Regarding the "who's best" at science victories from Mesix (and in no way trying to hijack his thread or discussion) I have assembled one map that can be played identically by each of these civs (Korea, Babylon, and Maya).
1. Game settings are standard: Emperor, standard speed, no special settings. You can enable any combat settings as normal from the options menu.
2. Opponents and City States are the same for each game. They spawn in the exact same spots as well.
3. All resource locations are also identical, even later ones when revealed by tech completions. Legendary or abundant settings are not ticked but you have a fair amount of resources and terrain to reflect the difficulty.
4. Players are not required to play each game identically, strategy and paths are intended to play toward each civs strengths.
5. The map is designed to be favorable for all 3 civs by including a mountain and a coast to let each civ have access to the Observatory and for Korea to be able to use their Turtle Ship UU.
6. Each game should settle the capitol in the starting location. Any other cities can be settled as desired.
7. Because each game will be played on the same map, prior map knowledge will play a role in victory turn speeds but that is acceptable as every player has that advantage. Spoilers arent really going to be spoiling anything since everyone will have all the knowledge for each playthrough.
8. Two things are uncontrollable and can provide a small but less than measurable discrepancy in game play: Ancient Ruins and Barbarians. While everything can be set in place, I cannot guarantee what benefit a ruins will produce nor can i guarantee how/where a barb hut will spawn. This is the only variable in the game other than AI actions and play style.
9. This is unlike any of the other challenges in that customization is discouraged. I have tested each map to make sure they are identical. I cannot guarantee there are no bugs or conflicts based on your computer or any mods. I would prefer people not load their mods but since this is informal I am not going to be able to check saves or find if people are cheating/exploiting or reloading. Games can be restart and played many times, but reloads are still frowned upon.
I am trusting the community's genuine desire to test this out.
Okay, here are the start saves.
View attachment SciTestNebuch_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save
View attachment SciTestSejong_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save
View attachment SciTestPacal_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save
This challenge isn't for everyone. It means playing through the same map and VC a minimum of 3 times (4 really if you include an initial playthrough just to see the map). It can feel tedious. It also means you should be well-versed in multiple play styles (tall, wide, etc) to say the results are decent enough. I haven't don't this myself because I'm most accustomed to Babylon and have played Maya the least. I will play through all of them to report my results, but wide is not my best play style so I will already say that my results will be less than accurate.
I dont think you can actually declare a "winner" based on this alone, if at all. But the debate itself is fun if nothing else.
If there is a decent enough reaction to this, I intend to try and build a deity save for each of these to test the really good players. I personally feel many strengths/weaknesses reveal themselves better at deity. But I won't until I know how to create deity difficulty starts with appropriate advantages based on how the map has to be made. Each civ has to have the right amount of units to reflect an actual deity start and Im not sure exactly what those are.
If there are any maps that wont load, post in here if you can. They have all worked for me so far.
1. Game settings are standard: Emperor, standard speed, no special settings. You can enable any combat settings as normal from the options menu.
2. Opponents and City States are the same for each game. They spawn in the exact same spots as well.
3. All resource locations are also identical, even later ones when revealed by tech completions. Legendary or abundant settings are not ticked but you have a fair amount of resources and terrain to reflect the difficulty.
4. Players are not required to play each game identically, strategy and paths are intended to play toward each civs strengths.
5. The map is designed to be favorable for all 3 civs by including a mountain and a coast to let each civ have access to the Observatory and for Korea to be able to use their Turtle Ship UU.
6. Each game should settle the capitol in the starting location. Any other cities can be settled as desired.
7. Because each game will be played on the same map, prior map knowledge will play a role in victory turn speeds but that is acceptable as every player has that advantage. Spoilers arent really going to be spoiling anything since everyone will have all the knowledge for each playthrough.
8. Two things are uncontrollable and can provide a small but less than measurable discrepancy in game play: Ancient Ruins and Barbarians. While everything can be set in place, I cannot guarantee what benefit a ruins will produce nor can i guarantee how/where a barb hut will spawn. This is the only variable in the game other than AI actions and play style.
9. This is unlike any of the other challenges in that customization is discouraged. I have tested each map to make sure they are identical. I cannot guarantee there are no bugs or conflicts based on your computer or any mods. I would prefer people not load their mods but since this is informal I am not going to be able to check saves or find if people are cheating/exploiting or reloading. Games can be restart and played many times, but reloads are still frowned upon.
I am trusting the community's genuine desire to test this out.
Okay, here are the start saves.
View attachment SciTestNebuch_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save
View attachment SciTestSejong_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save
View attachment SciTestPacal_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save
This challenge isn't for everyone. It means playing through the same map and VC a minimum of 3 times (4 really if you include an initial playthrough just to see the map). It can feel tedious. It also means you should be well-versed in multiple play styles (tall, wide, etc) to say the results are decent enough. I haven't don't this myself because I'm most accustomed to Babylon and have played Maya the least. I will play through all of them to report my results, but wide is not my best play style so I will already say that my results will be less than accurate.
I dont think you can actually declare a "winner" based on this alone, if at all. But the debate itself is fun if nothing else.
If there is a decent enough reaction to this, I intend to try and build a deity save for each of these to test the really good players. I personally feel many strengths/weaknesses reveal themselves better at deity. But I won't until I know how to create deity difficulty starts with appropriate advantages based on how the map has to be made. Each civ has to have the right amount of units to reflect an actual deity start and Im not sure exactly what those are.
If there are any maps that wont load, post in here if you can. They have all worked for me so far.
, Messenger of the Gods is pretty worthless.
