1234567890
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2006
- Messages
- 182
And the WH players would hire frostlings in these dens
-
Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
Archos: Spiders seem weak
- Thread starter WarKirby
- Start date
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
It's actually Kohan 2: Kings of War, and it's mentioned for the first pack he released, but not the second. Probably should be.
Played a MP game of J last night.
6 AI (3 teams of 2), 2 Humans (on a team)
I tried Archos.
I have yet to get and hold more than 3 cities so spiders are coming slowly. (We are NOT doing well)
Baby spiders are upgrading more often. I think I am 3 for 4.
Sacrificing the spiders hurts early but benefits are nice. Each sacrificed spider adds +1 free promotion BEFORE exp is applied. So with Form of the Titan and Apprentice, after sacrificing 2 high level spiders my new spiders were Combat 3 and 4/5 exp, so they only needed 1 exp to get another promo.
I SWEAR early my baby spiders were born with Combat 1 from my Civ trait, but after sacrificing a spider I seemed to no longer get that free combat promo, I had to "buy" it with my free upgrade on new spiders.
- I tried the sword spider, not too shabby.
- I love the Rhagodessa the best so far.
- The venum spider seemed to get the ranged skill and ability, but it does not have a button to allow me to make a ranged attack (goblin archers I hired had the same issue, archers I build in a city worked fine).
- Textus spider promo text when you hover over it only mentions that it blocks Textus, it doesn't say anything about what it does for you. (I really still haven't figured out what slow does after I got it either but didn't try it much)
- I did not try the Water Spider, not too much use for it on my pangea game. I can see it being useful in certain situations though.
Sacrifice button is PINK!!!! and called sacrifice slave. also it says level 4 or higher, but I could never sacrifice a level 4 spider, I had to wait till level 5.
All in all I am enjoying the changes.
6 AI (3 teams of 2), 2 Humans (on a team)
I tried Archos.
I have yet to get and hold more than 3 cities so spiders are coming slowly. (We are NOT doing well)
Baby spiders are upgrading more often. I think I am 3 for 4.
Sacrificing the spiders hurts early but benefits are nice. Each sacrificed spider adds +1 free promotion BEFORE exp is applied. So with Form of the Titan and Apprentice, after sacrificing 2 high level spiders my new spiders were Combat 3 and 4/5 exp, so they only needed 1 exp to get another promo.
I SWEAR early my baby spiders were born with Combat 1 from my Civ trait, but after sacrificing a spider I seemed to no longer get that free combat promo, I had to "buy" it with my free upgrade on new spiders.
- I tried the sword spider, not too shabby.
- I love the Rhagodessa the best so far.
- The venum spider seemed to get the ranged skill and ability, but it does not have a button to allow me to make a ranged attack (goblin archers I hired had the same issue, archers I build in a city worked fine).
- Textus spider promo text when you hover over it only mentions that it blocks Textus, it doesn't say anything about what it does for you. (I really still haven't figured out what slow does after I got it either but didn't try it much)
- I did not try the Water Spider, not too much use for it on my pangea game. I can see it being useful in certain situations though.
Sacrifice button is PINK!!!! and called sacrifice slave. also it says level 4 or higher, but I could never sacrifice a level 4 spider, I had to wait till level 5.
All in all I am enjoying the changes.
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
Thanks - have sorted out the artwork and name. Level 4 is correct for the first sacrifice - I've corrected the Python to match. Future sacrifices require higher levels, but if you mouseover the Broodchamber in the Nest, you can see what level is required next.
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
Different causes for each - Goblins are easy to fix, not sure on the spiders yet, but am looking at it...
Rystic
Turtle Wizard
For those spider den models... could they be added as an improvement for Archos workers? Something that grows over time when worked, like
Den -> Nest -> Colony
It'd really make the Archos land look infested with spiders. They could increase the number of spiders you're allowed (maybe even act as a spawn other than Mother's Nest), or you could give Mother an ability to pop spiders from them, in exchange for them going back down to dens, or something.
