An advanced guide to the specialist economy for emperor and above

[Agramon]

My first attempt with SE was Oracle-MC-Slingshot like in Sisiutils Alc Germany (Fred: phi, exp Warlords). Very good example btw. On prince the Oracle-MC-Slingshot works quite well for me ;-) now. After some fiddling around my first attempt with India was such a good start that I got bored too early.

My recent game with Boudicca I slightly overexpanded up to a point where I had to micromanage to not go broke. I moved Palace to Cottage site (unfortunately before CS, obviously too much production to spare ;-p) in center to reduce upkeep. I had ignored sailing and currency, which hit me hard. I had to mm a lot of scientists to work commerce and assign much commerce yielding terrain and not developed cottages, after tackling my second opponent.

So it seems even with SE the TRE income cannot be neglected, especially if you have no Merchants to assign (no markets/currency) and no religion founded.

My science seemed to have a turning point, somewhere between my first Glib Academy and the two next settled Scientists. With 3 Scientist and two forced I in Science City I managed to keep up (with some more Scientist in other cities forced). It seems to work without philo, though you have to chop the Mids.

I don't think phi is so much of an advantage, though I might have missed out on a scientist or too, that would have helped and the Oracle-MC-Slingshot doesn't work. It seems to me you really only miss the "first" GP (though that one might have been useful), but could compensate by another useful trait like agg, chm or cre.

 

[teks]

This strategy works great with alexander who has an axemen UU in BTS, and I'm greek so of course I have to play the Greeks every other game. Aggressive is great with a early barracks for specialized Phalanx, though I always get pissed off when my phalanx dies to a horseman, or a knight, because he still has a freaking spear its just not fair!! AHH!!!!!!!
ahem..
so yeah I just had to post about how I've been enlightened after reading this guide, and I will never play civ4 the same again. Hell even thinking about how I used to play before reading this guide makes me feel ashamed, and stupid.
Awesome guide. Very detailed, very specific even, and all at the same time easy to read and comprehend. your english teacher must be very proud.

 

[feralminded]

No no this is definitely my mistake. I have only played and won Ramsses twice on emperor (and now once on immortal with a perfect start) but I don't think I've ever run into an AI without archers at these levels ... I was confusing it with lower levels where it is possible to gank an AI pre-archery with the war chariot rush ... of course thats no more impressive than an axe rush so no big deal. Again I was mixing up my details ... my apologies.

 

[feralminded]

I don't think phi is so much of an advantage, though I might have missed out on a scientist or too, that would have helped and the Oracle-MC-Slingshot doesn't work. It seems to me you really only miss the "first" GP (though that one might have been useful), but could compensate by another useful trait like agg, chm or cre.

Well phi isn't strictly necessary but in my (admittedly limited compared to many around here) experience phi really is the only way to play the GP-bulb tech-fest that the deity players love. Basically they don't settle their GPs, they just rush through the tech tree and end up at Lib crazy early (not sure what they do from there though, my end game is pretty weak).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well phi isn't strictly necessary but in my (admittedly limited compared to many around here) experience phi really is the only way to play the GP-bulb tech-fest that the deity players love. Basically they don't settle their GPs, they just rush through the tech tree and end up at Lib crazy early (not sure what they do from there though, my end game is pretty weak).

Trade for other techs, and use a military advantage to capture enough land to negate the AI bonuses, typically.

 

[mboettcher]

On the Great prophet GOld city

Why limit ourselves so much?

Great Merchants are the best at not only producing gold but they also provide extra food for even more specialists. I alays make my gold city the prohpet and merchant city. Especially under caste system where I can run a high food city with lots of merhcants and produce a good half dozen to settle and produce gold in the Caste system era.

 

[mboettcher]

NO mention of the obsurd building discounts from org trait in BTS that facilitate a rapid and smooth transition between ages including many of the expensive buildings like factories. Very poor oversight in my eyes and a very powerful trait for an economy that has no problem research and getting to a new age but difficulty exploiting it. Freddy in BTS is undoubtly one of the top 3 SE leaders yet no explanation of why or how his traits blend an SE with his civ's tech's and UB so well. NO mention of TWO extra Eng's and the minor fact that he builds the APlant at 50% faster and half cost? Hmm thats a leap and a half into ind age if I;ve ever seen one....

