for arguments sake GB plays Denver. Denver because of its larger stadium pulls in a cool 30 million. They still split it 15 mil a piece. So even though Denver made 10 million more than Green bay they get the same amount. The only way for a team to make more than any other team is to consistantly play in high revenue stadiums. This is difficult and usually evens itself out between teams so there you go. It is just another way for the NFL to keep teams on an even keel.

Personally I think it works well because between the Revenue sharing and the Salary Cap the NFL is the most competitive sport in the world. NOONE can predict the superbowl champion at the beginning of the season anymore and stopped trying after the Ravens won . In the NFL any team can beat any team. The day of the super dominate team has gone. I think its for the better although I do sometimes miss the days of the Dynasties.

You live near Giants Stadium eh? I bleed deep blue and have since 86 and Simms. You a Giants or Jets fan...if you say Both I'll have to slap ya .

To get OT, which no one has done yet, Cincy should trade down. If they think one of the QB's(Palmer/Leftwich) is the answer, there will be trouble in camp with Kitna and Akili Smith. Someone will have to be moved. They seem to pick offense every year and it usually backfires. Despite having a great RB, they never score much. With a new defensive-minded coach, they should probably see if they can move to the 3 or 4 spot and pick Terrell Suggs.

Personally, I hope they botch it again. Just as there are dominant teams, Cincy is a perrenial doormat. Plus, I want the Cowboys to have a shot at Suggs. Parcells would be beside himself.

Cincy will never trade down I think there is something in the water over there. I think they hold the record for the most number one picks and have never traded down. The problem with Cincinatti is they don't have an owner that WANTS to win. He has family members running the most crucial parts of his team instead of experts So unless some kind of miracle happens they will stay in the cellar.

As far as the Cowboys....I hate the cowboys. But I love Bill Parcells since he was the greatest Giants coach ever. So I'm torn...I want to see Parcells turn that team around but I don't want them to start beating up on my Giants again like they did in the early to mid 90s.

 

[MrPresident]

American Football stadiums are HUGE and very expensive so having two stadiums in the same city would not be acceptable

How huge is huge? Because in London there are a hell of a lot of teams each with their own stadium and then there was also the national stadium (currently being redeveloped. I use the term currently very loosely).

Some can even play with broken arms

There was a goalkeeper quite a few years ago who broke his neck during the FA cup final and played. Admittely he didn't know he had broken his neck and but still that's commitment.

They just don't have the size and strength to compete with the big boys.

Aren't there any positions where it is about skill not strength?

Personally I think it works well because between the Revenue sharing and the Salary Cap the NFL is the most competitive sport in the world.

Depends what you mean by competitive. In the Premiership anyone can beat anyone at anytime. However there are three or four teams who always challenge for the title and four or five teams who always struggle against relegation every season. I don't know if you would call that competitive but I certainly do.

NOONE can predict the superbowl champion at the beginning of the season

Must be hell for the bookies.

I have a question about owners. Are American football teams public companies? Meaning do they have shareholders? Are does one owner own the whole team and he can pretty much do what he wants?

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by MrPresident

How huge is huge?

I mean HUGE. Here is a link to NFL stadiums if you want to check it out.

http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/

I have a question about owners. Are American football teams public companies? Meaning do they have shareholders? Are does one owner own the whole team and he can pretty much do what he wants?

It is against league policy for NFL teams to be anything but family own. If the person owning it owns a corporation the NFL team cannot have ANYTHING to with it. The rules are strict in order to keep teams from becoming run by companies like Coke or whatever. The owner has to answer to the League and other owners but pretty much can do as he or she wishes.

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by MrPresident



Aren't there any positions where it is about skill not strength?

NFL Football as I have said is a very competitive sport...the best of the best athletes play the sport (due to the high salaries most likely) and all positions take a huge dose of Skill, Strength and speed. If you don't have all three you don't last very long within the League.

 

[MrPresident]

I mean HUGE.

They are very huge indeed. Biggest stadium in England is Old Trafford which holds about 65,000 and the biggest in Britain is the Millenium stadium which holds about 80,000. The new Wembley will hold 90,000 but they should build it much larger (demand for England games is very large as you can imagine).

NFL Football as I have said is a very competitive sport...the best of the best athletes play the sport (due to the high salaries most likely) and all positions take a huge dose of Skill, Strength and speed.