Den -> Nest -> Colony
It'd really make the Archos land look infested with spiders. They could increase the number of spiders you're allowed (maybe even act as a spawn other than Mother's Nest), or you could give Mother an ability to pop spiders from them, in exchange for them going back down to dens, or something.
1234567890
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2006
- Messages
- 182
Spiders riders would be great... Scouts who defeat Spiders would become riders...
Iceciro
Special Ability: Decimate
Inquisitor is doing some really, really nasty things to a few of the AIs in one of our beta games of Fall Flat (I haven't touched the Archos at all, so that's still vanilla.) They don't know what to do about a Strength V Sword spider with HN eating all their workers.
It's more of a problem with the AI and HN units, than the Archos, but... a problem to be noted, assuredly.
It's more of a problem with the AI and HN units, than the Archos, but... a problem to be noted, assuredly.
Deon
Lt. of Mordor
Yeah I've got most my archos workers from other tribes, usually you can hide next to their borders and eventually a single worker comes to the range and I get it (it's cool that the spider remains in my borders, but why don't the spider go to the place of a captured worker?).
Inquizitor
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2009
- Messages
- 16
Here are my thoughts to further expand on the Beta game I'm playing of Fall Flat:
Bugs: When you promote to Venomous spiders the Textus promotion still appears. I have Patch J
The Venumous spiders do not have the ranged attack button (AS reported earlier)
Observations: The spawn rate for Spiders seems a little high to me. IT kinda bugs me primarally because of the next obseration.
The Spiders seem weak. Any new spider I get now I just don't know what to do with. They are useless to me. These things were great for Blitzing over the Chizlev at the start but against Clan Axmen they are melting. I feel like I've stalled out. This is just how they feel at a glance. More play testing is needed and we should be continuing that game tonight.
The Spiders are very limited in what they can do. They don't get access to most promotions. This actually makes them worse than most other built up units over time. I believe the promotion trees should be opened up somewhat for the Spiders. Perhaps at a certain tech or some sort of new Ritual that awakens them. A ritual at Feral bond might even be more Ideal so that they don't become overpowers in the early game. Alternatively maybe you could open up the promotion trees when hidden nationality is turned off
Missing Promotions. I switched to Guardian of the leaves but woodsman 2 was not available to take while woodsman 1 was. Bug? I intend to grab horseback riding for the mobility as well. I don't know if it will unlock the promotion for spiders or not.
The bloodlines
Weavers: Eh. The slow is really weak. While the immobilize from the advanced weavers ,while nice, is highly situational. The Weavers seem to lack something.
Venom: Very nice units, especially once the ranged bug is fixed.
Sword spiders: I've not played with these much and I don't know what the second promotion gives them. The first promotion seems solid though. a decent combat choice all around.
Water spiders: The only one I started down this path got eaten by a wild giant spider so I didn't get to play with it much. If I read the description right the first promotion gives them commando which can lead to some interesting scenarios with hidden spiders. I think the second promotion gives the water walking ability which will be weird but interesting.
The other ones: I didn't grab this spider bloodline until late mainly because I have no use for a blitz unit that only has one movement. I don't know what the second promotion is but I believe that the first promotions should give a movement increase if you are giving it Blitz anyway.
Other mechanics.
I honestly haven't found many of them. The promotion to feed mother, while funny, seems pointless. Is there some reward for doing this that isn't stated? Increased chance for a spider spawn?
I have no idea how to eat a food resource tile with a giant spider. No option to do so ever comes up.
It was mentioned a few posts ago that I can sacrifice spiders for some unknown benefit. What is this? At a glance it seems like I can give my spiders a free promotion out of the box but the spiders really don't have man promotions to choose to begin with. Sacrificing a promoted level 4 spider just so my next spider can have a head start and cap out for lack of promotions doesn't seem to be a good investment to me. Again. I've not found theis mechanic so I may be misunderstanding what it does.
New spiders do not have the Civ trait abilities nor do they benefit from civic +exp traits.
Currently I am moving towards Feral bond in the game. I'm hoping this will open up some new possibilities for the Archos. I am currently halfway through animal handling. I'll keep you guys posted on my thoughts.