 

[feralminded]

Organized is just a solid trait overall but I don't think it particularly favors SE over anything else. Honestly my issue with Organized is that the only benefit I really squarely feel is the courthouse. The lighthouse is situational and by the time I can build factories the game is mostly already decided (that and the fact that I don't build many factories even when it isn't). No doubt the courthouse bonus alone is pretty sweet because its one of those buildings that you need everywhere and is just expensive enough that whipping it is tough ... but with organized I believe its a 2 pop whip which is fine. Still that alone doesn't make it super compelling.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

An SE produces less commerce... that's why organized does more for an SE than a CE... (the cheaper courts are a bonus for warmongers, both SE and CE ones)

Cheers

 

[Iranon]

For a production-oriented SE that doesn't shy away from initial investments, Organised is a very worthwhile trait because we are likely to run 2 high-upkeep civics and focus on a large number of relatively small cities (whipping infrastructure is easy, and small sizes equals better whips anyway).

With 2 high-upkeep and 3 medium-upkeep civics (Representation/Bureaucracy/Slavery/Mercantlism/Organised Religion), ORG saves roughly 1.4 per city and 0.35 per population. For each size 10 city, that's 4.9 gold + inflation saved, which I find quite impressive.
Since we're likely to have more cities and more pop than a Cottage Empire of the same size, our gains can easily be larger than theirs from Financial... and this is before considering that we also get building discounts!

***

Things are a little different in a more austere SE that's relying mostly on Great People generation and, once there, emphasises drafting.

If we were to end up with Representation/Nationhood/Caste System/State Property/Pacifism (Still being in Pacifism is a bit of an extreme case but not entirely unrealistic), Organised would save us roughly 0.5 per city and 0.125 per population. Associated savings for a 10-pop city would be 1.75 + inflation, which is rather pitiful.

***

I'd say Organised can be very very attractive if one plans to run a SE of the first kind, possibly more so than PHI. For the second kind, it's mediocre at best.

 

[zizzeus]

I must admit, I developed this guide a while back in Vanilla, then forgot about it. I quickly updated it for BTS after playing only 3 games or so, and assumed a few things that didn't really pan out. I now see the value of the organized trait mid-late game and agree that philosophical is not absolutely necessary. (Thanks to everyone for your advice in this area).

Obviously it depends on how large your empire is going to be, and if you want to make war in the medieval era or wait until rifling. You may not even get to Communism before you've locked it up, so state property is not an option. In recent games at Emperor and Immortal, I've found that if I don't get a few generals early, my troops can't specialize enough with promotions to take on the score leader, or I have to run some civics that I don't want.

With room to expand, late game UU and UB, or space race victory type, organized is money. For my preferred style with an early classical war and again with cats/maces, I still think philosophical guarantees us tech parity better during this time period, and the experienced troops + generals allow warfare in the industrial age even if behind in tech. I may be a little biased though - recently I decided from the get go that I would try space race, and selected Peter. Just my luck I drew an isolated start (large island, 9 cities, connected by coast) but on the other mainland was Asoka, Mansa Musa, and Joao. Good luck keeping up with those three in tech when they share a (different than my) religion and don't make war. Grrrrrr.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I'm really confused by this one . You say you stay in Mercantilism till the games end, for the free specialist, well, with Democracy and Statue of Liberty, you gain another free specialist for THAT CONTINENT, so why your not building that, forget the civics I agree, but BUILD THE SOL.

On Economic civics, I find FREE MARKET, to be a very powerful civic. Your not going to be in war 100% of the time, rarely above 10% I find. I've found this civic ALONE, allows me to raise my science slider by 20-40% ALONE.

There are 3 Turbo chargers to your economy;

1. Astronomy and Foreign Trade Routes.

2. Free Market, add in Customs Houses

3. Biology +1 food from your farms, of which you may have 10/city= 5 specialists

This, combined with the U.N. Resolutions for Free trade (+1 trade routes) and open Markets (trade routes with all cities), add in the BTS Buildings of Customs house (100% foreign trade routes), and your swimming in cash.

I too used to stay in Mercantilism, but have now turned around to free market. The 1 specialist, is easily swallowed up by the trade routes gained, which can easily exceed 10+ gold/route * 4 Routes (corporation, currency, 2 stating routes) 5th from free trade U.N. Resolution, and open markets negates your Mercantilism.

Great people can be stacked for Golden ages in the late game, further boosting your research/ Production.

Nationalism, is another great late game civic, Emergency drafting, +2 / Barracks can help offset the "we demand Emancipation" CRAPPPP...and I end up building them in most if not all cities along with Granary, Courthouse, Forge.

Wealth City, I agree on Usage of Merchants, Especially under Rep, 1 Settled Merchant gives +6 gold and 1 FOOD, 2 Give +12 gold and 2 food allowing a 3rd Merchant to be employed for + 3 gold, ramp up with building (market, grocer, bank and wall street) for 200% and you've got 45 gold from 3 specialists and +9 beakers. Hammers you DON'T NEED, as this city PRODUCES WEALTH, GOLD, MONEY, CASH, COMMERCE ONLY. Shrines are a bonus, Corporations a definite addition.