Yeah but are there any positions where strength and size don't matter? Do you have to be a certain physical combination to play the game? Like in Basketball where everyone has to be really tall to play.

The rules are strict in order to keep teams from becoming run by companies like Coke or whatever.

Why? I thought corporations were the American way?

 

[tcjsavannah]

The Green Bay Packers are the only publicly-held NFL franchise, every other franchise has a majority owner. Coincidentally, the Packers occupy the smallest market area among NFL teams, so that tells you something about how dedicated that area is to the sport and their franchise.

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by tcjsavannah
The Green Bay Packers are the only publicly-held NFL franchise, every other franchise has a majority owner. Coincidentally, the Packers occupy the smallest market area among NFL teams, so that tells you something about how dedicated that area is to the sport and their franchise.

THATS RIGHT! I forgot about the Packers...they play in a small market known as Green Bay, Wisconsin. Waaaaaaaaaaay back in the day the team was either going to fold or move I forget which and the town who were VERY fanatical about their team initiated a public buy. I forgot about that thanks TCjsavannah

Yeah but are there any positions where strength and size don't matter? Do you have to be a certain physical combination to play the game? Like in Basketball where everyone has to be really tall to play.

Kicker and punter are about the only skill position where size does not matter. There are some Defensive Backs that can get buy on speed instead of strength like Deon Sanders who is one of the greatest cornerbacks of all time however they have to be strong enough to tackle other players. The Quarterback position is a highly skilled position but he still needs to be strong enough to be able to take multiple hits (Quarterbacks take more hits than anyone in the NFL so much so they have created rules to alleviate the constant injuries they suffer). Some Wide Recievers and Runningbacks can get by on speed as well but they have to be able to take a hit same as the quarterback. Other than that size does matter especially offensive lineman who are in excess of 300 lbs.

 

[Rhye]

Having two or more stadiums in a city isn't always true.

In Milan, Inter and AC Milan share the San Siro
In Rome, Lazio and AS Roma share the Olimpico (and the old Flaminio is left empty).
The sharing is possible with the season calendar that doesn't allow both teams to play home the same day.

 

[MrPresident]

Having two or more stadiums in a city isn't always true.

Maybe it's just the British. For example the team I support Liverpool has a 44,000 seat stadium and across a park (Stanley Park) Everton have a 36,000 (ish) seat stadium. We certainly do love our stadiums.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by MrPresident
Maybe it's just the British. For example the team I support Liverpool has a 44,000 seat stadium and across a park (Stanley Park) Everton have a 36,000 (ish) seat stadium. We certainly do love our stadiums.

I don't think it's just the British, but for many clubs it's simply a matter of revenue. The difference between 36,000 and 44,000 seats is not really that big, but for example in Munich the Olympic stadium has (I think) about 63,000 seats while 1860's own stadium had just 28,000 or so. The new Allianz Arena will have 66,000.
So some years ago they decided (much against the will of their true fans) to hold their home games in the Olympic stadium, where Bayern Munich plays as well. The ironic thing is that except for one or two games in a year they have less than 28,000 spectators now.

St. Pauli also held at least a local Derby (against the Hamburger SV) in the HSV's stadium (even much more than in 1860's case to the anger of their fans), because it's way bigger.


Btw, very interesting thread.

 

[MrPresident]

Yeah but Hitro aren't British stadiums the best in Europe? I think this is due to the Thompson report following the Hillsborough disaster. The result of that was high-quality all-seater stadiums with easy access to the pitch for the fans, meaning they are very close to the action.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by MrPresident
Yeah but Hitro aren't British stadiums the best in Europe?

Hard to tell in general. I agree that the typical British type of a pure football stadium is (naturally) better than a multi-purpose stadium, which has for example in Germany been very common until football became all about money.
The stadiums had a running track around the field, in the way of a typical Olympic stadium, so that athletics competitions could be held there as well.
In most stadiums that decreased the atmosphere compared with a stadium where the fans are directly next to the pitch, especially when it's not sold out. The Olympic stadium in Munich for example has absolutely no atmosphere if it's not really full, though it has a very interesting acoustic when it is (it was sold out when I was there, once).

The result of that was high-quality all-seater stadiums with easy access to the pitch for the fans, meaning they are very close to the action.