One other oddity. The barbarian civ trait for the Archos seems out of place.
Bugs: When you promote to Venomous spiders the Textus promotion still appears. I have Patch J
The Venumous spiders do not have the ranged attack button (AS reported earlier)
Observations: The spawn rate for Spiders seems a little high to me. IT kinda bugs me primarally because of the next obseration.
The Spiders seem weak. Any new spider I get now I just don't know what to do with. They are useless to me. These things were great for Blitzing over the Chizlev at the start but against Clan Axmen they are melting. I feel like I've stalled out. This is just how they feel at a glance. More play testing is needed and we should be continuing that game tonight.
The Spiders are very limited in what they can do. They don't get access to most promotions. This actually makes them worse than most other built up units over time. I believe the promotion trees should be opened up somewhat for the Spiders. Perhaps at a certain tech or some sort of new Ritual that awakens them. A ritual at Feral bond might even be more Ideal so that they don't become overpowers in the early game. Alternatively maybe you could open up the promotion trees when hidden nationality is turned off
Missing Promotions. I switched to Guardian of the leaves but woodsman 2 was not available to take while woodsman 1 was. Bug? I intend to grab horseback riding for the mobility as well. I don't know if it will unlock the promotion for spiders or not.
The bloodlines
Weavers: Eh. The slow is really weak. While the immobilize from the advanced weavers ,while nice, is highly situational. The Weavers seem to lack something.
Venom: Very nice units, especially once the ranged bug is fixed.
Sword spiders: I've not played with these much and I don't know what the second promotion gives them. The first promotion seems solid though. a decent combat choice all around.
Water spiders: The only one I started down this path got eaten by a wild giant spider so I didn't get to play with it much. If I read the description right the first promotion gives them commando which can lead to some interesting scenarios with hidden spiders. I think the second promotion gives the water walking ability which will be weird but interesting.
The other ones: I didn't grab this spider bloodline until late mainly because I have no use for a blitz unit that only has one movement. I don't know what the second promotion is but I believe that the first promotions should give a movement increase if you are giving it Blitz anyway.
Other mechanics.
I honestly haven't found many of them. The promotion to feed mother, while funny, seems pointless. Is there some reward for doing this that isn't stated? Increased chance for a spider spawn?
I have no idea how to eat a food resource tile with a giant spider. No option to do so ever comes up.
It was mentioned a few posts ago that I can sacrifice spiders for some unknown benefit. What is this? At a glance it seems like I can give my spiders a free promotion out of the box but the spiders really don't have man promotions to choose to begin with. Sacrificing a promoted level 4 spider just so my next spider can have a head start and cap out for lack of promotions doesn't seem to be a good investment to me. Again. I've not found theis mechanic so I may be misunderstanding what it does.
New spiders do not have the Civ trait abilities nor do they benefit from civic +exp traits.
Currently I am moving towards Feral bond in the game. I'm hoping this will open up some new possibilities for the Archos. I am currently halfway through animal handling. I'll keep you guys posted on my thoughts.
One other oddity. The barbarian civ trait for the Archos seems out of place.
The water spiders are a pretty nifty thing. All those little islands that have barbs on em, free xp for your HN water walking spider. Get one of those with combat V and city raider III, and laugh as the sea spiders destroy all! Unfortunately, I don't see any more promotions at the time, but meh, cant win em all.
As for sacrificing spiders, its not a bad idea. When you get to where those giant spiders spawn from the nest with the strong promotion and get 2 or 3 free promotions, plus another promotion for your civics, you have a force to be reckoned with in the early/early-mid game. The not having your civ traits though, IS kind of annoying, but meh, my spiders are eating the dark elf's hunters right now. But once they get rangers, it's probably GG for them.
As for sacrificing spiders, its not a bad idea. When you get to where those giant spiders spawn from the nest with the strong promotion and get 2 or 3 free promotions, plus another promotion for your civics, you have a force to be reckoned with in the early/early-mid game. The not having your civ traits though, IS kind of annoying, but meh, my spiders are eating the dark elf's hunters right now. But once they get rangers, it's probably GG for them.