National parks city, this is BRILLIANT for the specialist Economy, build it in a Tundra city, with LOTS of trees, and not much else. You only need enough food to grow the city, build lumber mills for production of the National park, science multiplier building and Oxford Theater (if you think its viable), once you have these, convert lumber mills to National Parks. For each CITIZEN you have to work a national park, it won't consume food. ITS A FREE SPECIALIST. If you have enough food to grow quickly enough, (irrigated corn, fish) you can easily gain 10 free specialists, Plus the additional ones who'll consume food. Makes those Treed tundra regions viable production/science centres.

 

[feralminded]

While I personally have seen some pretty stellar national park locations (3 fish, maybe 8-9 trees) ... the real issue is by the time you get to the relevant techs its a non-issue ... its just another city and won't come fully online until you're into the industrial age if not later. By that point in the game, at least for me, the game has progressed away from individual city micromanagement to vast civilization macromanagement. Its a shame because its a neat concept ... just it doesn't seem to much matter.

Its also a shame you only get to build one ... honestly if there was a limit on national parks based on map size it would make a lot more sense and be a lot more useful. Regardless for most of the good national park sites though you usually need sushi or cereal anyhow which definitely makes it a super-late game idea.

 

[zizzeus]

IPEX:

Thank you for your post. I understand how an extra intercontinental trade route can be worth 10 commerce and how the SoL gives an extra specialist. You will see in my guide that I mention this wonder explicitly, and always try to capture it if possible. I still don't think it is worth teching past nationalism to try to build it yourself, since it delays rifling and has very low trade value. Many AI's prioritize that pathway, and since I don't play industrious civs very often, odds are that I will just end up with a pile of gold anyway, and be forced to capture it years later. Might as well have rifles lined up to do that.

You have a city with 10 farms!?! Maybe I'd have 5 farms in my GP farm - maybe, if there were no farm animals or seafood around. But then I'd probably build it elsewhere. I don't think I've ever built more than 5 farms, that I haven't paved over. Biology is nice, but I don't think it's worth 5 specialists.

As to the UN single currency resolution (and Biology, and Corporations, and Custom houses), I rarely even see these buildings built. The article wasn't on how to manage late game economies and tactics, but rather how to win the liberalism/rifling race and go conquering colonial style. I'm not playing every game to try to win in the medieval period and get a high score, and rather enjoy late game tactics as well, but by this point if you're still in a specialist economy you will be left in the dust by mansa or gandhi. The whole idea behind running the SE is to dominate the world before the industrial age. If you're going to wait that long, you would have been better off with a different economic strategy. As a final caveat, I usually switch to state property once maintenance gets too high from newly acquired cities. Free market doesn't make any sense when 6 out of 7 other civs are running mercantilism, and you're at war with 2 of them. That's why you don't hear many people speaking Dutch these days, do you?

 

[Phoenician]

This is an amazing guide. The only thing I would disagree with is if that if I was not a spiritual civ and probably not going to found a religion than I would have a merchant specialist city instead of a priest specialist city.

I'll start running mercantilism instead of free market, I guess the free specialists are better than trade routes unless someone was putting a lot of focus on trade routes.

 

[obsolete]

but by this point if you're still in a specialist economy you will be left in the dust by mansa or gandhi. The whole idea behind running the SE is to dominate the world before the industrial age. If you're going to wait that long, you would have been better off with a different economic strategy.

Could you clarify on this? I start SE from the beginning, and never let go until it's over. Which often is up to the end of space-race.

 

[Yamps]

Could you clarify on this? I start SE from the beginning, and never let go until it's over. Which often is up to the end of space-race.

But you usually attack somebody before going to Space and play SSE/WE. Would you stick to (pure) SE and not SSE/WE in entirely peaceful space going game? No cottages, wonder spamming and great person settling? No research/wealth building?

There is a fun game going on btw, always peace and no tech trading game on Realms Beyond with Space and Diplo as only victory options. It's *only* Emperor, but it's interesting to compare different economy types in such playing ground.

 

[obsolete]

I only really attack when things like a culture-victory threaten me. Usually it is a problem with THEM attacking me. Anyhow, after reading this I decided to drop my war-plans in my Roose game, and continued with a peaceful space-race win.

 

[Iranon]

Liberalism can get you rather close to Biology... although admittedly I usually prefer the slight detour to Steel for knocking some heads.

State Property gives plenty of strong flatland improvements that we might not miss towns... but even boring old farms shouldn't be underestimated. Engineers aren't bad at all, Angkor-Wat-boosted priests or Kremlin-assisted whips are better.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

...but by this point if you're still in a specialist economy you will be left in the dust by mansa or gandhi. The whole idea behind running the SE is to dominate the world before the industrial age.

Seriously, where do people get this idea?