As I said the low distance between the fans and the action is indeed a great advantage of pure football stadiums. But concerning the all-seater idea (which of course makes sense from a security point of view) I'm not that sure. Maybe that's because I always stood in a pure standing room "curve" of the stadium in the 80's, when I started to be interested in it. After Hillsborough that also began to change here, but many fans still prefer standing room, after all you stand up all the time anyway.
Dortmund's stadium still has a huge standing room tribune, the biggest in Europe I think.

Which leads back to the initial question. I won't say it's British stadiums per se, it is pure football stadiums. Dortmund's Westfalenstadion is an example for that.

 

[MrPresident]

The Olympic stadium in Munich for example has absolutely no atmosphere if it's not really full, though it has a very interesting acoustic when it is (it was sold out when I was there, once).

The acoustics are very interesting especially when the crowd is chanting 5-1 to the Eng-ger-land!

After Hillsborough that also began to change here, but many fans still prefer standing room, after all you stand up all the time anyway.

There has been a movement to reintroduce terraces here because many feel the Thompson report went too far. Also you are not allowed to stand up here all the time (the announcer shouts at you if you do). And no one dares do it when my mother goes to a game. At one England game she grabbed the flag of a little kid sitting in front of us because it was blocking her view.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by MrPresident
The acoustics are very interesting especially when the crowd is chanting 5-1 to the Eng-ger-land!

Or Bomben auf Eng-ge-land!

But what I mean is the effect when (for example) a goal is scored. Hard to describe.

There has been a movement to reintroduce terraces here because many feel the Thompson report went too far. Also you are not allowed to stand up here all the time (the announcer shouts at you if you do).

Really? Now that sounds annoying.
But I'd be interested to see a match in England one day. Too bad Werder probably won't qualify for the UEFA Cup again.

And no one dares do it when my mother goes to a game. At one England game she grabbed the flag of a little kid sitting in front of us because it was blocking her view.

What did the kid say?

 

[MrPresident]

Or Bomben auf Eng-ge-land!

Ahh...happy memories...

What did the kid say?

Nothing. What can you say? Err...excuse me mad woman but that's my flag and I will wave it any way I damn well like. I don't think she would have made it out of the ground alive if she had said that.

 

[Zamphyr]

You live near Giants Stadium eh? I bleed deep blue and have since 86 and Simms. You a Giants or Jets fan...if you say Both I'll have to slap ya .

As I said, I'm a Dallas fan, probably due to the fact that the rest of the family are Giants fans. I like Giants fans. Most of them(like my dad) stuck thru the hard times and were rewarded with the 86-90 years when many(like my bro and yourself) were discovering football. Giants fans always seemed more real and dedicated whereas Jets fans always seem like drunk 30 yr olds. Nothing wrong with either, just seemed like Jets fans were more likely to be "closet Jets fans" until the team does well.

Looks like the NFL likes Parcells in Dallas; look for a Week2 Monday nighter at Giant Stadium...

What do you think of the Giants chances this year ? Who/what do they need to draft ? I love their young corners(wish Dallas had half as good) but I think the Giants O-line coach is gonna have his hands full again this year. Also, can Tiki have another career year or was last season just the beginning ?

 

[wtiberon]

Yeah I saw you were a Dallas fan but usually people have a favorite then root for the home team.

Giants are looking good especially with Jeremy Shocky who is the first reliable offensive weapon they have had in such a long time. Amani Toomer and Ike Hilliard are solid Wide Recievers and Kerry Collins while not a super star I believe is the most talented Quarterback the Giants ever had (not best just most talented). Defense is strong as usual which is the Giants bread and butter and if Tiki Barber can continue his all-pro running we have a VERY good chance to take the Division. Eagles are the only roadblock as I can see since Dallas will be rebuilding and Washington is well...Washington.

 

[wtiberon]

DP

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by MrPresident
The result of that was high-quality all-seater stadiums with easy access to the pitch for the fans, meaning they are very close to the action.

Again, it is not always true. (unfortunately)

In fact in Italy (but I guess it's the same in Spain, Greece, etc) easy access to the pitch for the fans means invasion of the field by the people at the end of EVERY match (and even before the end)
So there are high walls, barbed wire fences, police with dogs, etc. to prevent an invasion which could disturb the match, harm the grass and be a serious problem if there's a contact with the opposite team supporters.
Invasions are common the last match of the year, expecially if there's something to celebrate. In that cases police allow people to enter the pitch at the end of the match.
Here's an example of this last case, the promotion of my city's team in Serie B (the equivalent to English First Division)