I will answer what I can...
I kinda agree
Definitely agree
I believe 2nd promo gave +1 attack, as I had a 6/5 spider. Add to the extra % the 1st promo gave and it wasn't too bad. Unfortunatly mine got eaten by a wild sword spider bastagefromhell!!! but I digress
Give this one a look. It was my favorite. It does get +1 movement as well as a cannibalize like ability (15%/combat)
Feed the mother / sacrifice is the same thing.
I think what you missed here is that EVERY new spider after you sacrifice gets a free promotion BEFORE exp kicks in. When yu sacrafice your 2nd spider they get TWO free promos... 3rd = THREE free promos... 4th = FOUR free promos. So once you have sacrificed 4 spiders to the brood, all new spiders begin with 4 promotions... efectivly Combat 4 out of the gate. THEN you get exp, I had "Form of the Titan" and Apprentice Civ so mine were also starting with 4 exp, which meant they got ANOTHER promotion from that.
Personally I agree with you on the lack of promotions. i would love to see at least some additional promotions possible. Even just opening up all the drill line would add another 5 promotions possible. Maybe ontop of those each line could get...
Venom = The +archer and or Defensive strike promos?
Textus = Marksman??
Sword = Commando
Rhagodessa = Mobility
Water = okay I have no idea
Having a tech requirement on some of the promotions and or spider types may be appropriate.
I got the feed option when I was on pigs in my own culture.
My spiders definitely got exp from civs, but did not get trait promotions
Feral bond opens up your Hero. Mother makes a BIG difference. Yeah I would think They should start animal ally instead of Savage ally now that those are separate.
I kinda agree
Definitely agree
I believe 2nd promo gave +1 attack, as I had a 6/5 spider. Add to the extra % the 1st promo gave and it wasn't too bad. Unfortunatly mine got eaten by a wild sword spider bastagefromhell!!! but I digress
Give this one a look. It was my favorite. It does get +1 movement as well as a cannibalize like ability (15%/combat)
Feed the mother / sacrifice is the same thing.
I think what you missed here is that EVERY new spider after you sacrifice gets a free promotion BEFORE exp kicks in. When yu sacrafice your 2nd spider they get TWO free promos... 3rd = THREE free promos... 4th = FOUR free promos. So once you have sacrificed 4 spiders to the brood, all new spiders begin with 4 promotions... efectivly Combat 4 out of the gate. THEN you get exp, I had "Form of the Titan" and Apprentice Civ so mine were also starting with 4 exp, which meant they got ANOTHER promotion from that.
Personally I agree with you on the lack of promotions. i would love to see at least some additional promotions possible. Even just opening up all the drill line would add another 5 promotions possible. Maybe ontop of those each line could get...
Venom = The +archer and or Defensive strike promos?
Textus = Marksman??
Sword = Commando
Rhagodessa = Mobility
Water = okay I have no idea
Having a tech requirement on some of the promotions and or spider types may be appropriate.
I got the feed option when I was on pigs in my own culture.
My spiders definitely got exp from civs, but did not get trait promotions
Feral bond opens up your Hero. Mother makes a BIG difference. Yeah I would think They should start animal ally instead of Savage ally now that those are separate.
Tarquelne
Follower of Tytalus
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2001
- Messages
- 3,718
I was thinking about that ability this morning and already put in some changes: First, it's now an "ability," so those annoying Amurites can't stop you from chowing down. Secondly, and more importantly, the button will now show up (greyed out) even when you're not on a tile where you can set up a Minor Brood. Now that the buttons there people can see the mouse-over help and know to what to look up in the 'pedia.
And, having said that, I'll add a 'pedia entry too.
WarKirby
Arty person
This isn't a bug, perhaps more of an oversight.
Woodsman II is only available to Recon and beast units. Spiders for some reason, are animals, not beasts. So they can't lkearn it.
I found that annoying personally, and I tweaked it to be more widely available.
